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originally posted by: thepixelpusher
a reply to: joelr
CSI has their own distorted reality that they judge things from. Not a credible source.
originally posted by: joelr
originally posted by: mirageman
Now talking of the moon....
A UFO intercepting a nuclear missile under test from Vandenburg AF base in 1964 is discussed by Lt Robert Jacobs. The missile was not armed and was merely a dummy. Jacobs was assigned to the test as telescope site commander and claims that when viewing the film later it showed a UFO firing beams of light at the missile under test.
Bob Jacobs tells the same story for CNN
However his tale has been refuted by the project initiator and engineer Kingston A. George on numerous occasions.
........photography showed that the decoys did not deploy properly after the main propulsion phase ended and were surrounded by pieces of Styrofoam packing from their launch tubes. Thus, the “real” warhead, released before the decoys and without the packing, stuck out like a sore thumb.
The Strategic Air Command (SAC) headquarter analysts subsequently recognized this as a shortcoming of a major weapons system and classified the film as top secret. Film footage seen up to the time of this new classification was the origin of Jacobs’s fantasy, as his security level was not high enough to handle the film or talk about it after re-classification. Nor was mine, at that time, but my clearance level was increased very soon thereafter.
Full story & Source : www.csicop.org...
You can, of course, choose who to believe. But if aliens were really after nuclear weapons why bother taking this particular ‘dummy’ one out when over 2,000 nuclear weapons have been tested to date?
Moving on - Bob Salas retells the Malmstrom story of a UFO shutting down missiles.
Salas is another witness who didn’t actually see anything for himself during an alleged UFO incident. He was in a control bunker below ground. He claims UFOs were reported by guards at Malmstrom Air Force in 1967 before the nuclear missiles started shutting down one by one.
The story is disputed to this day but official conclusions were that mechanical failure rather than UFOs caused the missile faults. See: timhebert.blogspot.co.uk...
Salas still has his supporters but the documented evidence does not back him up.
Source : P11 - Sunlite 3-2
And so....it’s good to see Richard Doty return and tell us that aliens were watching the nuclear detonations of WWII and arrived here to figure out what was going on. It is never explained how they detected these explosions, nor where the aliens came from.
Wow, so that Jacobs story has been debunked. Hmmm, god damn it. Is the Salas story fully debunked too?
This is dissapointing but really good to know the truth.
Anyway, Steven Greer is full of B.S.
I'm starting to think every ufo story is just some form of BS.
originally posted by: Outlier13
originally posted by: muzzleflash
I have a really nuanced view on this whole subject though:
E.T. is almost certainly real and visiting Earth, but all of the people who discuss E.T. in any depth are generally talking out of their # because they far too often claim specifics that they'd have no way of knowing either way.
You do realize you are admitting your entire abduction story was not real by making this statement don't you?
originally posted by: thepixelpusher
a reply to: Harte
That would be like combing through a Sorcha Fal article on Before Its News.
originally posted by: Harte
originally posted by: thepixelpusher
a reply to: Harte
That would be like combing through a Sorcha Fal article on Before Its News.
Pretty much what I expected.
So, the facts in the article stand, whether you like the source or not.
Harte
In his latest article in the January/February 2009 issue of Skeptical Inquirer, titled "Buzzing Bee Missile Mythology Flies Again," Kingston George admits that he has belatedly reviewed some of Jacobs' and Mansmann's letters. Even a cursory examination of the correspondence will reveal why George does not quote from it and attempts to rush past the subject as quickly and superficially as possible, given that the letters thoroughly demolish his own bogus claims about the Big Sur UFO Incident.
originally posted by: mirageman
Roswell, UFOs & Nukes
A UFO intercepting a nuclear missile under test from Vandenburg AF base in 1964 is discussed by Lt Robert Jacobs. The missile was not armed and was merely a dummy. Jacobs was assigned to the test as telescope site commander and claims that when viewing the film later it showed a UFO firing beams of light at the missile under test.
You can, of course, choose who to believe. But if aliens were really after nuclear weapons why bother taking this particular ‘dummy’ one out when over 2,000 nuclear weapons have been tested to date?
Both Jacobs and Hastings mention SAC Major Florenz Mansmann Jr., who was the photographic support coordinator for the First Strategic Aerospace Division at Vandenberg AFB. I have reviewed post-retirement letters purported to be from Mansmann, and they indicate that he agrees, in general, with Jacobs’s conjectures.
The Air Force (at least initially, not sure about recent years) denied Jacobs even worked at the base.
originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: clt1994
I said in the OP :
You can, of course, choose who to believe. But if aliens were really after nuclear weapons why bother taking this particular ‘dummy’ one out when over 2,000 nuclear weapons have been tested to date?
So if it was an ET intervention then why do they mess around with a dummy warhead and do nothing about other real ones? My point in the context of the OP was that Greer treats it all on face value as if it was ET. The evidence is far from solid for that.
Both Jacobs and Hastings mention SAC Major Florenz Mansmann Jr., who was the photographic support coordinator for the First Strategic Aerospace Division at Vandenberg AFB. I have reviewed post-retirement letters purported to be from Mansmann, and they indicate that he agrees, in general, with Jacobs’s conjectures.
Does one man's alleged review of letters 'purported' to be from Mansmann really prove Jacobs story?
The Air Force (at least initially, not sure about recent years) denied Jacobs even worked at the base.
What evidence of that assertion exists other than people saying that was the case?
Also the letter mentions this was part of a 'Star Wars' test. Back in 1964?
If we assume everything else is true about the reality of the 'object' then the answer is there in that letter.
But why should we trust one anecdotal source over another?
If only the film was available hey?
In 1997, Greer, along with other members of CSETI, including Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell, made a presentation at a background briefing for members of Congress.[17] In 1998, Greer gave up his career as an emergency room physician in favor of the Disclosure Project.[18][19]
In May 2001, Greer held a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. that featured 20 retired Air Force, Federal Aviation Administration and intelligence officers.[2][20][21][22][23][24] According to a 2002 report in the Oregon Daily Emerald, Greer has gathered 120 hours of testimony from civilians and various government and military officials, including astronaut Gordon Cooper and a brigadier general, on the topic of UFOs
Hynek was an associate member of the Robertson Panel, which recommended that UFOs needed debunking. A few years later, however, Hynek's opinions about UFOs changed, and he thought they represented an unsolved mystery deserving scientific scrutiny. As the only scientist involved with US Government UFO studies from the beginning to the end, he could offer a unique perspective on Projects Sign, Grudge, and Blue Book.
After what he described as a promising beginning with a potential for scientific research, Hynek grew increasingly disenchanted with Blue Book during his tenure with the project, leveling accusations of indifference, incompetence, and of shoddy research on the part of Air Force personnel. Hynek notes that during its existence, critics dubbed Blue Book "The Society for the Explanation of the Uninvestigated.
I also dont know why you refer to the letter as "purportedly". It's either genuine or its not in your eyes.
...Both Jacobs and Hastings mention SAC Major Florenz Mansmann Jr., who was the photographic support coordinator for the First Strategic Aerospace Division at Vandenberg AFB. I have reviewed post-retirement letters purported to be from Mansmann, and they indicate that he agrees, in general, with Jacobs’s conjectures.
You don't trash such a career when you're in for the money.....
You didn't really think this through, did you?
“They were told not to excite the public. Don’t rock the boat”
Sorry what exactly was your point about Hynek?
A friend of mine is emergency room physician as well. Rough job but a good kickstarter for a fine career, you don't throw all this away to sell some books
......you told us that he has a lust for cash and I'm unable to see it - care to provide some evidence?
...There are numerous posts in the forums about his outlandish false claims, his lust for cash, uncontrolled ego and Messiah complex.
....Corroboration of stories via another gubbermint program, that scrutinized the UFO phenomena. Greers collection of testemony[sic] just got a tad more interesting with this.
originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: clt1994
I also dont know why you refer to the letter as "purportedly". It's either genuine or its not in your eyes.
Because that's what it says in the CSICOP source you cited and have even posted it in your own response.
But without the film and further information it remains an unresolved UFO story.
...Both Jacobs and Hastings mention SAC Major Florenz Mansmann Jr., who was the photographic support coordinator for the First Strategic Aerospace Division at Vandenberg AFB. I have reviewed post-retirement letters purported to be from Mansmann, and they indicate that he agrees, in general, with Jacobs’s conjectures.
www.csicop.org...
originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: clt1994
I said in the OP :
You can, of course, choose who to believe. But if aliens were really after nuclear weapons why bother taking this particular ‘dummy’ one out when over 2,000 nuclear weapons have been tested to date?
So if it was an ET intervention then why do they mess around with a dummy warhead and do nothing about other real ones? My point in the context of the OP was that Greer treats it all on face value as if it was ET. The evidence is far from solid for that.
Both Jacobs and Hastings mention SAC Major Florenz Mansmann Jr., who was the photographic support coordinator for the First Strategic Aerospace Division at Vandenberg AFB. I have reviewed post-retirement letters purported to be from Mansmann, and they indicate that he agrees, in general, with Jacobs’s conjectures.
Does one man's alleged review of letters 'purported' to be from Mansmann really prove Jacobs story?
The Air Force (at least initially, not sure about recent years) denied Jacobs even worked at the base.
What evidence of that assertion exists other than people saying that was the case?
Also the letter mentions this was part of a 'Star Wars' test. Back in 1964?
If we assume everything else is true about the reality of the 'object' then the answer is there in that letter.
But why should we trust one anecdotal source over another?
If only the film was available hey?