It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Rapture of the Church

page: 1
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:38 PM
link   
I am reading the book series Left Behind and I was thinking about the Rapture and stuff,but does the Bible actually mention that Christ will take up all of his followers before the Tribulation happens? Or is it even mentioned at all because I heard that the idea of the rapture wasn't actually in the bible. I was hoping that someone could clear up a few things on the subject. Thanks.


Thoughts on Rumors-




posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:48 PM
link   
Here's an interesting article Icarus Rising just posted today in the politcal forum. It's about the environment, but it also about the Rapture and touches on the Left Behind series as well as the popularity and origins of Rapture lore (in brief).


That's right -- the rapture index. Google it and you will find that the best-selling books in America today are the 12 volumes of the "Left Behind" series written by the Christian fundamentalist and religious-right warrior Timothy LaHaye. These true believers subscribe to a fantastical theology concocted in the 19th century by a couple of immigrant preachers who took disparate passages from the Bible and wove them into a narrative that has captivated the imagination of millions of Americans.

Its outline is rather simple, if bizarre (the British writer George Monbiot recently did a brilliant dissection of it and I am indebted to him for adding to my own understanding): Once Israel has occupied the rest of its "biblical lands," legions of the antichrist will attack it, triggering a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon.


It should at least give you ideas to google.


PS - I read the first 3 or 4 books of the series myself. Then I got the hell out of that money cult.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:58 PM
link   
Oh ok, I myself started reading them at the begining of the week and I am already on book 5 lol. I suppose I read fast tonite I will most likely finish that book. I dunno I really like the books for some reason, pretty good story and all. For some reason I can't use your link, the site is complaining about something that I have to sign up for.
Could you please post the relevant parts.


Thoughts on Rumors-



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 06:42 AM
link   
Matthew 13:47 (Jesus says) "Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. When it was full, the fisherman pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Hm...I wonder if the bad fish have 'Darwin' written in the middle of them


Anyway, this says to me we're all going to be in this in the end. It validates a series of dreams I'd had (and I'm sure for other Christians) who had to bear witness as well as gives hope to those who would've otherwise be 'left behind'. I cannot say though, I thought I read somewhere where there would be some kind of vanishing. Anyone well versed know what I'm referring to? I'll need to do more research to find out. It's God's call so we'll see what happens ultimately. In any case, any one of us could meet our own end tomorrow.

The Final, there are a lot of Christian fictional pieces that have a basis of Biblical truths. I think what's most important of these is the message.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 11:51 AM
link   
on the rapture

1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


The Left Behind books , the rapture, and the tribulation are explained at length at this site


TribulationForces

The main focus appears to be the stuff in the Left Behind books



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 12:07 PM
link   
One of the most confusing things about Revelation, is the fact that it often jumps around in the sequence of events... However, as many times as I've read it, to me, it seems that the "Rapture" described doesn't happen until after the last trumpet...meaning these folks still have to witness the wrath's effects on others.

The other tidbit, is that according to the good book, only 144000 are to be so saved, and these are all virgin men, descended from the 12 tribes of Israel...so a selective bunch at best it seems...



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 12:13 PM
link   
There is not one reference in the bible regarding the rapture. I love it how christians can't even accept what there own bible tells them, so they tell everyone else that it actually says what they want to hear.

It is your interpretation and opinion that lead you to believe in the false idea of the rapture... The literal bible doesn't mention or describe it.

(Waits patiently for all of the bible quotes pulled out of context via copy paste methods from christian websites)

You know, pat robertson told everyone on live television that God personally told him when the rapture and tribulation would occur. It is now 21 years later, and in that span Pat Robertson has also told us via live television that God personally told him that he was to usher in the second coming of Jesus via live televison. Immediately following this,k he asked for money to buy the equipment. That diamond mind he had going was some equipment don't you think???

"Pat is not a evagelist, he is a business man".....Pat Robertsons Wife.

I get such a kick out of christians. Why don't you all go over to that cool place Jim Baker had set up...wait...they convicted him of fraud...and it closed....my bad.....

P.S. I bring up this lying jerks name because he was one of the first people to mainstream the idea of the rapture.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 12:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok
One of the most confusing things about Revelation, is the fact that it often jumps around in the sequence of events... However, as many times as I've read it, to me, it seems that the "Rapture" described doesn't happen until after the last trumpet...meaning these folks still have to witness the wrath's effects on others.

The other tidbit, is that according to the good book, only 144000 are to be so saved, and these are all virgin men, descended from the 12 tribes of Israel...so a selective bunch at best it seems...


Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
Rev 7:5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
Rev 7:6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
Rev 7:7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
Rev 7:8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.
Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
Rev 7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
Rev 7:11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12 saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen."
Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?"
Rev 7:14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


I also thought that it was only 144,000. Its easy to overlook.
I had also thought that the 144,000 was the amount of jews. That is also incorrect.
144,000

[edit on 13-2-2005 by jake1997]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 12:28 PM
link   

There is not one reference in the bible regarding the rapture. I love it how christians can't even accept what there own bible tells them, so they tell everyone else that it actually says what they want to hear.

It is your interpretation and opinion that lead you to believe in the false idea of the rapture... The literal bible doesn't mention or describe it.

(Waits patiently for all of the bible quotes pulled out of context via copy paste methods from christian websites)


True, the book never uses the word "rapture", but the event of Jesus taking the 144000 to Heaven with him, is there, in Revelation. Not a Christian myself, but (pardon the pun) devil's advocate here...


Revelation 14
The Lamb and the 144,000
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.



Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 12:54 PM
link   
Hummm.................only virgin mens so that right there will tell you how bias the bible, girls have not change.

Revelations was not part of the original texts it was added after the church debated about it.

Better to keep the people afraid of hell than free I wonder if they knew how the population of the world was to grow through the centuries.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:02 PM
link   
I wrote this several months back. The rapture is Biblical and there are other places talking about it but here is what I wrote several months ago.


posted on 27-7-2004 at 06:38 PM
Pre-trib rapture verses

Someone said that it doesn't matter if the rapture is pre-trib or post-trib. I wholeheartedly disagree. It's pre-trib and you want to escape the tribulation period(it will be the worst time the human race has ever known, worse than what Hitler did and worse the the catastrophe of Noah's flood.) It is going to be hard to be a christian during the tribulation period, it will mean death for some. Plus a strong delusion is going to be sent during the tribulation period. The Bible tells us a "lie" will be told and many will believe this lie.

Someone also said that christians lower themselves to talk to the unsaved to get points to get into heaven. A real christian knows that he is only going to heaven because of what Christ has done for us. You can't do anything to get into heaven aside from faith in Christ. We serve God and as part of our service christians will be rewarded in heaven. The rewards we will receive are for growing in our faith and letting go our our will and listening for the voice of God to direct us. They rewards are for accepting the responsibilities of being a christian and following through on those responsibilities.

Now for the rapture verses:

1. I believe being taken to heaven before the tribulation is one of those rewards. I believe that this is the crown of righteousness that is talked about in 2 Timothy 4:8.

2. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 talks about a falling away that will happen. You need to get a concordance for the Bible so you can study seriously. The word used can mean "departing". This is a verse that could and probably does have a dual application. Departing means going away from true christianity and departing can also be christians departing for heaven in the rapture.

3. 2 Thess. 2:5-8 Someone is holding back the tribulation period and the appearing of the anti-christ. The only one stronger than satan is God(Holy Spirit). The Holy Spirit resides in christians right now and so when He is removed we are removed. God has promised that He would never take His spirit from us, so if He goes we go.

4. Luke 21:36 talks about a way to escape all the things to come(Jesus just talked about the end times before these verses). The word "escape" has the meaning of vanish which is what will happen in the rapture.

5. Acts 15:14-17 talks about God "taking out" (rapture) a people for His name. Then a "residue" of men will seek after the Lord. Residue means left down or left behind. The left Behind book series is a Biblical concept and the title has Biblical meaning.

6. Matthew 24:24 talks about that the "very elect" could be deceived during the trib period, and that would be possible except for one fact, we're gone.

7. Jesus in Matthew 16:13 talks about the fact that "the gates of hell shall not PREVAIL against the church" He is building.
7a. Revelation 13:7 says the antichrist will"overcome" the saints during the trib period.
7b. Daniel 7:21 says the saints will be "PREVAILED" against.
7c. Romans 11:25 talks about blindness on Israel's part toward Christ until the "fulness of the gentiles be come in". Fulness here means completion. Completion of the church.

It appears from these verses in #7 that not all saints will be in the church.

8. Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20 Jesus tells us the days are shortened for the elect. We don't have as many days as the rest of the world because the days are shortened(we are raptured out of time into eternity. There are no days in eternity.)
8a. Who are the elect? Colossians 3:12 tells us christians are the elect of God.

9. Revelation 3:6 tells us that God has made christians to be "kings and priests" unto Himself.
9a. Rev. ch. 2&3 talks about the churches.
9b. Rev. 4:1 has a door in heaven opened and a trumpet blast(see 1Corinthians 15:51-54 to see this trumpet blast is associated with the rapture.)
9c. Rev 4:4 and 4:10 talks about 24 elders(they represent the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles) jewish and gentile believers ie. the church.
9d. Rev. 5:8-10 tells us who the 24 elders are. They are people redeemed from every kindred tongue people and nation who were redeemed by the blood of the "lamb"(Jesus). and they have been made kings and priests unto God. Look back at Rev. 3:6. kings and priests again. The kings and priests(christians) of verse 3:6, talked about in CH. 2&3, raptured in verse 4:1 now seen in verses 4:4 and 4:10 and identified in verses 5:8-10.
9e. These elders are seen again in Rev. 5:14, 7:11, 7:13, 11:16, 14:3, 19:4, and every time they are in heaven. Then later in Rev. ch. 19 a door in heaven is opened and Christ returns with the "armies of heaven".

10. The Old Testament even foretells the rapture in Isaiah 26:20-21 and Isaiah 57:1.
11. Rev. 7:9-17 talks of an uncountable number who come out of "great tribulation". and Rev. 20:4 talks of some who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and did not take the mark of the beast. So there will be people who trust Christ in the tribulation period. But there is a difference now is the time to accept Christ and miss the tribulation horrors.

There is plenty of evidence in the Bible for the pre-trib rapture. There are other verses but these are the ones off the top of my head. Anyone and I mean ANYONE can become part of the church and miss the tribulation, but it needs to be done NOW. After that the tribulation comes and it may mean death to be associated with Christ



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:06 PM
link   

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number,
Proof positive that this will never happen.

Infinity is the only number man cannot conceive. So if Revelation is to be believed, then one can conclude that every person ever created goes in.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by marg6043
Hummm.................only virgin mens so that right there will tell you how bias the bible, girls have not change.

Revelations was not part of the original texts it was added after the church debated about it.

Better to keep the people afraid of hell than free I wonder if they knew how the population of the world was to grow through the centuries.



Before taking someones word for it and then inserting YOUR OWN bias, perhaps it would be better to study it for yourself

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

G5207
υἱός
uihos
hwee-os'
Apparently a primary word; a “son” (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figurative kinship: - child, foal, son.

ie.. the decendants of Israel (the person)

The same word is used in the following places . Its 'figurative' use can be seen by this

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


Christ came to save both man and woman. Both are adopted. Both become sons of God/children of God.

As it showed in my earlier link, the 144,000 are witnesses in Israel that are responsible for millions of conversions that are mentioned in the verses I showed



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok
The other tidbit, is that according to the good book, only 144000 are to be so saved, and these are all virgin men, descended from the 12 tribes of Israel...so a selective bunch at best it seems...



This is simply not true. I am a christian and this is what I do, read and study the Bible. God tells us that whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Revelation describes 24 elders(the church) and it also tells us of a group of people that are saved that is too large to count. I've read this same thing quoted other places. The 144,000 are a specific group that will witness about Christ during the thribulation.

To say that only 144,000 people make it to eternity with God tells me one thing and it is this. You have pulled out a verse and have never read and studied the entire Bible, or you would know that God desires that none should perish, not one man or woman, He loves both and both will be in heaven and eternity. People who have never read the entire Bible should seriously not speak with the authority that what they say is truth, for that also deceives people and turns them off of who Jesus really is and what the Bible really says.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number,
Proof positive that this will never happen.

Infinity is the only number man cannot conceive. So if Revelation is to be believed, then one can conclude that every person ever created goes in.



This means that there is a HUGE amount of people saved during the tribulation. If someone would try to count them it would be a task that a person would have trouble doing. It also means that since the tribulation will be the worst time man has ever known on earth, how could an uncountable number be saved. How, because God saves and with God all things are possible.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:33 PM
link   
jake1997

I beg your pardon
I suggest you research the history of the bible itself and its content before you believe so an outrageous myth.

But occurs will never do such a thing the bible is all you need. The Church has made sure of that, more than the bible to learn your historical facts.

Deny Ignorance.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:49 PM
link   
as a christian, i would have to agree that there is no proof nor evidence in the scriptures of a singular event known as the rapture or even implication of that which is the modern churches interpretation. the second coming, however, is a different story. here are a few good places to start.

www.reformed.com...

www.mountainretreatorg.net...


for those who claim such literal interpretation of the revelation, please spend some time studying the old testament and it's terribly profound symbolism (which is mirrored by new testament prophecy) before being so haughty with your understanding. for a quick example of this, please review the following link which defines the spiritual interpretation of 666.

www.mountainretreatorg.net...


and also the next link which defines the literal interpretation of 666.

www.reformed.org...


then again, my beliefs are not as sensational nor emotionally fulfilling as those that the modern church offers and therefore don't fare as well on the sales charts. most people simply hear what they want to hear.

c'est la vie.
daved



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 01:52 PM
link   
Dasher, I agree with you.




Holy Scripture states that the Lord shortened the Great Tribulation for the sake of the elect. Why would this be necessary if they had been raptured away? The prophetic texts (e.g. the book of Revelation) state that during the Tribulation the Church will be persecuted to a greater extent than at any other time in history. How could this be if the Church had been raptured away?

Once again, the Apostolic Fathers of the Church (who were trained by the Apostles while being scattered over the then-known world and without modern methods of communication) and the Doctors of the Church are unanimous in their writings that the Church will experience part or all of the Great Tribulation. They make NO mention of any Pre-Tribulational rapture.



www.efn.org...



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 02:05 PM
link   

Someone said that it doesn't matter if the rapture is pre-trib or post-trib. I wholeheartedly disagree. It's pre-trib and you want to escape the tribulation period(it will be the worst time the human race has ever known, worse than what Hitler did and worse the the catastrophe of Noah's flood.)


It's not pre-trib. It plainly states the 144000 are to be "sealed" against harm, but nothing about them leaving before the seals being broken.... At the end of it all, the 144000 and then the uncountable DECEASED but redeemed, are to go to Heaven, is the way I read it. So I suppose in that case you could claim more than the 144000 are to be "raptured", but really, the others aren't having anything more happen to them than if they died tomorrow and then went to Heaven...theologically speaking....but the 144000 are to not come to harm during the events of the openings of the seven seals....



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 02:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by marg6043

But occurs will never do such a thing the bible is all you need. The Church has made sure of that, more than the bible to learn your historical facts.

Deny Ignorance.


Marg you go girl!
They analyse what they want and use the bible for their purpose like the ones who wrote the bible....

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join