UK Asylum, Muslims

To whom ever is interested or concerned --

In my opinion asylum seekers/Pakistani's/Indians are just a fraction of the problems that concern the UK today. I live in a town of approximately 100,000 residents, of which 53% are of ethnics making the native British residents the minority in this particular town. This isn't just happening to one isolated town, this problem is growing in most of the UK. It has to be said that most of the non-ethnics are of Islam faith, which in my opinion is the cause for a racial/religious segregation causing conflict etc. I am only 22 years old and my hatred for these muslim invaders has been growing since the age of 6. I know that I might sound like a racist, but it is more of a religious thing rather than a race thing. You must understand that I haven't been brought up to hate these people and I do know that its wrong to hate anyone. My parents are in no way responsible, if anything they are ignorant to the problems we face in the future. All my beliefs have grown through my own experiences and observations.

It is a statistical fact that if things carry on the way they are, in sixty years the white native people of England will become the minority to the ethnics, this is unacceptable and in turn will spread to the other countries of the UK. Maybe I wouldn't mind if these people tried to integrate with us more, or even acknoweledge us as human beings. Taking into consideration that there is always going to be anomosity from both sides, but they are living in our country, with our rules and should make the effort to live in a way that will cause less friction. Instead of doing this they group together in close-nit neighbourhoods/Towns and then grow creating their own little bangledesh, leeching off our taxes, sucking us dry. We are currently letting hundreds of asylum seekers in the UK each day, not including the hundreds that are brought over to marry the 18 year old muslim boys/girls (most of them being their own cousins). Oh and I forgot to tell you that on average muslims out breed us 3-1.

My experiences of these ethnics have been very unpleasant -- I have been a victim of numerous unprovoked violent attacks, on one occasion I was stabbed with a screw driver. I am not saying that this is all one way, and that they aren't victims of the same treatment aswell, there are good and bad people of every race/religion, i am just giving you an example of what can happen between divided religion/race communities. Anyway, to shed more light on the subject -- Imagine the whole process in reverse, imagine that we were the ones flooding India or Pakistan, imagine that we were building corner shops on every other street and that we were building thousands of our churches on their soil like they do with their mosques. To be honest its pretty hard to imagine because first of all it wouldn't be allowed to happen, and second if it did happen, our houses and religious monuments would be burnt down and most of us would be tormented/abused back to our homeland or even murdered and put on the net to be a warning to any other christians that decide to make residence in their country. I'm not saying that we should do the same, i just think we should at least make things a little tougher for people to be accepted in to our country.

A lot of these people are now British because they were born here. Ok, so if they are patriotic British born and bred and proud of it why don't they support their birth land, I never see them supporting England against Pakistan at cricket, or Scotland vs India at football. In any coversation or debate they always refer to themselves as being Pakistani or Indian etc. They will use their British status when it suits them best ie - Claiming Benefits.

We are losing our identity as a nation and there is not enough people taking action. Half of me wants to fight for what I believe in, but the other half wants to f**k the UK for its political ignorance and move to a different country like Australia where they are tougher with their laws on asylum. Not all of what I said refers to every last Pakistani or Indian etc, I am referring to the majority of islams on most things.

Enock Powell knew this bull# would happen all along, why didn't anyone listen to him.

Any constructive criticism or opinions are welcome. If you are going to offend or abuse me, don't bother, it will just go in one ear and out the other.

With a username like Enoch Powell, and the recent 'neo-nazi' alerts, I have a sneaking suspicion that you will be put on global ignore.....

But to respond to your post I will say this, immigration in its current state is akin to national suicide.

Enoch Powell wasnt that extreme ffs- his rivers of blood speech could have been scripted for what happened in Bradford, Oldham etc

Enock Powell, I'm sure that your Country, the UK, is one that is considered free in our World today. Maybe this is why you are getting a flood of people from other Countries where the standard of living is not as high as the UK. Going on the idea that the UK is one of freedom, then why can't you allow people to move about and live their lives in freedom? Rather than creating any type of conflict, why not try to create harmony?

Rather than seeing it as a problem, why not see it as an opportunity? An opportunity to show the World that the UK is a place where anybody who desires freedom can live and work.

If you are from the Christian faith, then why not practice the principles of your faith? I'm sure Jesus would want to see Harmony, rather than conflict.

Interesting post Enock.

You don't like pople emigrating to England, even though the English were themselves originally emigrants and you're considering emigrating elsewhere yourself.....

Makes you a pretty confused, ignorant, bigot if you ask me.

To stem the flow of immigrants to a nation is not racsist or bigot-like. The English, French or Germans have a millenia-old culture behind them. To try and protect that is not rascist in any form. Especially when dealing with foreigners whose top-agenda is the destruction of the West.

If a Westerner were to immigrate to, say for example, Iran, how would he be viewed? Isn't the Persian culture also 1000 years old? What if that same Westerner was a precursor to a mass immigration of Englishmen to Iran, seeking a better life( hypothetically of course)? What if they formed their own neighborhoods in Tehran, and had no desire to learn the Farsi language? As their political strength grew, they demanded English to be taught in all Iranian schools. While more and more Englishmen started to pour in, work visas became more scarce. So they started dealing in drugs and prostitutes.

Would your average Iranian have a problem with this?
Would Iran be called a rascist nation because they want to halt the flow of immigrants into their society?

Or is it just the "evil" Western nations that can be called 'bigots'?

I was just using Iran as an example, because they are the farthest point on the spectrum when compared to England.

Originally posted by Essan
Interesting post Enock.

You don't like pople emigrating to England, even though the English were themselves originally emigrants and you're considering emigrating elsewhere yourself.....

Makes you a pretty confused, ignorant, bigot if you ask me.

what utter nonsense- the cultural and racial makeup of England remained largely unchanged for a relatively long period of time- it is only in the last 50 years that this excessive forced change has occurred.

Originally posted by IMMORTAL
Enock Powell, I'm sure that your Country, the UK, is one that is considered free in our World today. Maybe this is why you are getting a flood of people from other Countries where the standard of living is not as high as the UK. Going on the idea that the UK is one of freedom, then why can't you allow people to move about and live their lives in freedom? Rather than creating any type of conflict, why not try to create harmony?

Rather than seeing it as a problem, why not see it as an opportunity? An opportunity to show the World that the UK is a place where anybody who desires freedom can live and work.

If you are from the Christian faith, then why not practice the principles of your faith? I'm sure Jesus would want to see Harmony, rather than conflict.

all fine and dandy in la la land, but anyway back to reality, this is clearly impossible in practice- England is one of the most overcrowded nations on earth, and anyway, it should be up to the people of England to decide on immigration levels.

Just as it is a perfectly understandable apsiration to want to emigrate to the relative land of milk and honey, it is also understandable for the indigenous host people to not wish to be overrun.

Originally posted by Essan
Interesting post Enock.

You don't like pople emigrating to England, even though the English were themselves originally emigrants and you're considering emigrating elsewhere yourself.....

Makes you a pretty confused, ignorant, bigot if you ask me.

again simplistic nonsense, if you wanna go that far back in history then we all emigrated from somewhere and I think its going to be pretty hard in most cases to find out which "people" were there first.

Would you tell someone from the Ivory Coast that they must accept millions of whites, and in 50 years will soon become a minority, for no reason other than they should.

Would you walk into an Indian Reservation in the states and lambast their lack of diversity.

A lot of misguided nonsense.

Current stats show the level of the immigrant population in the UK is 4.8%
Current asylum seeking is running at approx 700 (this includes family members) per month, hardly excessive.
The UK 'takes' approx 2% of the world's refugees.
Until fairly recently the UK had a net out-flow rather than inflow of people.

.....and anyone who imagines the UK is 'full' should take a look beyond London and the SE of England, there's no problem with room.

Naturally what the fascist element try to play on is 1) an ignorance of the actual facts on this matter 2) a deliberate confusion of immigration and asylum seeking when they are two very distinct things and 3) that people will automatically assume that 'brown Britons' are immigrants which is just plain wrong as well as stupid.

...oh, and just for the record -

there is no such thing as a town in Britain with an immigrant population outnumbering the indiginous population.
What is being referred to here are 'brown Britons' outnumbering 'white Britons' - so what is this hmm?
A laughable ressurection of the sad tired little nazi idea of 'sending them back', even the ones born here, hmmm?

Pathetic.
No wonder they - racist and fascist Britons - remain a shunned powerless minority even amongst what they imagine are 'their own'!
There's who most of us don't want to mix with

Originally posted by blueorder
Enoch Powell wasnt that extreme ffs- his rivers of blood speech could have been scripted for what happened in Bradford, Oldham etc

- What you mean small gangs of white thugs finding out that the 'pakis' don't always run away now....

....and that the racial tensions the numerous white attacks on asians have led to a handful of innocent white kids suffering unprovoked attacks?

But "rivers of blood"?!

Don't make me laugh. It is as pathetic an idea and as detached from reality now as it was when that nutter Powell first made those remarks nearly 40yrs ago.

(and yes, I meant nutter. As a (supposedly) highly educated and deeply intellectual man he must have know the deep trouble he created across the UK with those comments as evey racist across the country used them - as they still do - to justify their ignorant petty small minded hatred.)

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Current stats show the level of the immigrant population in the UK is 4.8%
Current asylum seeking is running at approx 700 (this includes family members) per month, hardly excessive.
The UK 'takes' approx 2% of the world's refugees.
Until fairly recently the UK had a net out-flow rather than inflow of people.

.....and anyone who imagines the UK is 'full' should take a look beyond London and the SE of England, there's no problem with room.

Naturally what the fascist element try to play on is 1) an ignorance of the actual facts on this matter 2) a deliberate confusion of immigration and asylum seeking when they are two very distinct things and 3) that people will automatically assume that 'brown Britons' are immigrants which is just plain wrong as well as stupid.

...oh, and just for the record -

there is no such thing as a town in Britain with an immigrant population outnumbering the indiginous population.
What is being referred to here are 'brown Britons' outnumbering 'white Britons' - so what is this hmm?
A laughable ressurection of the sad tired little nazi idea of 'sending them back', even the ones born here, hmmm?

Pathetic.
No wonder they - racist and fascist Britons - remain a shunned powerless minority even amongst what they imagine are 'their own'!
There's who most of us don't want to mix with

You are just being idiotic- obviously the race and culture issue is part of the debate, it is inherently part of the debate because different races / cultures really only entered UK in modern history post war- so to answer you, Leicester has seen indigenous English people outpopulated by recent immigrants and their descendents- soon to follow are Birmingham, London, Luton, Bradford, Oldham to name but a few.

What do you think the reaction would be in Pakistan, if they were told that, due to increasing white immigration, whites would outnumbers the local host community within 50 years- repeat this scenario for anywhere in Asia, the mid east and Africa.

Your asylum figures are as ridiculous as your pie in the sky arguments- back to planet reality here (your attempts at equating quite valid concerns and opposition to the Nazis is despicable, but hardly surprising given the fact that some people, including yourself, seem incapable of allowing mature debate on the subject)

* over 85% of asylum seekers remain in the UK whether or not they are granted asylum.
* there is no check on the arrival or departure of visitors or students.
* here has been a huge increase in work permits from 40,000 to 175,000 a year but, again, there is no check on departures.
* net foreign migration in 2003 was 236,000

* For the first time in our history, we face massive immigration. Inward migration is adding 414 a day to our population - that is equivalent to the population of Birmingham every five or six years . Illegal immigrants are additional to this and are likely to bring the total addition to our population through migration to at least 2 million every 10 years.

*All major economic studies have shown that the effect of immigration on GDP per head is broadly neutral. Such impact as there may be depends heavily on the quality of the immigrants.


*In 2003 the cost of the legal processes, housing and support of asylum seekers was £2 billion or £100 for every household – enough to build eight new hospitals. This does not include the cost of their healthcare, education etc. In the same year our bilateral overseas development aid was £1.8 billion. Of this, less than £25 million went to the UN High Commission for Refugees.


Immigration that is moderate and controlled can be of benefit to the nation, refer the acceptance of Asian refugees expelled by the black ruler, Idi Amin, for being Asian- these (mainly Indian) refugees revitalised many ailing traditional industries in the north.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by blueorder
Enoch Powell wasnt that extreme ffs- his rivers of blood speech could have been scripted for what happened in Bradford, Oldham etc

- What you mean small gangs of white thugs finding out that the 'pakis' don't always run away now....

....and that the racial tensions the numerous white attacks on asians have led to a handful of innocent white kids suffering unprovoked attacks?

But "rivers of blood"?!

You are just being an idiot.

Do you know that the majority of racially orientated disturbances on the streets of the UK does not involve whites- oh no, it involves inter ethnic groups- Kurds & Pakistanis, Bengalis and Turks, Albanians and Blacks etc etc.

Your dismissal of the Bradford and Oldham cases as just asians "defending" themselves is actually racist, guilt ridden hogwash- numerous asians were convicted for unprovoked attacks, and if you want I ll send you a link to the case in Glasgow recently, where several Asians were tried and convicted of the unprovoked abduction, murder and torture of a white youth- confirmed as racist in its origin. He was beaten, stabbed and set on fire- you try telling his family that he provoked them, you ignorant cretin.

Originally posted by blueorder
obviously the race and culture issue is part of the debate

- So you are talking about people born in the UK but of an ethnic background?

Just so as we all know.

it is inherently part of the debate because different races / cultures really only entered UK in modern history post war

- Rubbish.

Large numbers entered Briton post war but there have always been significant numbers of brown Britons, particularly around the major ports of the UK.

Leicester has seen indigenous English people outpopulated by recent immigrants and their descendents- soon to follow are Birmingham, London, Luton, Bradford, Oldham to name but a few.

- Yeah yeah yeah.
And. So. What?

Just like parts of London were once inhabited by the eastern European Jewish people who fled their original homes and 'took over' large parts of the east end.
Big deal. Things change and this is simply another one of those changes.

Nothing scary in it at all...except for the fascist's trouble-making reaction.

What do you think the reaction would be in Pakistan, if they were told that, due to increasing white immigration, whites would outnumbers the local host community within 50 years- repeat this scenario for anywhere in Asia, the mid east and Africa.

- Look if you want to talk about what 'they' would do if the situation wer reversed I'd suggest a little thought first.
If ever there was a people that went tramping the entire world, taking over and going where we pleased I'd say it was the British, wouldn't you?

Your asylum figures are as ridiculous

- They're Home Office figures, same as any reputable people use. You just don't like them cos they expose the ridiculous hysteria you seem intent on promoting.

(your attempts at equating quite valid concerns and opposition to the Nazis is despicable

- What do you call it when people deliberately ignore the official stats and deliberately blur what it is they are talking about in this field, hmmm?

You kept talking immigrant yet your claims about Leicester or those few towns in the north of England are all really about British people born in Briton....who happen to be a different colour.

but hardly surprising given the fact that some people, including yourself, seem incapable of allowing mature debate on the subject

- Naaa, it's just when you do what you did it's going to be a regular thing that people see racism and fascism.

....and I wouldn't trust 'Immigation Watch' (or whichever supposedly 'independant' unbiased organisation you got them from...the tory party! ) figures if I were you either.

We're going to have independantly verifiable publicly accountable figures on this soon, til thenm the Home Office figures are the best we have (they're the same figures as all parties used in their time in gov so at the every least they indicate genuine trend even if they aren't accurate to the nth degree).

So, be honest, all this concern over Leicester, Bradford etc etc what are you really saying, hmmm?
It's still 'if they're black send em back', huh?
Cos the number of immigrants compared to 'brown British' is negligible.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by blueorder
obviously the race and culture issue is part of the debate

- So you are talking about people born in the UK but of an ethnic background?

Just so as we all know.
/quote]

Absoloutely, yes.

It is obviously part of the debate on immigration given the recent nature of those arrivals

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

- Rubbish.

Large numbers entered Briton post war but there have always been significant numbers of brown Britons, particularly around the major ports of the UK.

Utter rubbish, there has never been significant numbers of brown Britons in Britain prior to the second world war, even at the major ports- just typing it does not make it fact.

Mind you it depends on your definition of the term "significant", and seeing as you indulged in accusations of "nazis" at anyone questioning uncontrolled immigration, I suspect your definition would be a tad askew

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Leicester has seen indigenous English people outpopulated by recent immigrants and their descendents- soon to follow are Birmingham, London, Luton, Bradford, Oldham to name but a few.

- Yeah yeah yeah.
And. So. What?

Just like parts of London were once inhabited by the eastern European Jewish people who fled their original homes and 'took over' large parts of the east end.
Big deal. Things change and this is simply another one of those changes.

Nothing scary in it at all...except for the fascist's trouble-making reaction.

You asked for examples, I gave them to you, nazi straw clutcher.

The Jews never "took" over the East End to any great degree and that is about the only relatively major influx of peoples who differ greatly from the host inhabitants, that happened for some considerable time (prior to the current onslaught)- in any event, that movement pales into insgnificance compared to the situation today.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Look if you want to talk about what 'they' would do if the situation wer reversed I'd suggest a little thought first.
If ever there was a people that went tramping the entire world, taking over and going where we pleased I'd say it was the British, wouldn't you?

ridiculous and futile argument to bring in the Empire- does that mean you believe the newest arrivals should leave the UK after about 100 years as well then- back to the playground with you child.

Originally posted by blueorder
Absoloutely, yes.

It is obviously part of the debate on immigration given the recent nature of those arrivals

- Ok so where are you intent on sending these brown Britons?

Camps maybe?

Absurd.

Do you know that the majority of racially orientated disturbances on the streets of the UK does not involve whites- oh no, it involves inter ethnic groups- Kurds & Pakistanis, Bengalis and Turks, Albanians and Blacks etc etc.

- ...and is but a handful cos those who suffer the day in day out abuse and attacks from the 'host community' rarely report them.

Your dismissal of the Bradford and Oldham cases as just asians "defending" themselves is actually racist, guilt ridden hogwash-

- Call it what you like but I know those areas and it is not as you described. Asians in particular have suffered decades of abuse up there, a reaction was bound to happen sometime. The good thing is it has been fairly muted considering.

numerous asians were convicted for unprovoked attacks

- Go on then post a police or Home Office link for just how "numerous" these attacks are supposed to have been. Let's see it.

and if you want I ll send you a link to the case in Glasgow recently, where several Asians were tried and convicted of the unprovoked abduction, murder and torture of a white youth- confirmed as racist in its origin.

- Did anyone say the asian community was comprised of saints? Mind you just one case, eh? Hardly your rivers of blood garbage.

He was beaten, stabbed and set on fire- you try telling his family that he provoked them, you ignorant cretin.

- Well if you want to resort to base abuse I'd say this, I did not actually say he would have provoked anyone (part of my comment about this was about retaliation on innocent and unconnected whites if you actually looked).

Utter rubbish, there has never been significant numbers of brown Britons in Britain prior to the second world war, even at the major ports- just typing it does not make it fact.

- You'll find references (if you had the slightest idea of what you are talking about) in English literature of black people in Britain in Elizabeth the 1st's day, actually.

you indulged in accusations of "nazis" at anyone questioning uncontrolled immigration

- No; hang on. That's a lie.
You aren't whining about "uncontrolled immigration", you are crying about brown British people.

The Jews never "took" over the East End to any great degree and that is about the only relatively major influx of peoples who differ greatly from the host inhabitants, that happened for some considerable time (prior to the current onslaught)- in any event, that movement pales into insgnificance compared to the situation today.

- There was a major movement of Jewish east Europeans to the east end actually.
They did practically take it over.

Of course the numbers are different, there are a lot more people in the world and Britain for a start.

ridiculous and futile argument to bring in the Empire

- You were the one who brought in the 'how would they like it' arguement. I'd say it was very pertinent and relevant to actually look at what did happen not that long ago.

.....it is afterall how come the UK has a community from almost every part of the world somewhere within it's borders.

does that mean you believe the newest arrivals should leave the UK after about 100 years as well then

- For some it might well do. Just as many Kosovan refugees have now gone home because the war that they fled there is over.

back to the playground with you child

- I think you'll find that it's you that could not conduct a reasonable discussion without resorting to infantile abuse and who is clutching the simplistic childish attitudes.

So come on then brains, let's see this fleshed out a little.

What are you going to do with these supposed hoards of brown British people then, hmm?

I live in the North of England (in fact Bradford) and I 100% AGREE with the original poster.

I live in the North of England (in fact Bradford) and I 100% AGREE with the original poster.

I live in the North of England (in fact Bradford) and I 100% AGREE with the original poster.

Sminkeypinkey, are you a "brown Briton", do you live in these trouble spots?

If anything, it is the host community being abused and terrorized by these so-called British "brown people" or whatever you want to call them. Whether you like to admit it or not, these people cause the majority of problems associated with these the places they live - drug dealing, assualts, rape, etc. When you've lived in one of the trouble spots for so long, you get to see the real picture. More and more people are now starting to speak up, which is good, but many are still terrorized to say anything and get named racist or facist.

[edit on 11/2/05 by NoobCommando]