ObamaCare Double Whammy if You Make Over 48,000 dollars.

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: theantediluvian

The point is, that ObamaCare treats $23,000 people better than $48,000 people. It rewards being a member of the poor working class. ObamaCare did that even before Trump was President. THAT is what I'm complaining about.

So what's the point. Its suppose to be a system to help WORKING PEOPLE get reasonably priced health insurance.

When your boy Trump and the GOP cut the legs off of the program that won't get accomplished.

It’s an algorithim they have deliberately destroyed.

If that's the case, why do WORKING PEOPLE who make $48,000 have to pay the full $900 a month premium? THAT "algorithm" (aka formula) was designed by the Democrats in 2009. Trump had nothing to do with how unfair it is.

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Metallicus
We need to eliminate the 'for profit' portion of this health scam. Let's get rid of health insurance and focus on health care.

You are exactly correct.

Glad we can agree.

Yes he is right. Trump cant do this alone and Barack intentionally did this for the insurance companies to profit. Make us buy something illegally and fine us illegally if we do not obey the authoritarian freaks

Barack Obama did NOT like the insurance companies. He decried their "insane profits" as much as Donald Trump is now. That's why the Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) was incorporated into the Affordable Care Act. It limits health insurance profit to 20%.

But as you might expect from people who have never owned a business, that MLR rule is severely flawed. 20% of 10 Billion dollars is more money than 20% of 5 Billion dollars. Soooo.. health insurance companies raised premiums sky high in 2013, when the MLR kicked in. But that strategy didn't work out. Most started losing money almost immediately after the really big mandates and protections kicked in, in 2014. That's why there are so few companies selling ObamaCare health plans this year...and even fewer for 2018.

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: carewemust

This is why we need a single payer system. The healthcare companies are NOT serving the customer's interests.

President Trump is aware that the entire medical system, from health insurer, to hospital, to pharmaceuticals, are world-class ripoffs.

A Single-Payer system would pay them less money, but would they accept it?

Obama is very intelligent!
This was his game plan from day one. Who is being suckered in.

It depends on which lobby is weakest. Consumer lobbies, or Medical lobbies. To get single-payer through Congress, consumers will have to be stronger than medical.

originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: Christosterone
I work in a small non-profit community hospital. It's HORRIBLE!

I don't see anything changing until PROFIT is taken out of this equation. If you have insurance, your insurance company with "settle" your bill down to cents on the dollar. If you only need $500 for a CT don't charge $5000 and then make people negotiate. It should cost $500 for EVERYONE!

That's because SOME people will pay the $5,000, no questions asked. I know a few like that. If the price was set at $500, the medical provider will not get the $5,000 from wealthier and/or naïve patients.

a reply to: links234

THREE of those 4 tragedies are occurring today..even with ObamaCare. The liberal media that you linked to (NYT), will not publish today's medical cost related bankruptcies, deaths, etc.. Not when some aspect of ObamaCare is to blame.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Metallicus
We need to eliminate the 'for profit' portion of this health scam. Let's get rid of health insurance and focus on health care.

With President Trump publicly "calling out" health insurance companies, more Americans are starting to realize this.

The U.S.A. is one of the most prosperous countries on Earth. There's no FINANCIAL reason why this nation can't bear the cost of providing world-class healthcare to every citizen.

President Trump is a proponent of "Single Payer". We'll see if he wants to tackle that after the Tax-Cuts are implemented.

Then he should be proposing that rather than that disaster of the Republican plan. I don't like how he supported the Mcconnell- Ryan piece of trash proposal.

America overall would support a plan like Single Payer with optional bells and whistles or something like Sanders Medicare for all. Everything else has failed, I'm ready to give it a shot. If Trump wanted to be bold he would try to reach out and work with Sanders for a Great, truly Great plan.

You'd get enough from both sides of the aisle to pass it eaisly if it actually was a deal with input from both sides. But no, both sides would rather dicker.

You're 100% correct. Americans are starting to seriously want Congress to begin the "Single Payer" debate. When the Health Insurance Tax hits employees in 2018, followed by the Cadillac Tax in 2019, there will be a nationwide DEMAND for this debate. (Just like Obama planned it...mentally in 2002 and for real, in 2009.)

Naturally, it could not be funded 100% from tax increases, but there's more than enough money in the economy to support at least half of the $3 Trillion annual cost.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: liejunkie01
The union I am a part of has our own insurance company that we pay out of our package. It is stupid expensive. We pay almost $7 an hour into our insurance. The upside is that we don't have to really deal with the ignorance. We just are forced to pay for an over priced product that keeps getting worse.

Healthcare is a complete disaster and as long as big business keeps making the laws, then it is going to stay a complete disaster.

You pay $55@DAY for your health insurance at work? Wow. Sounds like someone (Company or Union) is taking a cut. In 2019 the 40% ObamaCare health insurance excise tax kicks in on companies that have plans like yours. That will bump the cost up by 40% instantly on 1.1.2019, unless ObamaCare is repealed, or President Trump convinces Congress to delay it indefinitely.

Nobody is taking a cut of our money but the big corporations. The overhead for such a large body of "customers" is stupid expensive. Our books are completely open to any members and actually our Hall and international get audited every other year or so. We actually shop around for better coverage quite often. Our insurance is combined with hundreds of thousands of other union employees and we are constantly changing to meet the exceedingly ridiculous demands of the healthcare and insurance industry.

It's actually pretty good insurance for the family man.

The system is the scam.

It is crooked politicians and corporate robbery that are hurting us as citizens.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: carewemust

You don't make any sense.

LOL...you clearly don't understand. The explanation provided by the OP is about as concise an example as can be provided. There are almost 11,000 pages in the ACA and you're going to claim you actually understand what you're talking about aside from out of your ass as usual. LOL.

You HATE anyone not you and I LOVE that people like you exist because it brings me a sadistic pleasure knowing how much real estate I take up in your mind.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: carewemust

All Trump has to do is sign an EO neutralizing the highly illegal Individual Mandate, and people can make the choice to opt out of this sinking ship that is crony socialized healthcare.

He can't do that. He did this because a court already ruled these subsidies illegal because Obama instituted them illegally through EO in the first place.

All Trump did is backtrack something that should never have begun, a court even said so.

Right. Even though Congress was run by Democrats at the time, they didn't want to help the health insurance companies any more than they had already. But Obama's HHS Director (Kathleen Sebelius) told him that without the extra $5 Billion (at the time) in Cost Sharing Reduction payments to the health insurance companies, ObamaCare would crash and burn. So Obama directed his U.S. Treasury to begin sending the money to the ObamaCare health insurance companies, without authorization to do so.

Obama executed the equivalent of Donald Trump going to the Treasury and demanding that they cut a check for $5 billion for Trump Wall. If he were a lawbreaker like Obama, and had a Congress who wasn't afraid of Democrats, Trump could do that tomorrow. But he won't.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: pavil

Sounds great. All we have to do now is convince Congress.

The only way would be to roll most of them out. Trouble is their replacements will be as bad, if not worse. I'm tired or Democrats and Republicans, let's just elect Americans who actually care about our citizens.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: WhateverYouSay

Insurance co's pay the price of medical cost and can keep 20% for profits.

It is a combo of the medical industry costing way way too much and insurance co's keeping way too much %20 profit is alot of $$$$$$$$.

Actually, health insurance companies are not amongst the most profitable. But if you look at this fact sheet, www.forbes.com...
notice what is the most profitable...Pharmaceuticals.

originally posted by: liejunkie01

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: liejunkie01
The union I am a part of has our own insurance company that we pay out of our package. It is stupid expensive. We pay almost $7 an hour into our insurance. The upside is that we don't have to really deal with the ignorance. We just are forced to pay for an over priced product that keeps getting worse.

Healthcare is a complete disaster and as long as big business keeps making the laws, then it is going to stay a complete disaster.

You pay $55@DAY for your health insurance at work? Wow. Sounds like someone (Company or Union) is taking a cut. In 2019 the 40% ObamaCare health insurance excise tax kicks in on companies that have plans like yours. That will bump the cost up by 40% instantly on 1.1.2019, unless ObamaCare is repealed, or President Trump convinces Congress to delay it indefinitely.

Nobody is taking a cut of our money but the big corporations. The overhead for such a large body of "customers" is stupid expensive. Our books are completely open to any members and actually our Hall and international get audited every other year or so. We actually shop around for better coverage quite often. Our insurance is combined with hundreds of thousands of other union employees and we are constantly changing to meet the exceedingly ridiculous demands of the healthcare and insurance industry.

It's actually pretty good insurance for the family man.

The system is the scam.

It is crooked politicians and corporate robbery that are hurting us as citizens.

Thank-you for the reply and clarification, liejunkie01. Your insurance must be very good, considering that you're in such a large risk-pool.

Yep..when it comes to medical costs, Americans are being taken advantage of, big-time.

During the "Bush Recession" the increases slowed to under 10%@year, because a lot of people started buying high-deductible plans, which caused them to not see the doctor unless it was urgent.

But as the economy improved, and ObamaCare started phasing in, the premiums began shooting up like never before. Here in Illinois, a 105% increase the past 3 years. In just 75 days, premiums here will be 43% higher than they are today..FORTY THREE PERCENT!

originally posted by: Outlier13

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: carewemust

You don't make any sense.

LOL...you clearly don't understand. The explanation provided by the OP is about as concise an example as can be provided. There are almost 11,000 pages in the ACA and you're going to claim you actually understand what you're talking about aside from out of your ass as usual. LOL.

You HATE anyone not you and I LOVE that people like you exist because it brings me a sadistic pleasure knowing how much real estate I take up in your mind.

Don't be so hard on the little fella. AntediLuvian is frustrated, like a lot of Americans.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: carewemust

you get a health insurance deductible as low as $500.00.

Just above the cost your average doctor visit, including simple diagnosis and prescription for the most common ailments.

That's a fact...you meet the $500 deductible very easily. Our local Emergency Room charges $800 the moment you walk in the door.

You may have missed my point.

Emergencies aren't common. More common is average doctor visits, checkups, kid flu, all non emergency care at your family physician, most of which costs less than '500' per visit.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: lordcomac

burn it to the ground, force the medical industry to start over in a land where money is earned instead of granted.

The hospitals are victimized too.

The average cost for a day in the hospital, in 2015 was $2,271.
Source: www.kff.org...
That's highway robbery for a place to rest and sleep. (But sometimes, the TV is included!)

Again, you missed the point.

Most family doctor visits aren't hospital or emergency issues.

The real 'double whammy' is having to pay the insurance premium, and all the 'under deductible' out of pocket costs associated with ordinary care; checkups, vaccinations, prescription medication for flu, bacterial infection, testing (like blood work), etc.

I won't go into dental care.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Metallicus

We need to let the insurance market crash so that people can wake up and see that the cost of health care will come tumbling down with it. Its the insurance companies that inflate costs. Why would people think government intervention could ever help? It never does. If ObamaCare is bad, imagine how tyrannical a full-blown single payer system would be.

Yeah, having high quality available healthcare at all times, for about the equivalent of $40/month really sucks. You just can't imagine the tyranny!!

/sarc

You guys are getting truly screwed by Insurance Companies but you don't know any different. There are aspects of society that NEED to be socialised, because if EVERYONE wants them or NEEDS them, why introduce competition? Why allow yourself to be held to ransom like that?

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

I'll ask you the same question I asked dfnj2015.

How is a single payer system going to help anyone?

Its a socialist's dogmatic mantra, but could you please explain the mechanics?

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

I'll ask you the same question I asked dfnj2015.

How is a single payer system going to help anyone?

Its a socialist's dogmatic mantra, but could you please explain the mechanics?

Is the current system serving all Americans and serving them equally? We have rudimentary single payer already with Medicare and Tricare. It works for the most part. What scares you about single payer? It would streamline things administratively at the very least. Other 1st world nations make it work with universal coverage at a lower percent of GDP. Our current system doesn't cover everyone and doesn't cover them equally at a huge cost to our economy. I'm willing to try alternatives.

a reply to: carewemust

Its laughable really.

The only answer to properly funding healthcare is taxation. You fund the hospitals, the general practitioners surgeries, provision of medication, treatment, and care, through taxes, and your people do not end up paying hundreds of dollars every time they go to the doctors office, or through the nose for medication depending on which state or city they live in, or wind up with unpayable bills that will ruin the lives of the patient and their children, just as readily as the illness or injury being treated will.

And all it costs, is a relatively small increase in taxation. It does not prohibit a person purchasing extra protections, so that they can get extra special treatment, but it does mean that everyone gets to experience a healthcare system which is there for the patient, not for profits, if they should require it. Think of it. Ambulance ride? No extra charge. Emergency room treatment? No extra charge. Doctors visit? No massive, sudden payments coming out of ones accounts, in such a way as to suddenly pose a risk to ones ability to provide food, heat, light and shelter to oneself and ones offspring, and all it would cost, is a small increase in taxes.

No one has ever gotten from year dot, to old age, without getting a cold, or taking an injury. You will hear of many people who have never visited a doctor, especially if you live in the states, but that is not the same thing in the least. There are people in the United States, walking with a cane because they could not afford to get surgery to correct the damage caused by an injury, despite getting that injury at work. This injury will, as they age, deteriorate their independence, because as they grow older, that injury is going to reduce their mobility further, until they either have to find money they do not have, for a mobility scooter they cannot afford, or have their relatives push them around in standard, old fashioned wheelchairs. They will eventually, and WAY before time, be unable to make their way around their abode without assistance, reducing the quality of life they experience, and increasing the likelihood that some form of elderly care will have to be provided for.

But someone who cannot afford a mobility scooter for a one time payment, is not going to be able to afford the kind of care that they need when they can no longer do, with their untreated injury worsening their lives, the basic things which keep them fed and watered, or even get to the toilet without searing agony.

All of that costly, painful crap I listed, which is happening to the elderly poor in your country, right this very moment, could have been avoided, if they had not been bound by the cost of medical treatment, to avoid their doctor, avoid the hospitals, avoid healthcare of all kinds, since it is a death sentence on ones pocket book and ability to do things like simply EAT during a month.

People should not have to choose starvation along with medical treatment. A doctors visit should not cost the service user, the patient, five hundred, or even fifty dollars. These things need dealing with in a fundamentally different manner. Medical treatment is not a luxury, it is not a spa weekend, or a skiing trip to Europe, or a yachting expedition to Monaco to watch the bloody Grand Prix! It is a necessity. People die without it, and those who do not die without it, but still go without it, suffer unreasonable reductions in the quality of life they are saddled with.

It needs to cost nothing at point of delivery, and be paid for by way of taxation, if outcomes are to improve for everyone.

a reply to: carewemust

I don't doubt that insurance ins't the most profitable. There are much much fatter cats out there. And they got the lobby to prove it.