a reply to: bastion
i think you are making the "all or nothing" logical fallacy here. Its actually an intellectual/cognitive distortion because there is almost no
situation in life in which there is an all or nothing phenomenon, most exist in degrees.
Your inability or unwillingness to admit the NUANCE and DEGREE of what is essentially a point of social interaction (bathrooms, etc) detracts from the
strength of your rebuttal. You may even have a logical point within a purely hypothetical situation that probably doesnt exist, but in the REAL world
we dont and usually cannot make such all or nothing decisions about something as complex and vastly integrated into society as the interaction of
adults and children is.
Let me put it another way. Adults and children will necessarily meet and interact in various venues of the life experience and in a normally
functioning society or tribe or other group this is totally normative. Breaking it down further we can identify times and places in which more or less
such interaction takes place and then proceed to evaluate the importance of those interactions and whether or not they need to exist to the degree
that they do, or exist at all.
You made the giant leap of so called "reasoning" from me saying that if im against Trans adults being in bathrooms that to be logically consistent i
should be against ALL adults being in bathrooms with children.
Well, you may actually have a point there! I will admit that. I have NEVER liked public bathrooms. I think theyre disgusting first of all, and
secondly i am a naturally paranoid person about people of unknown provenance and disposition pulling their pants down next to me. I happen to know
there are crazy people in the world, i have worked with some of them, and i know that the bathroom experience is one in which you are potentially at
nearly your most vulnerable point, next to being asleep i suppose. THEREFORE for the sake of just basic survival based behavior i think peeing and
pooping in groups is not advisable AT ALL and i really dont have a personal enjoyment of the group bathroom experience.
Having said that, our societies have adopted this model into its infrastructure, obviously out of a purely utilitarian need since personal bathrooms
would cost significantly more money to build and operate (im assuming). So we are discussing the most optimal manner in which to operate a very UN
optimal bathroom experience.
Now, since i just told you i am personally opposed to gang bathrooms (showers etc) its easy for me to be logically consistent in my argument and agree
with one part of your point while rejecting your overall conclusion. I agree with you that perhaps in OUR CURRENT MODEL of society and complexity it
might not be a good idea for adults and children to mix company during a very vulnerable experience evolutionarily speaking. An animal going to the
bathroom is far more vulnerable to attack than at most other times except during intercourse and sleep. Therefore, I can easily make the argument
that ideally no adults and chldren, and perhaps even children together and adults together, should be sharing a bathroom AT ALL. We could have some
common ground on that particular application or scenario in which children and adults interact.
HOWEVER, when you go beyond that to include ALL interaction between children and adults (men) regardless of the time and place then you go completely
off the rails of logic and rationality. If i have to explain in detail why i would just feel like im insulting your intelligence even if you are just
playing devils advocate as it should be as they say "primae facie" exactly why such a position is completely unrealistic in the evolutionary sense of
So let me sum up. Group bathrooms are just a bad idea period, but we are stuck with them in the models most societies have adopted for the public
space. THEREFORE i advocate common sense preventative measures for all persons in that public space to take to best protect themselves. Now, to my
thinking it makes the most sense for like sexes to share this vulnerable and private experience together since it is already not ideal but adding
females to the mix would make it even less ideal. So in this less than ideal scenario males eliminate waste together, and females do likewise. The
social utility of this should be obvious: like begets like, like attracts like, like understands like etc. So as to not be overtly preoccupied,
distracted or otherwise bothered by such obvious differences in genitalia, it makes the most logical sense to put like plumbing with like. This
eliminates numerous uncomfortable social experiences that most people would just as soon not have to deal with, unless theyre freaks.
Adults and children sharing space and interaction is not an all or nothing proposition. There ARE in fact some points of interaction that are not only
necessary but beneficial: men and boys hunting together for example. A tribe that did not pass on this critical skill would simply not survive and
given that historically men were the hunters it is perfectly scientifically evolutionarily logical for this kind of interaction between men and boys
to take place. Any argument that goes to the retarded edge of space cadetum saying that we should eliminate ALL interaction between men and women,
boys and girls is an argument for the death of the species itself.
Therefore your point is moot.