Trump signs order to eliminate ACA insurance rules, undermine marketplaces

a reply to: Krazysh0t

But states don't have to follow the law, remember?

Skimpier health coverage - wow, what an improvement.

a reply to: avgguy


nope, you'll still be paying Maserati prices for kia quality..

don't worry, the wealthy will pay more cuz they can afford it - they're the ones who'll be driving the Maserati's.

The Republican effort to repeal healthcare for something that covers less and really f*ck over the people in need... So inspiring... Not at all evil or retarded.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Existing insurance workers can get 1st priority for jobs in the new system. I know I'm over simplifying. This is just something that has always made me scratch my head.

As a clairvoyant and an immortal, I know when bad things are about to happen and I know I won't get hurt! So less coverage is just right for me! Thanks, Trump!

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: jimmyx

Or you could have to choose between a Kia and a Hyundai but pay a Maserati payment like Obamacare

considering all we've heard from the right, you would think EVERYONE was paying for a Maserati.....actually, I knew from day one that the ACA wouldn't survive, too many people making huge profits off of American healthcare companies

So if you're 'healthy' you can pay less for an insurance policy that will cover you for absolutely nothing if you get sick, because by getting sick you've invalidated your 'healthy' policy?

So the sick will wind up having to pay a lot more? While the healthy who are dumb enough to take out a junk policy that won't cover them for anything will get ripped off by the insurance companies?

Great solution!

a reply to: jimmyx

Well when you let them write the legislation what do you think will happen? Obama and friends painted a dog turd and sold it as a tootsie roll.

The only move is Universal Healthcare. Single Payer. Republicans are sh*tting the bed by not pursuing it. It's a huge win waiting to be written down in the history books -- Republicans have the ball-- but they choose to sh*t the bed and suck off Insurance Companies. As usual, they're leaving those great historical opportunities for liberals to achieve.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
Skimpier health coverage - wow, what an improvement.

hey, this is America, the only thing that matters is how much money you make. these stupid, lazy, poor people just need to leave and go find another country....aaaahhhh....the warm rush of a right-winger came over me

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Universal healthcare will never work in this country. Too many leaches not enough hosts.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: peter_kandra

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You do know that the rate of change of rising insurance prices was much higher pre-ACA right?

Maybe in fantasy land, but not in the reality I see when I pay my premiums each month.

Fantasy land? Lol. People have actually looked at the numbers then and now and compared them.

I was paying maybe $450 a month pre-ACA for a decent family plan...going up maybe 6 or 7% a year. There were numerous providers servicing my state, so I always also had the option of price shopping. The first year of ACA, my premiums shot up 68%. They're now over $1,100 a month and that's with one kid out of the house and off the plan. Plus my deductibles and co-insurance are so high that nothing is covered except routine visits.

Your personal anecdote isn't the nation's anecdote. That's why you don't use anecdotes to prove a point. You rely on statistical data for that.

I'm relying upon MY data and numbers. My bills and choice of what I need or can afford are my concern, not the nations, and vice-versa.

You said you're in IT, so I'm assuming you make above 4x the FPL and not eligible for a subsidy. How much are your premiums a month, or are you lucky enough to work for a company that pays for your benefits?

I don't, so it's out of my pocket and since it's my hard earned money, you're damn right that all I care about is my personal anecdote.

Just listened to the actual signing of this order. I think this is a wonderful start! Kudos to Rand Paul and President Trump for making this happen! Small businesses once again can join associations across state lines to offer their employees a fair priced policy. Knowing many small business owners, and having heard their frustrations, I will say this is a win/win!

Edit add: i don't understand why so many cannot see that this is going to force health care insurance to take the route that auto insurance did! Having less restrictions about crossing state lines, means more choices. Your health insurance company will have to fight to keep their costs fair and you a happy consumer, if not, their business will go under...not you!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Adding those plans might also help the many, many people who live in areas that will no longer be served by the marketplace too and who no longer have any recourse to an actual Obamacare plan whether or not they could afford it to begin with.

But I didn't see anyone on either side of the aisle rushing to help them.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Well if you read the article, it goes into it, but I know you won't so I'll resummarize here. The problem is that adding plans that aren't ACA compliant will send healthy people to them because they are cheaper. This causes a death spiral in the ACA plans as only sick people are left in that pool. So prices increase drastically. Then, ultimately, we are in the same situation we were in from 2000 - 2009. With health insurance prices rising exponentially from year to year and covering less and less health issues.

Yet my family's health coverage during that span was quite affordable, skyrocketing in price only after the ACA kicked in, and it covered a hell of a lot more than it presently does. Imagine, a system where healthy people aren't financially penalized for their healthy choices and lifestyles!

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: jimmyx

Well when you let them write the legislation what do you think will happen? Obama and friends painted a dog turd and sold it as a tootsie roll.

geez.....you have no idea what Obama had to go through just to get the ACA on the books...you must think all democrats in congress in 2009 and 2010 were a bunch of Bernie Saunders clones.......

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You do know that the rate of change of rising insurance prices was much higher pre-ACA right?

BULLSNIP. Post ACA the deductibles took off like a wild goose in winter alongside premiums that were rising at equally soaring rates.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Well if you read the article, it goes into it, but I know you won't so I'll resummarize here. The problem is that adding plans that aren't ACA compliant will send healthy people to them because they are cheaper. This causes a death spiral in the ACA plans as only sick people are left in that pool. So prices increase drastically. Then, ultimately, we are in the same situation we were in from 2000 - 2009. With health insurance prices rising exponentially from year to year and covering less and less health issues.

Yet my family's health coverage during that span was quite affordable, skyrocketing in price only after the ACA kicked in, and it covered a hell of a lot more than it presently does. Imagine, a system where healthy people aren't financially penalized for their healthy choices and lifestyles!

right, because as we all know.....diseases, accidents, birth defects, and old age, don't happen to people that make healthy choices and live healthy lifestyles....

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Extorted charity is kind of like compulsory patriotism.

Is it? Americans didn't use to view it that way a century ago.

These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people.
 —Abraham Lincoln, from his first speech as an Illinois state legislator, 1837

Everyone now is more or less a Socialist. 
—Charles Dana, managing editor of the New York Tribune, and Lincoln’s assistant secretary of war, 1848

source

Ill need to read those quotes in context. What I do know: what we call a "socialist" today is nothing like what we called it then, with political movements tending to be responsive to the environment they move in. Nonetheless, you referenced "founders" earlier. Lincoln was almost 100 years after that.

Well here's the thing. I agree that the ACA shouldn't be the solution. I would rather have universal health care myself. The ACA is the conservative compromise to what I wanted. However, it IS better than the system we had before. I'd rather have it than nothing.

Why? Who is it helping? From a percentage of Americans...who is it helping?

If you believe it is better, Ill need that quantified. Because I disagree. To me its more costly and less accessible than it was before. Exponentially so. And when I look around at who is benefitting, the only people I can tell benefit for sure are insurance companies and their executives.

The government's role is to improve and protect the lives of its citizens while being limited by the Constitution.

The preamble states that their role is: form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.

You can argue that providing healthcare is promoting the general welfare. SCOTUS would state that the preamble to the constitution does not grant power. You can also find in the taxation and spending clause. But SCOTUS there states that it has nothing to do with legislative authority, but rather taxation authority.

While on this topic...do you know what "Enumerated Powers" means? Its means that the government only has the powers enumerated in the constitution. The idea being that the constitution stated what was the Federal Governments responsibility, what role the states had....and everything else was for the people.

And I cannot find providing healthcare and charity within the enumerated powers of Uncle Sam. At best, their role here would be in regulating the insurance commerce. But with that said...i don't have issue with national healthcare. I just want to see them prove the concept by executing the VA health system appropriately.

I did no so such thing. I am merely saying that helping others is the right thing to do. Paying taxes is also mandatory and outlined in the Constitution as something the government is allowed to collect. You can look at it like robbery, but that is silly. Every government in all of history has taxed its citizens. Social programs are proven to improve the overall welfare of the citizenry. We got to be number 1 in the world by being helpful, not being hording our gains. I really have trouble understanding conservatives' aversion to Social programs.

Im hardly conservative in the way you are lumping me into. Im more of an anarchist, or libertarian, at heart.

Helping others IS the right thing to do. But extortion is wrong. So...how does forcing someone to help others via taxes come out as "the right thing to do"? Why does government get to decide? Why do people who know nothing about me get to vote cash out of my pocket? This goes so far beyond taxing, as ACA isn't a tax. Its a penalty. So how is penalizing me for not making a purchase, or forcing me to pay inflated rates for that purchase, being converted into "helping people"?

How are you "helping others" when its taken at threat of force from you? Is that what morality really looks like?