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BREAKING: Puerto Rican Secretary Of State Blows Whistle On Hurricane Relief Fraud, Finds Unopened US

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posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:47 AM
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First, that doesn't look like a dumpster of any kind, and there are shipping containers all around it too. We do know there is a internal shipping problem.




posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 01:52 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: SlapMonkey

That's great. Let's make little kids and toddlers soldier on with wet cold meals.


And you would rather people starve than eating MREs?...

MREs might not be that great in taste but they feed people.


MREs are not bad at all...I eaten 100s...Remember they are like 5000 cals per since they are designed for foot soldier that may need that much.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 02:02 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

Actually they are like 5000 kj which converts to approx. 1200 calories. Still better than starving.

MRE's

Each MRE provides an average of 1,250 calories (13 percent protein, 36 percent fat, and 51 percent carbohydrates) and one-third of the Military Recommended Daily Allowance of vitamins and minerals. A full day's worth of meals would consist of three MREs.



edit on 20-10-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 05:30 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Your comments about the state of the Port and the infrastructure on the island show a deep lack of understanding about the financial state Puerto Rico is in, has been placed in by the preference of the people who invest there, to keep the island a tax haven, so that immoral business practices can continue (yes, making it cheaper to run a business, by hiding its head offices in a tax haven is immoral, and theres no debating around the issue), to stiff taxpayers on the island and elsewhere.

It also demonstrates that you have not paid much attention to how little power Puerto Ricos governance have, over how they spend their money. Currently, a board assigned by the United States government, controls government spending on the region, so none of the political figures on the island have any power to affect significant infrastructural change, and its worth pointing out that although that oversight group has only been in existence since PROMESA took effect, there were yet more stumbling blocks affecting the island, since at least the 1970s, if not before, when it comes to their debt.

You see, the draw of the tax status one would have as a businessperson there, is strong, with people, even in the weeks before the hurricane even hit the news, flocking to set up company headquarters there for tax purposes, and yes, investing in the part of the island they had bought, but actually putting very little back into the local economy, by way of actual taxes. Meanwhile, poverty rates on the island are 45%, unemployment is around 12% as of December 2016, and there simply is no wiggle room for either the government, or the people of the island, to make effective changes to their lives which would, even without this hurricane, have made it possible to correct the infrastructural problems on the island. There are no solutions to the trouble that Puerto Rico is in (even, again, ignoring the hurricane for a moment) which are going to ever be the issue of the island or the islanders themselves. There is no work for those who have none, and what work is available is mostly VERY low paid, even in relatively skilled environs. Its austerity situation is frankly beyond bearable, so it cannot be expected to make improvements to its critical infrastructure. The factors which have lead the island to its current status, are largely related to its status as a territory but not a state, the fact that the tax status desired by investors actually damages the long term economy of the island, which means that either the tax status changes (requiring all manner of permissions and hoop jumping with regard to arranging it with US central government) which will push businesses away, lessening the net worth of the island even further and TOTALLY destroying its economy overnight, or they keep things as they are, and slowly collapse the economy. There are NOT other options available to the governance or the people of the island, and many of the alternatives which have been tabled would fail to pass oversight, or for that matter, fail to receive support on the mainland.

So, to the problem at hand. If the roads from the port are not good enough, things must be helicoptered around. That much is patently obvious. The aid should be taken directly to the specific locations on the island in which it is required, without delay, argument, concerns over who pays for what, or any other nonsense. The only thing that matters is that the food and water required, gets to the people who need it, BEFORE THEY STARVE TO DEATH! That is the situation people are facing. The politics and finances are not relevant, nor important when compared with that. The thing people object to about the way things are being done at the moment, is that anyone has even MENTIONED money, while lives are still at stake. You are talking about human lives, citizens of the United States lives no less. You do not do the mathematics when lives are at risk, you do the grunt work, you get the food dropped where it needs to be and YEARS later, when the dust has settled, and people there at least have a shack built of storm tossed garbage to live in for the moment, THEN the US government can think about the money it all cost, and work out how to take its costs back from the most poverty stricken territory it possesses.

Incidentally, any solution to the cost problem, will likely involve major changes, issued by the US central government, to the way PRs tax status works, the way its local government is funded, AND provision of methods to draw investment to the region, which do not revolve around tax dodging.

If you would PM me when you hear from your friend, that would be very much appreciated.
edit on 20-10-2017 by TrueBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Agreed. People don't realize that these are very high-calorie meals meant to sustain a person for a day, if not longer if necessary. They're not perfect, and you still end up with an empty stomach 8 hours after eating them, but even if you only have one per day, you'll survive for a very, very long time.



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 10:02 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Your comments about the state of the Port and the infrastructure on the island show a deep lack of understanding about the financial state Puerto Rico is in...

It also demonstrates that you have not paid much attention to how little power Puerto Ricos governance have, over how they spend their money...

Here's what I understand: At any time that they want to, Puerto Ricans can vote themselves into statehood (pending approval of Congress, of course), and this could be the outcome (per Wikiwikiwiki) (it's the easiest to cite):

Governor Ricardo Rosselló is strongly in favor of statehood to help develop the economy and help to "solve our 500-year-old colonial dilemma ... Colonialism is not an option .... It’s a civil rights issue ... 3.5 million citizens seeking an absolute democracy," he told the news media. Benefits of statehood include an additional $10 billion per year in federal funds, the right to vote in presidential elections, higher Social Security and Medicare benefits, and a right for its government agencies and municipalities to file for bankruptcy. The latter is currently prohibited.

Now, I may not be an expert on the details of Puerto Rico's financial and governmental woes when it comes to corruption and U.S. Federal control over their monies, but I do know that everything noted above as a benefit of statehood would surely be coming in handy right about now--not to mention they could spend their state dollars as they deem fit, like on infrastructure.

So, we can cite the issues that you note, and we can call me out on not being an expert, for sure, but we also must remember that the citizens of Puerto Rico always hold their own fates in their hands when it comes to their governance and benefits that they receive from the United States. If they want to continue to basically be their own independent nation (even though they call themselves an "Associated Free State" of the U.S.), that's on them. I have sympathy for their plight, but I'm also a realist and know that it doesn't have to be this way for them.


... there simply is no wiggle room for either the government, or the people of the island, to make effective changes to their lives which would, even without this hurricane, have made it possible to correct the infrastructural problems on the island.

No, there is, they just keep choosing not to vote that wiggle room upon themselves. I'm not saying that becoming a state is the only answer, but it certainly is one that would dramatically help their situation. Their GDP right now is about $126B...are you telling me that an additional 8% of that GDP handed to them by the U.S. government wouldn't add wiggle room? Are you telling me that being able to add their voice to who becomes POTUS, or to have a voice in the U.S. Congress wouldn't help add wiggle room to their problems?

I wholeheartedly disagree.


There is no work for those who have none, and what work is available is mostly VERY low paid, even in relatively skilled environs.


This is an island problem...many island nations, states, and territories have this problem. When population increases but job creation and availability doesn't keep pace because of finite land and resources, you get exactly what you're talking about. It's an issue in Hawai'i, too, but the PR (Public Relations) on Hawai'i does a much better job keeping that reality under wraps. Being surrounded by water and not having major industries creates exactly the problem that you cite. When there is an overabundance of workers and not of work, you get high unemployment and low wages.


Its austerity situation is frankly beyond bearable, so it cannot be expected to make improvements to its critical infrastructure. The factors which have lead the island to its current status, are largely related to its status as a territory but not a state, the fact that the tax status desired by investors actually damages the long term economy of the island, which means that either the tax status changes (requiring all manner of permissions and hoop jumping with regard to arranging it with US central government) which will push businesses away, lessening the net worth of the island even further and TOTALLY destroying its economy overnight, or they keep things as they are, and slowly collapse the economy. There are NOT other options available to the governance or the people of the island, and many of the alternatives which have been tabled would fail to pass oversight, or for that matter, fail to receive support on the mainland.

So, you are telling me that that benefits of statehood would not outweigh, or at least negate, your improvable presumptions about the negative effect of reducing the island's appeal as a quasi-tax shelter? I'm not buying that at all.

Basically what you're saying is that Puerto Rico is only doomed to continue to fail because of being a tax haven, and there's not that can stop it? Nope, that's ridiculousness coated in defeatism. I'm not saying that any transition wouldn't be tough, but to pretend that statehood would "TOTALLY [destroy] its economy overnight" is hyperbole and a short-sighted assessment. It would absolutely depend on how the statehood process was handled.


So, to the problem at hand. If the roads from the port are not good enough, things must be helicoptered around. That much is patently obvious. The aid should be taken directly to the specific locations on the island in which it is required, without delay, argument, concerns over who pays for what, or any other nonsense ... The politics and finances are not relevant, nor important when compared with that. The thing people object to about the way things are being done at the moment, is that anyone has even MENTIONED money, while lives are still at stake ... You do not do the mathematics when lives are at risk, you do the grunt work, you get the food dropped where it needs to be and YEARS later, when the dust has settled, and people there at least have a shack built of storm tossed garbage to live in for the moment, THEN the US government can think about the money it all cost, and work out how to take its costs back from the most poverty stricken territory it possesses.

Morally (and this seems to be the foundation that your using in this thread), you are correct. Realistically, though, all of the food and fuel and helicopters and logistics takes money, and these things don't necessarily happen on good faith and credit in the moment. To pretend that the best option (and pretend that it's the only moral one) is to just blindly spend spend spend and only tally the receipts at the end is a dangerous and irresponsible one, lives at stake or not.

You yourself stated that you don't have the means to personally do anything to help the citizens of Puerto Rico, I assume referencing your fiscal situation--how can you be so flippant with my tax dollars when you can't afford to help out yourself. You have no dog in this fight of 'just spend spend spend,' so where is the morality in claiming that the solution is to use my money without accountability?



posted on Oct, 20 2017 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit

Incidentally, any solution to the cost problem, will likely involve major changes, issued by the US central government, to the way PRs tax status works, the way its local government is funded, AND provision of methods to draw investment to the region, which do not revolve around tax dodging.



I think Trump said first day we need to help them, but we also need to fix their debt issue, and it is going to cost a lot. Someone somewhere on that island is benefiting from all this, or why have a tax haven in the first place? They need industries and I would think tax cuts for physical industries on the island would go a long way to help compared to a one office dummy headquarters setup for a tax haven.


edit on 20-10-2017 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 01:36 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
Of course who is it that thinks the billions of money lent from US banks weren't stolen by corrupt officials in the first place before the Hurricane?

And who thinks now that the banks want to foreclose on that outstanding debt, stealing the whole island to make over into an international tourist Mecca?

The only trouble with that plan is all the civilians still there.


Yeah so just starve 'em off the island and take over!



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 01:45 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero


I think Trump said first day we need to help them, but we also need to fix their debt issue, and it is going to cost a lot.
He said we have to "wipe out" the debt.
Idiot.

Correction. Moron.


edit on 10/21/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:29 AM
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Occam's razor people. The simple explanation is that you have an island that has been destroyed by a major hurricane that has limited to no way of communication with other towns on this large island. It is not the same thing as the response seen after the hurricanes that hit the US mainland as you cannot drive to an island. Resources were prepped for Texas and Florida ahead of time with a quick response since you're able to drive right into the affected area. Relief aid is having to come by ships that can only move so quick and can only hold so many supplies. You also need to be able to get the supplies to communities by way of destroyed and debris filled roads. This is not a grand conspiracy. It is simply a massive natural disaster that is throwing extra challenges in the way of relief.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 06:46 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

You forget one thing they would have to pay federal taxes,a burden the citizens currently dont have to deal with. And it would set a mandatory minimum wage for the island. Meaning no more cash transaction they would need payrolls to handle taxes.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 07:13 AM
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There is no way Puerto Rico will become a state under the current administration because they will vote democrat.

My understanding is most Puerto Ricans are in favor of becoming a state.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 07:25 AM
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originally posted by: Flatfish
GotNews.com is pure, unadulterated crap.

And the "legitimate" MSM is better? Only if it aligns with your thinking. Today's MSM are so consumed with nitpicking Trump that they can't get to real news. I don't know anything about GotNews but on the surface, I don't see any difference between them and CNN.

This is something that should be investigated. Journalists used to do that but in this case, it doesn't fit the agenda so they won't put any effort into it.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 07:42 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

The tax haven element does not benefit the island or the islanders. It benefits people who have moved there from the US and elsewhere, to avoid paying taxes, and businesses which have moved there, to avoid paying taxes.

Literally the only people benefiting from that situation, are the powerful people and entities who have utilised that loophole. They also, its worth mentioning, are the very sort of people who can afford to lobby government and members thereof, to maintain the situation as it is at the moment, by vetoing any change to the status of the island which might interfere with their profit margins, and their ability to avoid as much tax as possible.

Meanwhile, the island suffers, the mainland U.S.A. suffers (because taxes which would otherwise be owed to it, are being avoided successfully), and the people most sorely affected by the problem continue to be powerless to actually solve it.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: intrptr
Of course who is it that thinks the billions of money lent from US banks weren't stolen by corrupt officials in the first place before the Hurricane?

And who thinks now that the banks want to foreclose on that outstanding debt, stealing the whole island to make over into an international tourist Mecca?

The only trouble with that plan is all the civilians still there.


Yeah so just starve 'em off the island and take over!

Exactly. And they didn't even have to drop any bombs.



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 07:02 AM
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originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: Flatfish
GotNews.com is pure, unadulterated crap.

And the "legitimate" MSM is better? Only if it aligns with your thinking. Today's MSM are so consumed with nitpicking Trump that they can't get to real news. I don't know anything about GotNews but on the surface, I don't see any difference between them and CNN.

This is something that should be investigated. Journalists used to do that but in this case, it doesn't fit the agenda so they won't put any effort into it.


Yes, the MSM is definitely “much” better!

They’re all over Trump because he’s a dumb assed piece of crap who is unworthy to hold the office of POTUS and he proves it in one way or another, every time he opens his mouth.

MSM is not covering this story because it’s a bogus story based on outright lies.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 08:54 AM
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originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Who benefits from throwing away invaluable food supplies like this in a time of crisis? Could it have been a mistake? Or willful negligence?

If this was done knowingly, it's nothing short of criminal.


Puerto Ricans overhwelmingly voted to become a US State, but the US government has never moved to make this happen.
Other than making Trump and the US look inept, there are also those that still want Puerto Rico to be Independent.
edit on 23-10-2017 by ChrisM101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 08:28 PM
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originally posted by: jrod
There is no way Puerto Rico will become a state under the current administration because they will vote democrat.

My understanding is most Puerto Ricans are in favor of becoming a state.


Wrong. Most Puerto Ricans are too much to the left, even more than democrats.


edit on 23-10-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

This story is not about Trump and whatever you want to invent. So either stay on topic or go join another Trump thread in the mud pit.

I posted the news exactly as they came out, and presented evidence supporting what I wrote. Not until the twitter feed did Marin say that "it was in a garbage truck". The food was left in the open, and it spoiled. Food that is needed by people who are going hungry. But only a far leftist would claim this is fake news...



posted on Oct, 24 2017 @ 08:28 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Flatfish

This story is not about Trump and whatever you want to invent. So either stay on topic or go join another Trump thread in the mud pit.

I posted the news exactly as they came out, and presented evidence supporting what I wrote. Not until the twitter feed did Marin say that "it was in a garbage truck". The food was left in the open, and it spoiled. Food that is needed by people who are going hungry. But only a far leftist would claim this is fake news...


Hell, I could post 90% of what Trump says, exactly like he said it and it would still be bold faced lies. It’s not about posting things exactly how they “came out,” it’s about posting truth and calling out lies and disinformation for what it is, regardless of where it originates.

YOUR SOURCE FOR THE STORY, (GotNews.com) IS CRAP!

FAKE NEWS IS WHAT THEY DO!

This is fake news and only the willfully ignorant will refuse to admit it.

Oh yeah, I will post what I want to post, where and when I want to post it and you have neither the power or ability to stop me.

Keep posting crap like this and I’ll be there to call you out, you can bank on it.

It’s called resisting the lies and denying ignorance.

Furthermore, keep posting this kind of crap and you’ll quickly establish your own reputation as a source for false and/or fake news here on ATS as well.

Here on ATS, you are what you post and right now you’re the source of another lying assed fake news story.
edit on 24-10-2017 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)




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