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Do away with domestic violence laws:

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posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 12:23 AM
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Don't let the title deceive you - I am not for spousal abuse or girlfriend abuse or the abusing of anyone, for that matter. My feelings are that the gov does a poor job in dealing with DV and assault, for that matter. Nothing can take away the memory of being physically abused. The best one can hope for is if an abuser is jailed, but this rarely changes them and thus gives no one satisfaction. An eye for an eye and a much more aggressive stance is really needed. If someone beats their spouse, a community watch group should respond with a good arse beating, in like. How better to put fear into abusers than for them to know that the spouse can go and call the neighborhood posse' to quell all intentions of getting the snuff kicked out of you.

In my town, Dayton, OH, two lawyers are currently fighting a DV case where they cite Ohio laws saying that DV does not apply to unwed couples, based on the newly created constitutional amendment formed out of the gay marriage rulings. By this definition of law, Ohio does not give legitimacy to unwed couples, therefore nullifying the DV law between unwed couples. Assault charges are still a legal option, but this is making a precedence as the new definition has raised arguments in a dozen other Cleveland area cases.

We do not need laws for arse kickings. If someone is abused, it should be a sole responsibility of the community and family/friends to respond with a like beating to the abuser. The government should sanction this as a legitimate form of retaliation, when called for. If a spouse beats his mate, then the watchgroup should step in and provide instant punishment. The courts and police should only be there to investigate and rule on the limits of what the people can do.

It is time to bring a limited lynch mob back.




posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 12:40 AM
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Great idea, untill you consider that a woman could conceivibly tell this "group" that her husband beat her when he actually didnt. Maybe she was mad at him and wanted revenge? Thats where its good to have the cops step in and INVESTIGATE. The last thing we need is people walking be able to legally kicks someones ass, based on hearsay.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
Great idea, untill you consider that a woman could conceivibly tell this "group" that her husband beat her when he actually didnt. Maybe she was mad at him and wanted revenge? Thats where its good to have the cops step in and INVESTIGATE. The last thing we need is people walking be able to legally kicks someones ass, based on hearsay.


True. That is why I think we still could have the police and courts involved in a limited basis, only to arrest and judge those who abuse the right. I think that if someone is committing a crime, the accused should not be able to take their greivances into a court, like if they got whipped in the process. The court could just look at it as just rewards for committing domestic violence if a neighborhood group retaliates. Now if someone conspired to use this as a revenge tactic, then the court could then arrest those in the "group" when there is no evidence that abuse occurred. I think a woman with physical evidence such as bruises, cuts, trauma would be enough evidence that she was being beaten. If it is just hearsay, then people ought to excercise some form of personal restraint and assist the abused by checking on them for example.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by ben91069]



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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Coming from a home that was extremely violent, and one where the police were ineffective for the most part, I still disagree with your little lynch mob idea.

Not only is it ineffective unless you take the persons life, it is ineffective because who is to say neighbors, friends, family would believe the victim even after seeing physical evidence?

My father beat my mother nearly to death more than once, neighbors heard it, family knew about it, and they did nothing. When the police FINALLY removed him from the home (They’d been to our home over 20 times in one year before, and we were told it was domestic dispute, work it out) and started proceedings that were instrumental in finally getting rid of him from our lives, members of my mothers family and nearly all of our neighbors (who were witness) refused to accept the fact that yeah, my dad was an abusive alcoholic and my mother was a victim.

I can’t make you understand where I’m coming from, and I most certainly will not give you any long drawn out stories, making this shorter and less descriptive than it is, but your communal ass kicking idea? Wouldn’t make me feel better. I highly doubt it would heal my mother’s scars, and knowing the sort of person my father is? He probably would have come back for revenge and finally finished the job.

While I do agree that the laws and the seriousness to which people take domestic violence cases need to be overhauled, I think your idea is unreasonable, mostly because of the indifference of good people rendering it ineffectual... not to mention the fact that most people who abuse their partners aren't completely there mentally to begin with.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 08:00 PM
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Well, speaking as one that was held hostage and told my kids would be killed, then me, then himself...hell no....I don't agree at all...the police saved my life, fixed his butt good! Even let me know when he would be released and ordered to leave the state! There needs to be record of families with domestic violence, authorities need to be involved!



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV
Well, speaking as one that was held hostage and told my kids would be killed, then me, then himself...hell no....I don't agree at all...the police saved my life, fixed his butt good! Even let me know when he would be released and ordered to leave the state! There needs to be record of families with domestic violence, authorities need to be involved!


Exactly. Mob Violence doesn't solve anything, aside from letting people be violent for reasons that haven't directly impacted their lives... which is sick.

The cops could have prevented a lot of violence in my case, but I don't believe a few bad cops means that one should completely give up on the justice system. It may be flawed in some aspects, but at least it is present.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by DamnableSara]



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 11:53 PM
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Back when we were Hillbillies, just a tiny town with a few dozen families totaling a few hundred to a thousand or so people in the area, back before we were civilized and taught manners and how to be socially acceptable things like that were just not allowed.

If you beat your wife her brothers or uncles would show you its not nice to hit a woman.

If you stole someones stuff in our tiny community someone would find out and you got your ass kicked, usually by your embarressed family and the property was returned.

Child molesters were not permited to live among us, they would leave one way or the other.

People made their own booze and grew their own smoke and nobody gave a crap what you did in your privite life and on your own property.

The poor were helped as needed without having to beg and the lazy were ran out of town.

A man that would not work to support his family got a bundle of sticks on his porch one morning, that was his only warning.

Think God we cured of our backwards redneck ways and taught how to do things the right way



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Think God we cured of our backwards redneck ways and taught how to do things the right way


Yes, 'coz I totolay believe that none of that happened then either throughout history ever as bad as it does now.

/sarcasm

Sorries.

Domestic Violence I think is a larger scale problem like racism in that it's been around forever, but it won't go away over night. I just don't think those things would work now-a-days... as IF the system works 100% of the time now though. It does make me happy and help reinstate my faith that humanity = good hearing from LadyV though, that authorities could actually help. Most often its the case where things get overlooked, and then it's too late.

Violence for violence? Solves nothing... Peace as an absolut? Unrealistic. Double edged sword mah friends, unavoidable. Where then do we turn when neither of these beliefs are ideal? Mediation? Sometimes; but even that system isn't perfect.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by DamnableSara
[ I just don't think those things would work now-a-days... as IF the system works 100% of the time now though.


I dont think they would in a larger group. But a small community is different. You cant hide your black eye for instance.

Or like stealing

If you stole some ones TV what are you going to do with it? Everyone knows it was stole and if you put it in your living room someone will notice it and the victim would find out.

But you are right it wouldnt work in a city of 6-7 million people



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk

I dont think they would in a larger group. But a small community is different. You cant hide your black eye for instance.


In my opinion though, people who hurt other people that severely, are only going to get angrier if they suffer consequences. This most often seems to mean acting out... no matter what society says.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 01:16 AM
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this is kind of a pointless thread...Anyone with 1/2 a brain (amuk) knows that vigilantism is wrong and illegal....



NOTE----> Just messin with ya, Amuk....you got at least 75% firing there...lol



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
this is kind of a pointless thread...Anyone with 1/2 a brain (amuk) knows that vigilantism is wrong and illegal....



NOTE----> Just messin with ya, Amuk....you got at least 75% firing there...lol


Of course it is illegal. That is the point; to suggest limited vigilantism (legalize it) Vigilantism is just as effective in snuffing out unwanted behavior, if not more swift. The law and courts draw things out for years. Anyone hard headed will never truly learn, but at least they will be instantly quelled, knowing that if they cross the line, they will pay a price immediately - not a few years down the road when the courts slowly take action.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by DamnableSara

Originally posted by Amuk

I dont think they would in a larger group. But a small community is different. You cant hide your black eye for instance.


In my opinion though, people who hurt other people that severely, are only going to get angrier if they suffer consequences. This most often seems to mean acting out... no matter what society says.


This is most likely the case, but no one cares if they are angry. All that matters is if they have the fear that if they do something they will suffer immediate consequences. If they learn from it, more power to them, but I know of very few people who take adverse circumstances and hard learning and reflect on themselves to change. At least they would know that they would become an example and it would most likely not be fun.

I understand where everyone is coming from, citing examples of personal experiences and such. This idea is not new and has been done before (think of the old west). It doesn't solve the problem and I know that. I think it would simply be more effective if instead of everyones hands being tied in the matter, that it would be legal for people who cared enough for those abused to take action, without fear of also being arrested. Of course it relies on responsible people who truly care about one another so I guess it is a bit idealistic



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
this is kind of a pointless thread...Anyone with 1/2 a brain (amuk) knows that vigilantism is wrong and illegal....


Its Illegal, not necessarily wrong, the two aren't always the same. Legal or otherwise beat one of my daughters and see what happens, if they dont kick your ass, you will have a very pissed off biker and sons to deal with.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by ben91069
Anyone hard headed will never truly learn, but at least they will be instantly quelled, knowing that if they cross the line, they will pay a price immediately - not a few years down the road when the courts slowly take action.


Unless of course they already HAVE nothing to lose. What makes you think just because you beat somebodies arse they'll care enough not to do anything again? A lot of abusive people I know would only have two things on their mind, Anger and Revenge. Now who do you suppose they'd take that out on?

Oh, no, not the easiest person to get to or the former spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend they've been beating for years. Of course not. Somebody like that isn't gonna care if they get their ass kicked again in my opinion, hate breeds hate.


This is most likely the case, but no one cares if they are angry. All that matters is if they have the fear that if they do something they will suffer immediate consequences. If they learn from it, more power to them, but I know of very few people who take adverse circumstances and hard learning and reflect on themselves to change. At least they would know that they would become an example and it would most likely not be fun.


Who said beating the crap out of smebody was being done because it was fun in the first place? While I'm guilty of the same thing here, you can't think on one extreme, which in my experience is the least likely to occur.

What an excellent world it would be, if people learned from beatings and experience immediately like that.

Either way, system needs an overhaul. There we agree, at least.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 03:52 AM
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Its Illegal, not necessarily wrong, the two aren't always the same. Legal or otherwise beat one of my daughters and see what happens, if they dont kick your , you will have a very pissed off biker and sons to deal with.



Ya, thats about the only time, I'd agree. Or if your right there, and he hauls off and slaps her or something. But the whole mob mentality is unhealthy. I grew up in the sticks as well. Didnt see the cops much. We handled things on our own as well. Just, in this day and age, its better to let cops handle that #. At least in the begining. Then, when beating insues, they will know he had it coming. Cops aint to sympathetic to spousal abusers.

But let me pose a question. What if it was a 275 pound woman, beating regulary on her 150 pound husband. Would anyone kick her a--? Is turn about fair play ? Makes ya wonder



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