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Liberals Love Trump's Tax Plan... When Told It's Bernie Sanders' Plan

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posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

Really? I see them all the time on this website. Both sides of the partisan aisle, though I'm not surprised you refuse to see the trash in your own closet.




posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

No, his platform is Socialistic not Communistic. They are not the same thing. But if you view it from the Capitalistic side then sure, it goes in that direction. But from a Capitalistic starting point both Socialism and Communism are in the same direction because that's just how it works.

That doesn't make him a communist. But it does mean he's a Socialist which is exactly what he claims to be.

Even you refer to his Tax plan as a Socialist one in your other post. You just like to throw Communist around when it suits you rather than the term Socialist.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 07:44 PM
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No, his platform is Socialistic not Communistic. They are not the same thing. But if you view it from the Capitalistic side then sure, it goes in that direction. But from a Capitalistic starting point both Socialism and Communism are in the same direction because that's just how it works.

That doesn't make him a communist. But it does mean he's a Socialist which is exactly what he claims to be.

Even you refer to his Tax plan as a Socialist one in your other post. You just like to throw Communist around when it suits you rather than the term Socialist.


Lets see if I can say this one more time. Lenin stated that the goal of socialism is communism. Communism just takes it a step further and involves often violent revolution. In Marxist theory, the State is supposed to wither away, but in the meantime involves a dictatorship of the proletariat, and supposedly the goal is for the proletariat to own the means of production, but the State actually maintains control. Now when you hear these guys like Noam Chomsky and Bern talking about socialism, what do you hear? Tell me truly. Don't you hear the hatred of capitalism? That's a sure sign they really have communist goals. Look at the planks of communism and compare with what we have implemented in the US already. A progressive income tax is high on the list..... if one were to be honest one would have to see that the ultimate goals of socialism and communism are one and the same. Sorry if that is a difficult concept for you to grasp. I'm sure that with more study you will get it.

edit on 24-10-2017 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 07:49 PM
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edit on 24-10-2017 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Yeah, I get it. I understand what you're saying, I just disagree. But let me explain better than just that.

I disagree even in the most general kind of way, but for specific reasons. In general I disagree with the fact that what you're actually doing here is arguing ideology and not reality. Communism, Capitalism and Socialism are all ideologies and can be argued about for many reasons. But reality isn't ever going to match an ideology so arguing reality and any ideology isn't arguing the same thing. Reality won't ever operate within the bounds of an ideology because it assumes things about people that aren't always accurate.

Next, I disagree with Lenin on this one too. I don't think the goal of an ideology is another ideology. They are goals in and of themselves. Saying Communism is the goal of Socialism is like saying the goal of becoming a millionaire is to become a billionaire. But that's not right. You're changing the goal and they aren't the same. They may be following the same path even but not the same thing. If millionaire is the goal then once you get there you change your goal to be billionaire well then you've now changed your goal. Plus didn't he also say that Capitalism leads to Socialism also?? So that would mean Capitalism has Communism as it's goal too.

As for Bernie and Noam, no I don't hear Capitalism Hate when they talk Socialism. I do hear them talking about the negative effects and things that happen as a result of Capitalism at different stages, but it's true. So even if it was hate, it would would be valid so what's the problem?? Capitalism like everything else has it's flaws although not at every point. Socialism has them too. Because like I said at the start, Reality works different than Ideology so they all will have problems.

Personally, I think we should be using any and all ideological ideas as we see fit for whatever we need. I don't want to be stuck in an Ideology because then you can't adjust. We need to be more fluid and adaptable for when the time comes that our old system is having trouble. I mean we've tried all methods already and they all fail and we always just start using different pieces anyway to keep going. Why not accept that and stop fighting with just one failed Ideological perspective??? Things change, times change, we have to be able to change with them. Go back and forth between them or whatever it takes.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 09:25 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
Sorry if that is a difficult concept for you to grasp. I'm sure that with more study you will get it.

People in a civilised country deserve Universal Health Care. Sorry if that is a difficult concept for you to grasp. I'm sure that with more study you will get it.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 09:31 PM
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keep the taxes as they are, eliminate wasteful government spending and make cuts across the board to government programs. get more done with less. give tax breaks to job creators and people investing in the market. i know, i know sounds way too simple doesn't it?



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: conspiracy nut

Wasteful spending is somewhat subjective. If it benefits you then I imagine you wouldn't consider it wasteful even if everyone else did. That goes for just about anything.

Cut's across the board seems a bit much too. Why not just eliminate the bad stuff completely and leave the good stuff???
Of course that answer has the same weakness as the first one in that Good and Bad is subjective too.

Get more done with less, sounds great, but how and where and in what way??

Job Creators is basically everyone. Business owners create jobs when they need to, not because they have extra money to throw around. I mean if they need to hire someone and they want to then they do. But if they don't need anyone they don't need anyone. Businesses aren't in the business of creating jobs so people have jobs to do. The exchange in goods and services is what makes jobs happen not businesses having money. That is just how they create them not why they create them.

Tax breaks for those who invest can go both ways IMO. I actually think capital gains should be taxed more but less in other areas. But I'm not very educated on the market either so maybe I'm missing something there.



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 10:23 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

keep the programs just force them to run more efficiently and practice fiscal responsibility.

what i mean by making cuts and wasteful spending is cut government down across the board and force whats left to have some responsibility and accountability, giving this government money is akin to having a crack head manage your financial portfolio. the government has proven it is not financially responsible and could not run a lemonade stand yet people want to give them more money? thats crazy imo. the government has gotten spoiled with the taxpayers credit card and is trying to apply for even more credit in our names. its time to cut the credit card in half and force the government to be fiscally responsible.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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The actual PLAN/BILL was introduced today. It's WONDERFUL for the middle-class and for America!

www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/02/gop-tax-bill-no-changes-to-401-k-doubles-deductions-for-middle-class-limits-state-and-local-tax.html

If I had time right now, I'd start a thread. Hopefully someone else will.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 12:25 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: loam

What's the use of this exactly? First off, only certain aspects of the tax plan are mentioned and even then, with no details.

If you called the PPACA "TrumpCare" and listed three provisions with the most bipartisan support, you don't think you'd get a bunch of Trump supporters to agree with them?

Would you rush to ATS with the "Trump supporters love ObamaCare... When told it's TrumpCare" video? I'm thinking not. This sort of thread adds nothing to policy discussion, it's just carefully crafted propaganda fodder for partisan circle jerks.

If you want to prove how informed you are compared to these people and promote Trump's tax plan, why not just make a case for how great it is in your own words?


The point is simple - people are reacting to the name behind the plan - not the plan itself.

When people are so stupid they base their opinion on who came up with it instead of what the plan is, they are making themselves equivalent to sheep being led to slaughter, and I don't care which side they belong to.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
The actual PLAN/BILL was introduced today. It's WONDERFUL for the middle-class and for America!

www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/02/gop-tax-bill-no-changes-to-401-k-doubles-deductions-for-middle-class-limits-state-and-local-tax.html

If I had time right now, I'd start a thread. Hopefully someone else will.


Not so sure I would go so far as to say it is wonderful - but it is definitely an improvement over our existing tax system. Probably about as good as one could reasonably expect I suppose - but it hasn't been passed yet, so it will probably get worse from here.



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 03:19 PM
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November 9, 2017

The Tax Plan just unveiled by the SENATE GOP, looks more like something from Democrats than from Republicans.

It delays the corporate tax cut until 2019 and keep the "death tax".

Summary - www.axios.com...



posted on Nov, 9 2017 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Yep.

They really don't want to do tax cuts for us.

They are using the excuse of the deficit but of course nobody seems to give a crap about that for decades other than sound-bit yap.

Hey, I know... how about a Government Spending Freeze (penny plan) and Decriminalize and Tax drugs and free up billions from our police/court/prison systems?

Oh right, the "special interests" will take a haircut instead of the taxpayers.... That is the real deal.



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