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Our Flag, Anthem Mean Nothing Without Allegiance to the Constitution

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posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: Kali74



Patriotism is subjective


Life must be very complicated for a Leftist.

Things for me are much simpler as I can tell right from wrong and good from evil. Leftists are always using moral relativity to justify their hypocrisy.




posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Kali74



Patriotism is subjective


Life must be very complicated for a Leftist.

Things for me are much simpler as I can tell right from wrong and good from evil. Leftists are always using moral relativity to justify their hypocrisy.


Again you bring me to question who you think you are to talk morals with anyone when you praise the murder of Heather Heyer?



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Kali74



My last protest (IIRC) was in front of John Kerry's house, against boots on the ground in Syria. Does that make me unpatriotic


Yep, John Kelly thinks it's unpatriotic to disagree with the government. He stated that the troops distain people that do! Shameful!

Technically that is true though, but only because the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to military soldiers. So it is a bad comparison to bring up in the first place...



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Kali74



Patriotism is subjective


Life must be very complicated for a Leftist.

Things for me are much simpler as I can tell right from wrong and good from evil. Leftists are always using moral relativity to justify their hypocrisy.


Again you bring me to question who you think you are to talk morals with anyone when you praise the murder of Heather Heyer?


There is a difference between 'praise' and indifference.

When you put yourself in a dangerous situation sometimes bad things happen.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t


Kelly wasn't talking about military soldiers, though. He was talking about people who say they support the troops, but don't support cause. He said the troops distain those people. Reread his statement from the speech he gave, 4 days after his son's death.


"Their struggle is your struggle," Kelly said, according to a video of his remarks.

"They disdain those who claim to support them but not the cause that takes their innocence, their limbs, and their lives. As a democracy … we must support them. I know it doesn't apply to anyone in this room today, but if anyone thinks you can somehow thank them for their service, and not support the cause for which they fight–our country–then these people are lying to themselves and rationalizing away something in their own lives, but, more importantly, they are slighting our warriors and mocking their commitment to this nation."



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6



Later, he clarified in an interview that he is opposed to indifference, not dissent. “I just think if you are against the war, you should somehow try to change it,” he said. “Fight to bring us home.”


Where's your source for this supposed interview of Kelly backpeddling and deflecting from of his words of distain for those who don't agree with "the cause", that you insist my "lady bones" skewed?



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Kali74



My last protest (IIRC) was in front of John Kerry's house, against boots on the ground in Syria. Does that make me unpatriotic


Yep, John Kelly thinks it's unpatriotic to disagree with the government. He stated that the troops distain people that do! Shameful!

Technically that is true though, but only because the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to military soldiers. So it is a bad comparison to bring up in the first place...



How selective and typical of the left. WHY shouldn't the 1 St. apply to the military? If it applies to one, it applies to all.....oops there's that consensus thing again.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Kali74



Patriotism is subjective


Life must be very complicated for a Leftist.

Things for me are much simpler as I can tell right from wrong and good from evil. Leftists are always using moral relativity to justify their hypocrisy.


Again you bring me to question who you think you are to talk morals with anyone when you praise the murder of Heather Heyer?


There is a difference between 'praise' and indifference.

When you put yourself in a dangerous situation sometimes bad things happen.


Uh huh...

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: liveandlearn

So a hate filled, anti-white protester was killed?

Too bad.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Kali74



My last protest (IIRC) was in front of John Kerry's house, against boots on the ground in Syria. Does that make me unpatriotic


Yep, John Kelly thinks it's unpatriotic to disagree with the government. He stated that the troops distain people that do! Shameful!

Technically that is true though, but only because the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to military soldiers. So it is a bad comparison to bring up in the first place...



How selective and typical of the left. WHY shouldn't the 1 St. apply to the military? If it applies to one, it applies to all.....oops there's that consensus thing again.


That's not a left or right thing, that is a military thing. You give up most of your Constitutional protections when you join the military. You are essentially government property. That is why you can be prosecuted for desertion. It's not a job, you can't just quit.

Citizens and soldiers are not equal status.
edit on 10/20/2017 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Kali74



My last protest (IIRC) was in front of John Kerry's house, against boots on the ground in Syria. Does that make me unpatriotic


Yep, John Kelly thinks it's unpatriotic to disagree with the government. He stated that the troops distain people that do! Shameful!

Technically that is true though, but only because the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to military soldiers. So it is a bad comparison to bring up in the first place...



How selective and typical of the left. WHY shouldn't the 1 St. apply to the military? If it applies to one, it applies to all.....oops there's that consensus thing again.

Big time swing and a miss there.

The military doesn't fall under civilian law and falls under UCMJ. This is a basic fact that is known throughout the military. You can't have soldiers questioning their leadership while in a combat zone so speech is purposely limited. When you sign up, you sign up knowing fully well that you don't retain your rights as a civilian.

Maybe stop looking at the world through a partisan lens and actually deny some ignorance for a change?
edit on 20-10-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-10-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: windword

Ok. I thought you were talking about something else.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Kali74



My last protest (IIRC) was in front of John Kerry's house, against boots on the ground in Syria. Does that make me unpatriotic


Yep, John Kelly thinks it's unpatriotic to disagree with the government. He stated that the troops distain people that do! Shameful!

Technically that is true though, but only because the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to military soldiers. So it is a bad comparison to bring up in the first place...



How selective and typical of the left. WHY shouldn't the 1 St. apply to the military? If it applies to one, it applies to all.....oops there's that consensus thing again.


Boy...you sorta missed the mark by a mile and a half with this one.

I bet if you take a moment and try really, really hard you can figure out why it might not be a good idea to let members of the military trash their superiors in public forums, including those who hold political office above them.

ETA - oh and PS, neither the UCMJ nor it's predecessor the Articles of War and Rocks and Shoals were written by "the left."
edit on 20-10-2017 by Shamrock6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 04:09 PM
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Actually, the school can require all people to stand for the national anthem. The Jehova's stand, they do not put their hand over their heart though. Standing shows respect, putting your hand over your heart is a different matter, that shows allegance, which the Jehovah's believe should be towards god.

The School cannot make a person stand if they are sick or injured though.

Our government gives us the rights we have, we need to respect that. If we didn't have the rights we have, we would not even be discussing this right now. Many countries do not have the rights we have, we need to respect our government because it allows these rights. That can change quickly if Martial law is called. Also, if you are considered a traitor, then you can lose your rights. In that case, you also lose your right to our regular legal system. Our ancestors worked hard to get the rights we have, we should be thankful we are not like some other European countries that punish people for opening their mouth, or like China or Russia or the Middle east, where you can lose your life, limb, head, or be imprisoned for opening your mouth.

If this government falls apart, chances are for twenty years or more we will be living in hell. We as a society have become so entitled we cannot see that we are doing well in the world. We should be thankful we have what we have. Even though it is not real.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

Our government most certainly does not give us our rights.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse


Our government gives us the rights we have


Yea that's a big fat no.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


Might wanna bone up on that.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Kali74



My last protest (IIRC) was in front of John Kerry's house, against boots on the ground in Syria. Does that make me unpatriotic


Yep, John Kelly thinks it's unpatriotic to disagree with the government. He stated that the troops distain people that do! Shameful!

Technically that is true though, but only because the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to military soldiers. So it is a bad comparison to bring up in the first place...



How selective and typical of the left. WHY shouldn't the 1 St. apply to the military? If it applies to one, it applies to all.....oops there's that consensus thing again.


That's not a left or right thing, that is a military thing. You give up most of your Constitutional protections when you join the military. You are essentially government property. That is why you can be prosecuted for desertion. It's not a job, you can't just quit.

Citizens and soldiers are not equal status.


Yes, yes, we know that. That's my point on infringements on the Amendments. It is an exception. yes? That is why I marginalize your indignation on kids in school. An infringement? Yes. So what? It's been there for longer than I've been alive. No big deal before. No big deal now.

However, I will side with you IF it goes further than this. Just my opinion, though.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: windword

I already told you the source.

PS - as is often the case with you, read what I actually said if you're going to quote me, not what you wish I'd said because it's easier to debate that instead.
edit on 20-10-2017 by Shamrock6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Kali74



My last protest (IIRC) was in front of John Kerry's house, against boots on the ground in Syria. Does that make me unpatriotic


Yep, John Kelly thinks it's unpatriotic to disagree with the government. He stated that the troops distain people that do! Shameful!

Technically that is true though, but only because the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to military soldiers. So it is a bad comparison to bring up in the first place...



How selective and typical of the left. WHY shouldn't the 1 St. apply to the military? If it applies to one, it applies to all.....oops there's that consensus thing again.

Big time swing and a miss there.

The military doesn't fall under civilian law and falls under UCMJ. This is a basic fact that is known throughout the military. You can't have soldiers questioning their leadership while in a combat zone so speech is purposely limited. When you sign up, you sign up knowing fully well that you don't retain your rights as a civilian.

Maybe stop looking at the world through a partisan lens and actually deny some ignorance for a change?


Your fact IS a fact. It IS an infringement. Also a fact. Technically, it violates civil rights by discriminating against a segment of society. So does no Federal taxes for Native Americans. Lot's of exceptions. The commonality is 'acceptance/ consensus on those exceptions. Yes?

I, for one, and I assume many others have had enough of the direction this has been going. No complaints against many of the others, but now, hue and cry over kids standing for a national anthem.

Just try and enforce 'freedom of speech' in schools. LOL. Bye, bye, no bullying. The thought is hilarious. I was a veritable monster in school, surrounded by a whole class full. It would have been nuts.


Nope. Sit down, shut up and listen....maybe you kids will learn something of value. Just my opinion.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

Isn't forced patriotism a big thing in North Korea?



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

I agree with you.

People should be free to be as disrespectful as they desire.



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