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Just So We're Straight — Gen. Kelly Was Wrong

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posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:11 PM
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Back to the subject matter.


I too use to respect Kelly. But it has lessened in my mind. And he should apologize.

That would make him a hero, and here’s why.

Americans always, other than murder and rape, forgive people when they make mistakes.

Kelly apologizing sincerely over his errors here, would not only serve himself, but show Trump how to behave.

Kelly, though, will not apologize because Trump would then fire him


edit on 21-10-2017 by Willtell because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

So what? I mean, think about it? Why is it not ok for him to say that but it is ok for her to say the POTUS has mental issues? or needs to be impeached? They should all be held to the same standard if you make one.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66


Kelly could have


Yes, he could have.


That's not what he did, however.


No, he didn't.


that is NOT WHAT NEEDED TO HAPPEN


No, it isn't.

Like I said, he is caught between a rock and hard place, imo.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Really? Tell me how? Because I pointed out how racist people think? How people should not see color? How does that make me lose credibility? Seriously Gryph?



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker


Both you, yourself, and the OP claims reading 'transcripts'. I find that laughable. I still believe neither of you have watched Kelly's speech whatsoever. It is hugely in contradiction to your claims as to suggest alternate universes are in play. I mean that 100% and is an equally honest comment.


I watched the press briefing live actually. I provided the relevant portion of the transcript in case people forgot or hadn't watched Gen. Kelly giving his statements.


The tape of Trump making that call, or a similar one to another parent, I'm not sure which it is, is in the finest tradition set by anyone ever in a similar call. Period.


You're referring to the call to the widow of Staff Sgt. Mark R. De Alencar, Natasha De Alencar. I heard it and I thought Trump expressed himself well and Mrs. De Alencar was indeed thankful for the call.

That has little to do with the call to Myeshia Johnson and her perception which apparently means very little to many people having this debate as far as I can tell. What's important appears to be how Gen. Kelly feels and how Natasha De Alencar felt after speaking to the President when he called her about her husband.

I've consistently allowed for the distinct possibility (and what I feel is most likely to be the case) that President Trump had every intention of being sensitive and respectful. I believe Gen. Kelly when he says that Trump's call was influenced by his advice.

In fact, as I said right in this thread, my opinion is it was likely a miscommunication.

But if that's how she felt, that's how she felt. Kelly could have just as easily come out and said that the President was operating on advice that he'd given and that it was a miscommunication. That's not what happened though. What happened was how the widow felt about the call was completely disregarded and a strategy of attacking Rep. Wilson was undertaken instead.

That's unfortunate. And to think, this entire debacle started with the President trying to politicize this solemn act performed by many presidents, including his predecessors. Even now, you want to overlook that too.
edit on 2017-10-21 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Okay. Well you said a whole lot of completely irrelevant things again, but I'll do my best to respond.


His advice to Trump-which I'm sure was in response to Trump asking him for advice- was to not phone as nothing would improve how she would feel.


Yea, I know. I've watched his press conference.


My gut tightened on his personal loss and the honest response he gave.


You shoulda been around when his son was killed. I was.


The tape of Trump making that call, or a similar one to another parent, I'm not sure which it is, is in the finest tradition set by anyone ever in a similar call.


I thought that call was great, and have never said otherwise.


Both you, yourself, and the OP claims reading 'transcripts'.


I claimed to "reading transcripts?" When did I do that?


I still believe neither of you have watched Kelly's speech whatsoever.


I believe you have a very loose grip on reality and a substantial reading comprehension issue. It is what it is.


your claims as to suggest alternate universes are in play.


What the actual # are you even talking about? I mean that 100% and completely honestly.


Lastly, you say 'half cocked'. More accurate would be FULLY cocked. I believe you have no idea how many other also feel similarly. I have looked for ways to achieve 'an agreement to disagree'. 10th Amendment. Dissolving the union into like groups. Anything to avoid the potential of revolt or civil war.


Cool.



After this....I almost looked foreward to finishing this one way or another.(If you get my drift)


I don't, but then again I tend to say what I mean rather than try to imply things.


That is the degree of sheer, cold rage that is building at the grass root level, rightly or wrongly.....Really.


I'm sorry you're so triggered by opposing viewpoints that you're driven to rage. That's pretty unhealthy.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardianhow can you even reply to that moron



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Gryphon66

So what? I mean, think about it? Why is it not ok for him to say that but it is ok for her to say the POTUS has mental issues? or needs to be impeached? They should all be held to the same standard if you make one.


I'm really, really trying to put the obnoxious phrasing of your last comment out of my mind; that was beneath you, and you should be ashamed. I have always considered you a cut-above the typical Trump cultist here, but the bit about a Black woman "shining their shoes" is repulsive and if sneaking that in to a post represents who you really are, please, ignore me and my posts in the future.

However, to the rest of your comment ... it is obvious that Donald Trump does have mental issues to many Americans. I believe that he's in the early to mid stages of Alzheimer's, and I have hard facts to base that belief upon. Notably, that doesn't make me happy, it makes me very sad for him, his family and the American people.

However, a President puts himself in the position to be criticized. If Congresswoman Wilson's comments are unfair, she will be judged as such. When General Kelly, however, comes to the White House podium and makes a dishonest and insulting attack on a sitting member of the Legislative Branch, that puts it in a different category.

Or is blatant deceit from the White House just generally accepted in your mind.


edit on 21-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:23 PM
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A Solution here would be Trump calling up the family (maybe get Kelly in on the call) privately not on CNN or Fox, and apologizing for any misperceptions. Then having a human conversation with the poor grieving lady.


Then if the phone call turns out all right both parties announce that the misperception has been cleared up and Trump goes to the brave young mans funeral, or invites her to the white house for a cup of tea.

That probably won’t happen. It’s not in Trump’s nature to do that.


Obama did something like that when he invited those two guys over for beers after that racial mishap up in Boston.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




As I write this, the top thread on ATS is WH Chief of Staff Kelly rips apart Congresswoman Rep. Frederica Wilson at Press Conference.



Wow, jealous much?



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Trump doesn't apologize because he doesn't make mistakes.

Well, except that one time when he was caught bragging about sexually abusing women.

Trump, good Christian man that he is, doesn't even have to ask forgiveness from God.

Even as a non-theist .... THAT gave me pause for a minute.
edit on 21-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




"highly decorated"

I'm thinking more "christmas tree" decorated



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian


What I actually find funny, and disturbing, is Sarah Sanders saying that it was inappropriate to question a 4 Star General, right after he was caught in a bald face lie, defending a liar.

First, Kelly is Chief of Staff, not serving the role of an any starred general. Secondly, does Sanders think John Kelly's position is somehow more "sacred" and beyond reproach than the President of the Untied States, who's position she continually has to answer for? If we can't question a 4 star general, can we question a Supreme Court Judge?

Sarah Sanders, the press are not in the military, they are civilians like most of us, and don't have to blindly obey and accept government's supposed moral authority.

Lastly, was the fact that Kelly ended his presser, setting a rule that only those who had served, or closely knew Gold Star Families, were qualified to ask him questions.

In the meantime, they're all defending a bone spur, drafter dodger who has a record of attacking POWs, Gold Star Families and the Troops.

After his presser in Puerto Rice, where he opined how good their death stats were, and they should be glad that they weren't experiencing a "real" disaster, like Katrina, then threw paper towels at the crowd, is it any wonder that Trump told a grieving widow "He knew what he was signing up for, but when it happens it hurts anyway."?


edit on 21-10-2017 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian


Fair enough. What you leave out, and I find it critical, is the
Congresswoman using a left leaning MSM to turn this into what it has become.

If it was a miscommunication, then sobeit. Kelly advised the President to NOT make the call.

There is no altering the fact that the Congresswoman turned this into political adventurism. She is the source. She owns it.

Political karma, I suppose. She completely deserves it, IMO.

P.S. Transcripts cannot convey emotion/tone without interpretation. Deliberate or otherwise. P.S. I still don't buy the accuracy of your 'Kelly was wrong'. This has backfired mightily on the left, believe it or not.


The left, or members of it, are well capable of distorting this in sheer desperation to avoid another 'Trump was right'.


Maybe not. I must assume so until proven otherwise. Between the two camps, we still can't sort out what's true and what's not on a number of subjects. The same will hold true for this one, I'd bet.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Willtell

Trump doesn't apologize because he doesn't make mistakes.

Well, except that one time when he was caught bragging about sexually abusing women.

Trump, good Christian man that he is, doesn't even have to ask forgiveness from God.

Even as a non-theist .... THAT gave me pause for a minute.


Yeah he’s a theological heathen



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:32 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
As I write this, the top thread on ATS is WH Chief of Staff Kelly rips apart Congresswoman Rep. Frederica Wilson at Press Conference. It's typical of political cheerleading threads — "our guy" delivers epic tongue lashing to "theirs" so let's all take a moment to gather 'round to high five.


Thing is, Kelly's advice, when Trump asked for help on the phone call, didn't work out so good anyway, it was the wrong choice of words no matter what...nothing to do with, 'behaving real' while Kelly was angry that people would talk about something, he considered private, while he had no idea what those people, family and friends, really thought.
You cannot demand this from people, just because high office is involved, it's just another form of "Comply"

In any case, Trump's glibness has no bounds, regardless of what he says, he doesn't care.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:32 PM
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I do have to say this or I won't be able to sleep tonight: I do think that Trump simply got what Kelly told him to say wrong.

As several here have noted, for those in military families the explanation "they knew what they signed up for" is a statement of commitment to duty and service. They know what it means in context.

To say that to young grieving widow who is not part of the military tradition ... it sounds like one of Trump's typical crass, demeaning comments.

I think he might have said something like "even though he was doing his duty and protecting us all, his loss still hurts, and hurts you most of all."

The American people cannot be blamed if at this point they expect the worst out of the President, as that is basically all he has given us to work with.


edit on 21-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker


the congresswoman wanted to draw attention to the mysterious death of a young man she knew since he was a child. how is that bad?



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Willtell

Trump doesn't apologize because he doesn't make mistakes.

Well, except that one time when he was caught bragging about sexually abusing women.

Trump, good Christian man that he is, doesn't even have to ask forgiveness from God.

Even as a non-theist .... THAT gave me pause for a minute.


Yeah he’s a theological heathen


He's one of the strongest cases of Narcissistic Personality Disorder I've ever seen; that coupled with his current diminishing abilities are absolutely terrifying.

And before someone does the "Well, thank you Dr. Gryph" BS ...

USAToday



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

Jealous of what? If my goal was to occupy the top spot on the ATS front page, I'd join with a new name and pander to right-wingers. You'd unwittingly hail me as the savior of ATS and probably run my fan club.


edit on 2017-10-21 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



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