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Why do conservatives always find themselves on the wrong side of history?

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posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

Folks can’t even make a determination between what right and left and conservative and liberal mean.

They regurgitate what their media fills them with.




posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Indeed.

I find it amusing that some here are falling back on 'the KKK was democrat' and 'slave owners were democrat' nonsense. I thought this was cleared up already.

Right back to the echochamber they went.



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian


LOL, a propos of nothing and no one in particular “primate see; primate do.”



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian
It didn't help with the fact that it was conservative southerners who lead the opposition against desegregation at both the State and Federal level during the 60s.

And no let's not use the excuse that the main reason for conservative opposition to desegration back then was purely that of 'States rights' and the constitution. Conservatives supported these laws themselves and attempted to enforce them in their respective states through their OWN state legislatures on their very own residents. Unfortunately for these conservative groups they suffered a loss in this battle thanks to the Civil Rights Act.

More recently it was conservatives couldn't stand for gays and lesbians gaining the right to marriage. That fell with Obergefell v. Hodges a mere two years ago. Another loss

The list goes on. It goes on.

-State enforced segegration of public schools? Yep, deep red Kansas, pushed by conservatives. Shot down in 55' by the Supreme Court case of Brown V. Board of Education. Another loss.

-Slavery? Was enforced overwhelmingly by red southern conservative states. Brought down by the loss of the Civil War and the emancipation proclamation.

-Abortion? The decision on whether women have the right to choose. Conservatives lead the charge against granting this right to women. Brought down by the Roe V. Wade ruling of 73'. Another loss.

I mean we look at all these major social turning points in history, and I always seem to find those on the right to be on the wrong side, the losing side, the side that wanted to maintain the status quo.

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong? Let me know. Also let me know about positive events, turning points, where conservatives supported and liberals opposed? The Iraq war? Mission accomplished right? Tax cuts for the rich? Cliven Bundy? Fox news? Christ. I can't think of anything.

Throw some mud at me. Tell me I'm partisan. I only see facts.


Really? Well, conservatives were on the right side of the civil war, democrats being the south, republicans being the north, a republican president who also signed the Emancipation Proclamation. Republican's also signed the civil rights act of 1964. I mean, you sit there and try to blame republicans without even noticing that Abraham Lincoln was a republican. SMH.

In 1860, Lincoln secured the Republican Party presidential nomination as a moderate from a swing state, though most delegates originally favored other candidates. Though he gained very little support in the slaveholding states of the South, he swept the North and was elected president in 1860.

So looks like you need to read up about it. Both of these republican presidents were assassinated with gun shots to the head for standing up for minorities and freeing them from oppression.

Democratic policy builds more regulation or removes the solid regulations that actually make sense, it was Clinton who caused the housing bubble through the tampering of said regulations -- namely, the removal of the Glass-Steagall Act and the implementation of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, bush floated on the bubble, and it popped right as he was about to leave office.

It's the democrats that want a 15$ an hour minimum wage, which has been instated in at least two states, both New York and Washington, and the reports out of both NYC and Seattle are showing the exact predicted result, LESS job availability. So in order for McDonald's to pay 15$ an hour wages for example, they have to fire people, and those that remain must work harder for that amount of money, which produces more hours and more work for less people, it's a net loss. The report is that it costs about 140$ a day for everyone in Seattle to have a 15$ an hour minimum. I.E. Leftists don't understand how economy works and every policy they make on the subject of economics just leads to more poor/homeless people and actually removes upward financial mobility. The irony here, is -- the problem is so bad, that even left leaning liberal biased news media is reporting that it's a failure, because it's so big of a failure.

A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news for liberals

The only one of your examples that is accurate is the one of abortion, which being a conservative myself -- I find deplorable. The problem here is that conservatives generally are extremely religious and they legislate based on their interpretation of scripture, and the entire reason they want abortion illegal is solely one of religious intent, and that's a clear moral failing, especially when we're supposed to have a separation of church and state.

Outside of that, it was republicans who freed the slaves, republicans who gave "black" people full constitutional rights.

As for conservatives and the right to marry? It's conservatives who want the government to get OUT of the marriage game. That's a religious belief and construct, marriage is useless, it's a government license that doesn't need to be a government license. As it stands, there are ways of obtaining the same tax breaks through domestic partnership as there is with marriage, so there is no absolute reason for anyone to NEED to get married, nor is there any reason what-so-ever that the government needs to uphold these ideologies and religious beliefs.

The conservatives only failing, is that they can't seem to separate church and state, outside of that -- they are literally on the winning side of every major social advancement we've made since the dawn of the United States.

Democratic policy created ghetto's, democratic policy creates poverty and dependency on government, democrats want bigger government, which is why they create dependency in the first place. Democrats are against your rights, and democrats are the ones that try to implement socialist policies when there is no solution to the scarcity issues that lead capitalism to be the highest success rates of any post-industrial government systems. Republicans made America great, period. I mean, it's democrats who want to remove the second amendment, it's the democrats who also attack the 1st and the 14th. You don't see republicans trying to neuter your constitutional rights.

The idea that republicans are racist is flawed, democrats are the racists, they just pretend not to be to get the minority vote. It's clear and written and recorded in history, that democratic policy is BAD for everyone, including the people who vote democrat.
edit on 15-10-2017 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

There was not a shift you bought on to a false narrative. The dixie crats stayed in the Democratic party. They even had a klan leader Robert Byrd who was and exalted cyclops in the KKK. The democrats didn't change at all other then deciding selling racism became ineffective in the 90s.


edit on 10/15/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/15/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 03:21 PM
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I believe the negative issues we see in society today have a direct relation between us falling away from God and/or family values. Marriage traditionally was a means to transfer one's property to their wife and/or children. Christians consider marriage the sacrament of Matrimony between a man & woman to become one in order to have children. I have nothing against the union between same sexes but imo it's not marriage. As far as abortion goes, imo it's between the woman & God or whatever other entity she worships or maybe the father & no one else's business.

The government is the new father figure to most women. It rewards bad choices with financial rewards. There are unmarried welfare queens out there who have multiple children with multiple fathers, just to get more welfare benefits. The courts are also bias, favoring women in divorce cases, rewarding them with half of a man's assets, regardless how much he's worth, again rewarding women for bad choices in many cases. I'm fine with divorce for abuse or infidelity circumstances but they shouldn't automatically be given half a man's wealth.

Now to the political divide. I'm against all career politicians, I believe political office is a service, not a career. This is why I voted for Trump. It was the 1st time I ever voted, I'm 38. I believe Trump being elected may have saved our country, from things far worse, like Communism. During Obama's 1st election I was for him but did not vote. Around half way through his 1st term I realized he was trying to destroy our country. The other choice during this past election was Hillary, who supported her sexual predator husband, as well as, Huma Abedin (also had a sexual predator husband, Anthony Weiner), along with Obama, who have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood (Huma Abedin & Obama), which is in favor of the global implementation or Sharia Law, as well as, supporting many Nazi ideals throughout history. According to PEW research center @ half of Muslims worldwide support the implementation of Sharia Law. These career politicians are also friends with pedophiles like Jeffrey Epstein & sexual predators like Harvey Weinstein. Joe Biden is also known to have sexual predator issues.

Now for the Deep State/Shadow government. Big banks, big oil, big agriculture, pharmaceutical industry, technologocal industry & the military industrial complex are the main funders of MSM through advertising, as evident by their commercials. This in conjunction with corrupt career politicians, forms the Deep State/Shadow government. Here are some of the fascist ties during Obama's presidency.
1) ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, Obama's National Security Adviser.
2) CBS President David Rhodes is the brother of Ben Rhodes, Obama’s Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications.
3) ABC News correspondent Claire Shipman is married to former Obama Whitehouse Press Secretary Jay Carney.
4) ABC News and Univision reporter Matthew Jaffe is married to Katie Hogan, Obama’s Deputy Press Secretary.
5) ABC President Ben Sherwood is the brother of Obama’s Special Adviser Elizabeth Sherwood.
6) CNN President Virginia Moseley is married to former Hillary Clinton’s Deputy Secretary Tom Nides.

How we got here. In 1913 the Federal Reserve Bank was established. Every economic downturn & war/conflict since was caused by the Federal Reserve. A Fed member named Prescott Bush even helped fund Hitler's rise to power. In 1933 the constitution was suspended, allowing for laws like asset forfeiture. In 1971, when our country went bankrupt, Nixon took us off the gold standard with a promise to go back to it in the future. Since then, the US dollar has lost @ 90% of its value & it now takes 2 heads of a household in order to raise a family instead of one. This was helped out by the feminist movement, which encouraged women to be independent of men & not have kids until they hit the wall between ages 30 & 40.

My solution. If we get rid of all federal social/welfare benefits (end the racketeering), each person who is over 18 & does not receive a federal pension, regardless if they have a job or not, can receive an @ $25K per year Universal Basic Income. This can be done without raising taxes. People could then use that money to pay for housing, food, health insurance, college, etc. In the free market. The minimum wage could also be eliminated with a UBI & family values may be restored because 2 parent household would have more money vs. 1 parent households to raise kids.

edit on 15-10-2017 by JBIZZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: Lab4Us
Lol...OP...being the Liberal you are, keep expecting the government to care for you and yours.

I, and other Conservatives like me, will continue to try and make our way the best we can by actually earning what we have and not having everything handed to us by Uncle Sugar (slang for US Government).



This in part is the problem, you are happy to do this, it is your will, the problem comes when people try to exert their will on others and invariably ends up being the determining factor in "the wrong side of history".

Tell me, whilst you are happy to earn your own way, why do you think it is okay in return to rubbish anyone who doesn't?

Did you ever stop to consider, perhaps their calling is different to yours, their driven by different goals.

You earn your way good for you, however if free will truly was a thing then those who aren't driven by material greed shouldn't be forced to follow what you choose to do so willingly.

For me the wrong side of history denotes actively condemning an individuals freedom of expression and suppressing their will to forge their life the way they see fit, a prime example is one of homosexuality, not that I am saying they choose this, however this is who they are, for years it was illegal, yet now is considered "acceptable" this is a positive step forward, for anyone who was against it in the past it squarely places them on the wrong side of history, as free will and freedom of self expression won the day.

I don't wish to derail the thread with my example, yet hope it illustrates how I see the wrong side of history is characterised.



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 05:24 PM
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By the OP's logic, the Soviet Union, Maoist China, and Khmer Rouge were conservatives! So were the Democrats that fervently fought against freeing the slaves, blocked women's suffrage for almost two decades, and created the two biggest racial hate groups in America.

It seems like everyone before the 90's was a conservative! Crazy man.



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: solargeddon

I would be perfectly happy to let collectivists ... well collectivize. The problem is that they theorize the only way they can make their programs and grand schemes work is if they force everyone (including me and people like the person you responded to) to take part in them.

So you ask yourself that question you asked us ... why is it that we must be forced to go along with your schemes and be a part of your collective? Why can't you just go off on your own and collectivize with others who want to? Why must you always force us to come along with?

And inevitably, the answer is that we can always do what we want *if* we can afford it *after* we pay for whatever it is you want collectivized.

Say, you can have your own private health care *after* you pay for the socialized/collectivized care for us ... You can pay for your kids to go to private school *after* you pay for the socialized/collectivized schooling for us ... and so on and so forth.

You never seem to stop and consider that people who don't want to collectivize because they want things tailored to their unique situations in life and their families aren't requesting that because they are wealthy and made of money but because they truly do want to best deal they can get and aren't willing to simply settle for whatever they can be handed and don't have to feel like they made the effort to pay for in some way.

And when you force us to pay for this ... and that ... and that other thing over there ... and then this thing you just thought of the greater good demands ... or that thing we all can't live without ... etc., it adds up and pretty soon, I can't afford to pay for all those things you told me I could always buy after I paid for those things you wanted so we simply *had* to collectivize.



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 08:23 PM
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I would suggest that one major reason conservatives find themselves on the wrong side of history (if they do) is that liberals have a penchant for re-writing it to suit their agendas.



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I would suggest that one major reason conservatives find themselves on the wrong side of history (if they do) is that liberals have a penchant for re-writing it to suit their agendas.


When you are the major faction in academia and the media, that makes it easy to do.



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 09:04 PM
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And the conservatives are against national health care, as they were against Social security, unemployment insurance, unions, gay rights, black rights, woman’s rights, and everything that indicates social, spiritual, or human progress.



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

They act according to Bible.



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 09:34 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
And the conservatives are against national health care, as they were against Social security, unemployment insurance, unions, gay rights, black rights, woman’s rights, and everything that indicates social, spiritual, or human progress.


See my post above.

But I'll break it down again even simpler for you.

This is how progressive policies seem to be.

Progressives see a crime. Some people are too poor to buy their own milk. Most everyone agrees that this is a bad thing. However, the progressive answer is that the government should provide free milk to everyone, and the government program is that everyone will be taxed the equivalent of $5/week from now on in order to provide every two people with one half gallon of skim milk for free.

Nevermind that some people are lactose intolerant and get sick. There will be no special milk provided for them. Nevermind that some research shows that skim milk is actually not very healthy because the beneficial milk fats have been removed but all the sugars have been put back in leaving you with sugar water. Nevermind that people may not actually like skim milk at all and would prefer to buy 2% or Whole milk. Nevermind that only a half gallon might be completely inadequate to the weekly consumption needs of some households ...

You are now going to be taxed the equivalent of $5/week to provide this amazing thing whether you want it, need it, or can actually use it. And if you want something else, well, you better hope you have room in your grocery budget after taxes to provide what you actually want. Oh, and since so much milk will be used to make that free skim everyone gets, what's left over will get that much more expensive because it's now a boutique product.

And it's not just the so-called rich who may or may not be able to use this new astounding benefit we're all forced to have. Poor people are just as prone to lactose intolerance.

But, hey! Who cares? The milk is there and the intentions of progressives were good and most people are just glad to have something. Amirite?



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: SaturnFX


False equivalency. but nice try.

I take it you have a different view for the same thing there, but simply don't want to answer due to ideological purity.

Terrible try



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 10:10 PM
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originally posted by: themold
a reply to: Willtell

They act according to Bible.



What Bible ?


Are Republican Conservatives True Christians ?






Jesus said: Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Proverbs 29:7 “The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.”

Deuteronomy 15:10 “Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.”

Psalm 41:1 “Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble.”

Proverbs 19:17 “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.”

Proverbs 22:9 “A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.”

Isaiah 58:10 "And if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday."

Jeremiah 7:5-7 "If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever."

Matthew 19:20 “‘All these I have kept,’ the young man said. ‘What do I still lack?’ Jesus answered, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’"

Luke 14:12-14 "Then Jesus said to his host, ‘When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.’"

Luke 12:33-34 "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”

Isaiah 10:1-3 " Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches?”

Jeremiah 5:28 “‘Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor. ‘Should I not punish them for this?’ declares the LORD. ‘Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this?’”
Amos 5:12 “For I know how many are your offenses and how great your sins. You oppress the righteous and take bribes and you deprive the poor of justice in the courts.”

Luke 6:24 " But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort."
Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”
Proverbs 19:17 “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.”
1 John 3:17 But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him

John 3:18 Little children, let us stop just saying we love people; let us really love them, and show it by our actions.

1 Sam. 2:8 He lifts the poor from the dust-- Yes, from a pile of ashes-- And treats them as princes sitting in the seats of honor. For all the earth is the Lord's And he has set the world in order.

Prov. 19:17 When you help the poor you are lending to the Lord--and he pays wonderful interest on your loan!

Prov. 14:31 Anyone who oppresses the poor is insulting God who made them. To help the poor is to honor God.
James 1:27 The Christian who is pure and without fault, from God the Father's point of view, is the one who takes care of orphans and widows, and who remains true to the Lord--not soiled and dirtied by his contacts with the world.

Psa. 82:3 Give fair judgment to the poor man, the afflicted, the fatherless, the destitute.

Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and helpless from the grasp of evil men.

Prov. 28:27 If you give to the poor, your needs will be supplied! But a curse upon those who close their eyes to poverty.




posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 10:45 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

And did Jesus say the government was only this can be accomplished? And did Jesus say that we should use the government to force everyone to give the way *we* (meaning you or progressives) think *they* should give? Or was Jesus calling *you* the single individual to give of your own will because it is the right thing to do, and if everyone made that free decision to give, which is called charity not welfare, then this world would be a much better place?

Why is government the only entity capable of doing what Jesus wants you, the individual, to do?



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 10:58 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

In theory the government is the people.

I’m sure Jesus wouldn’t be against a government aiding the extreme poor.

Conservatives put up this straw man argument about government. Government is hired to use the people’s resources wisely and justly, that includes aiding those in the country in dire poverty.

Read the general welfare clause of the US constitution



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 11:03 PM
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As a conservative, we are the only reason this country isn't a communist hell-hole. Seems like coming out on the right side of history to me. Unfortunately government-run schools mostly hire liberal propagandists as teachers, so you will only get liberal propaganda as "education".



posted on Oct, 15 2017 @ 11:08 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Taxation and issuance of same is largely for "provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare of" which is taken in a military context. It is not meant to create and maintain a welfare state of dependent people. Not that those in dire need should be turned away but it is generally understood that the state governments are responsible for the individuals needs within that state and the federal government is responsible for the country. One of the founding principles of the Constitution is that it is NOT meant to govern the daily lives of individuals but rather provide a means of the common man to self govern the nation while the states maintain the infrastructure necessary for their constituents.



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