Hiker Commits Murder-Suicide Rather Than Be Killed By The Elements.

originally posted by: CharlesT

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: CharlesT
The title says it all, Murder-Suicide......

But rescuers eventually found them by following their trail of candy wrappers, and water bottles. Doesn't sound like they went to the Park for that reason...but you never know.

Who said it was premeditated? It could have been a reaction to uncontrollable frustration that set him over the edge of coping with the situation with rationality.

A couple of posters earlier in the thread speculated that the murder-suicide was pre-mediated. But the authorities and the medical examiner feel that it was a matter of ending the suffering...like Dr. Kevorkian used to do with the terminally ill.

originally posted by: carewemust
Don't National Parks have cell phone towers?

Have any of you ever been so miserable and close to death, that you felt like stopping the suffering by committing suicide? I find it hard to imagine losing hope to the point where you'd kill your mate/friend, and then yourself.

yes they do have cell towers but only in the main areas of the parks. and even then it can be sketchy. Some of these parks are vast areas and like Joshua Tree in harsh climates

In that kind of situation, there is no way, no way, i'm going out like that. Between all the scouting, and upbringing, im fighting till the bitter end. Some people are wired differently.

This even is tragic, but its a long list of deaths in National parks we have had this year. People think that these parks are basically an extension of the city and if they get into trouble help is a meer phone call away.

We recently made a trip through Death Valley to spot aircraft at Rainbow Canyon. It was ONE day in Death Valley with a bit of trekking off the beaten path on some dirt roads to different areas. We went in prepared with 20 gallons of water (two of us), food, supplies, signaling equipment, etc. Basically an expanded Bug out bag for each of us. AWD vehicle, come alongs to help if we get stuck, etc. We spent 5 hours driving the seriously bad road / trail to the playa racetrack and were staggered to find people in their rental Camary with ZERO gear. 114 and windy. 4 people and they had 5 750ml bottles of water in various stages of consumption and in shorts and T-SHirts. If they got stuck they had NO water AND nothing to help with the super cold nights. We shared some cold water with them, and basically had to talk them OUT of staying for the sunset before they began the drive back so we could see. We went first and stayed with them till we got to the road.

The point is people lack basic wilderness survival and basic equipment, and have no plan other than GPS and the cell phone. I'm shocked that this does not happen more often

originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: carewemust
Don't National Parks have cell phone towers?

We recently made a trip through Death Valley to spot aircraft at Rainbow Canyon. It was ONE day in Death Valley with a bit of trekking off the beaten path on some dirt roads to different areas. We went in prepared with 20 gallons of water (two of us), food, supplies, signaling equipment, etc. Basically an expanded Bug out bag for each of us. AWD vehicle, come alongs to help if we get stuck, etc. We spent 5 hours driving the seriously bad road / trail to the playa racetrack and were staggered to find people in their rental Camary with ZERO gear. 114 and windy. 4 people and they had 5 750ml bottles of water in various stages of consumption and in shorts and T-SHirts. If they got stuck they had NO water AND nothing to help with the super cold nights. We shared some cold water with them, and basically had to talk them OUT of staying for the sunset before they began the drive back so we could see. We went first and stayed with them till we got to the road.

The point is people lack basic wilderness survival and basic equipment, and have no plan other than GPS and the cell phone. I'm shocked that this does not happen more often

I live outside the navy base at china lake and have found a number of morons like the ones you found.

I also found one old guy setting in his truck that had broke down a week before and towed him back to town.
Broke down for a week but he still had over 20 gallons of water and food for at least another week in his truck.
like me he was a desert survivor that understood what it takes traveling the back trails in the calif desert.

originally posted by: Raxoxane
a reply to: Guyfriday

Ya i was wondering myself,maybe it was a murder/suicide pact,and that's where they decided to opt out of this incarnation,in the beautiful wilderness?

Beautiful wilderness? Lol this is no wilderness this a freaking HOT DESERT 120F when they went missing. No water, no shade

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: abeverage
First as it has been mentioned it was a National Park

2nd it was a National Park

3rd it was a National Park....now that I got that out of the way Outside Magazine why 1,600 people went missing without a trace in our National Parks



Missing 411

When you look at how the media is portraying how desperate they were and how no foul play was found...it is to cover what really happened to this couple.

1st The park is massive.

2nd There is no cell service.

3rd They ran out of water.

4th It's a desert.

5th They got lost.

6th IT'S A DESERT!

Does everything have to be a conspiracy? Do yourself a favor and Google how long it takes someone to die of exposure in the desert when they have no water. Hint? Its not even days.

Actually you do know you are on ATS...right?...Wait now I am confused we are talking about a odd death of hikers on a conspiracy site? Right? Do yourself a favor and find a different forum if you do not like a conspiracy or Troll someplace else cause are you on ATS...

I backpack often and live in a desert, I know exactly how long it takes. Oh and hint: 4 types of hallucinogenic drugs at the house they had rented...

Hint: you always believe what the media tells you?

Incredibly sad and I can't imagine finding myself in that place.
Three months is a long freaking time to be out there!
Reading that she may have fallen (?) and suffered a head injury sort of brings it around into focus, for me. We don't know, yet, the extent of that injury or when she suffered it. There could have been massive bleeding both externally or internally. It's good that the family has closure,, so many families of the missing never will.
Also, I found this article with some good information about the Maze loop in particular. I can't help but think that perhaps inexperience along with crucial mistakes led to this horrible tragedy. Most folks, apparently, do not go hiking after end of May/June again until the fall.

The Park has added signage since then, but still it is not the most obvious trail in the world. A big portion of that is due to the natural environment. This is a desert that’s full of sand and rocks. Those are the worst two elements to have when it comes leaving well-marked trails, as cairns tend to blow over and blazes can’t really be rooted into anything. Joshua Tree likes to keep the trail somewhat obscure as well, so there aren’t posts every 100 feet telling you which way to turn. What we’re saying is be aware, have a map, and let the rangers know you’re going for a hike in the Maze. It’s called that for a reason.

It is important to bring a map, compass, and have a general understanding of the land before embarking on your trip. Make sure to follow cairns where you can (stacked rocks or other objects), though make sure you are able to deduce a man-made cairn from a natural rock formation. Water is essential in Joshua Tree, and you should not leave without a day’s supply.

backpackers.com...

originally posted by: abeverage

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: abeverage
First as it has been mentioned it was a National Park

2nd it was a National Park

3rd it was a National Park....now that I got that out of the way Outside Magazine why 1,600 people went missing without a trace in our National Parks



Missing 411

When you look at how the media is portraying how desperate they were and how no foul play was found...it is to cover what really happened to this couple.

1st The park is massive.

2nd There is no cell service.

3rd They ran out of water.

4th It's a desert.

5th They got lost.

6th IT'S A DESERT!

Does everything have to be a conspiracy? Do yourself a favor and Google how long it takes someone to die of exposure in the desert when they have no water. Hint? Its not even days.

Actually you do know you are on ATS...right?...Wait now I am confused we are talking about a odd death of hikers on a conspiracy site? Right? Do yourself a favor and find a different forum if you do not like a conspiracy or Troll someplace else cause are you on ATS...

I backpack often and live in a desert, I know exactly how long it takes. Oh and hint: 4 types of hallucinogenic drugs at the house they had rented...

Hint: you always believe what the media tells you?

Ok, so we know YOU know how to prepare for a desert trek? These people obviously did not. Or they simply did not plan on getting lost. My original point stands.

Yours is what? That I must believe everything is a conspiracy because I'm on AT'S? I can't debunk any nonsense people like you throw out there?

Puhlease. I'll take logic over blind adherence to an 'everything is a conspiracy, they are out to get me' mindset.

And id love for you to explain to me what was odd about their deaths? Hallucinogenic seem to only add to the theory they were in over their heads. Seems pretty cut and dried to me. And so you know it's only hours to die in the desert when exposed without water, right?

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: carewemust


I thought it was apparent, everyday I hope I die. You asked in Op if anyone has ever been so miserable that they felt like ending it, I said yes everyday

With that question, I was referring to being caught in a once-in-a-lifetime situation, like lost in a desert, lost at sea, etc..

But I'm glad that you're not following through on the urge to end your life, NorHoc. As long as you're alive, there's the potential for that desire/urge to go away.

Yeah! Hang in there Norhoc!! I've seen you chime in so many times here in my years of lurking, can't forget your starfleet engineer patch.

I own a copy of the official starfleet technical manual.... maybe you can put in a good word for me yea?

Look bro I've been there too. It can get allot better. And just think, someone somewhere has it worse.

Hope that helps.

-Driver

a reply to: nightbringr

You're right I often debunk a theory if I see that it is illogical or not mysterious or lacking facts...I am hoping though you will look at the amount of people that die mysteriously or disappear within our national parks. People who actually are good hikers. But I also do not blindly believe the "official story" on anything these days...

What piqued my interest is he had a weapon which is inconstant to doing a day hike. So maybe there was intent to do the murder/suicide before they set out, it seemed odd...

then there is the reporting that doesn't mention the drugs just the nice calm embrace of murder/suicide

I went back to the original investigation that took place a few months prior.

And yes I do realize 3 days...not hours even in the hottest of deserts will lead to death.

originally posted by: abeverage
a reply to: nightbringr

You're right I often debunk a theory if I see that it is illogical or not mysterious or lacking facts...I am hoping though you will look at the amount of people that die mysteriously or disappear within our national parks. People who actually are good hikers. But I also do not blindly believe the "official story" on anything these days...

What piqued my interest is he had a weapon which is inconstant to doing a day hike. So maybe there was intent to do the murder/suicide before they set out, it seemed odd...

then there is the reporting that doesn't mention the drugs just the nice calm embrace of murder/suicide

I went back to the original investigation that took place a few months prior.

And yes I do realize 3 days...not hours even in the hottest of deserts will lead to death.

It's hours. People die often simply from being left in a hot car. They need not exceed 50 degrees. Without water dehydration sets in almost immediately and death soon after. It's hours.

And I'm sorry I don't see how the gun makes a difference. Many in the US own firearms and carry them wherever they go. Hell, he might have wanted to fire a few off or teach his GF to shoot. Too many possibilities that DON'T involve a conspiracy.

Do yourself a favour and read up on the rule of three, so you don't end up like them:

www.backcountrychronicles.com/wilderness-survival-rules-of-3/

You will die within three hours in the desert with no water or shelter. Don't believe me? Google it. Many, many sites will confirm this age old truth.

originally posted by: norhoc
Hell, I feel like ending it on a daily basis.

I don't quite get suicidal ideation. If the world is bugging me, I want to stick around as long as I can to pay it back. So I guess I'm more of a homicide than a suicide kinda guy.

a reply to: carewemustso i am 47 and not all that fit but i can cover 30 + miles at night with out sun beating on me and where i live if you in park firing a gun out a season you can expect a game warden popping upshortly.
reminds me of a couple who called 911 when they got lost in the park took a whole bunch of volunteers about 3 hours to find them turns out they called from a smart fone that had gps on it and were a few hundred yards from a highway.. when rescue squad saw they had a gps on fone they sent a 12 grand bill to morons.

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: carewemustso i am 47 and not all that fit but i can cover 30 + miles at night with out sun beating on me and where i live if you in park firing a gun out a season you can expect a game warden popping upshortly.

reminds me of a couple who called 911 when they got lost in the park took a whole bunch of volunteers about 3 hours to find them turns out they called from a smart fone that had gps on it and were a few hundred yards from a highway.. when rescue squad saw they had a gps on fone they sent a 12 grand bill to morons.

Congrats on your fitness! That couple got lost and still received a $12,000 bill from authorities?