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Atlantic Trident. F-35A 'apparently' smokes the EF and the Rafale without a loss

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posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: muzzleflash

The most likely, and common way it happens is the Red Air aircraft regenerates close to the Blue Air aircraft, and is in a position for a snap shot as soon as they come back to life.
So spawn killing?


The F-15 was camping. I heard a few pilots bitching about it on my PS4 headset.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I went to that forum but I'm not seeing it. How about a link?
edit on 11 10 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 09:18 AM
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originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: muzzleflash

to add to what Zaph said, we don't know what the ROE's were, so most of the simulated kill ratios need to be taken with a grain of salt.


Based on the first Trilateral exercise two years ago. The goal was to educate each others forces on both the strengths and weaknesses of each other's aircraft to best employ tactics that benefitted operating in unison in highly contested environments.

They all tested each others skills and planes against each other, then based on that new information, then operated together against red forces and went from there.

So if I understand this correctly, it wasn't a DACT training in the sense of restricted training. It was closer to a all-out 'let's see what you've got'. Develop mutual respect and plan/train from there.

Err, I think...



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: muzzleflash

to add to what Zaph said, we don't know what the ROE's were, so most of the simulated kill ratios need to be taken with a grain of salt.


I've been keeping on eye on any results of both exercises as Zaphod wasn't saying squat about either. THAT perked my interest...


www.sldinfo.com...

This is the only one I've found....in English. The interesting comment by the RAF officer was how the French 'eyes were opened' on the capability of the F-22 and fifth Gens. ( The only encounter being in UAE which was a restricted DACT effort.)
edit on 11-10-2017 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 09:34 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: muzzleflash

The most likely, and common way it happens is the Red Air aircraft regenerates close to the Blue Air aircraft, and is in a position for a snap shot as soon as they come back to life.
So spawn killing?


The F-15 was camping. I heard a few pilots bitching about it on my PS4 headset.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I went to that forum but I'm not seeing it. How about a link?


I can Link to the F-16net but that's it. it's there under F-35 forum. Scroll until you see the Atlantic trident thread.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 09:38 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

This one?

Edit: Feel free to copy and paste this in your OP if you wish. Well that didn't work how I thought it would, but it's the correct thread. I was trying to post the entire url so you could copy/paste it but the forum here defeated me.
www.f-16.net...
edit on 11 10 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11 10 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 09:41 AM
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originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: nwtrucker

This one?

Edit: Feel free to copy and paste this in your OP if you wish. Well that didn't work how I thought it would, but it's the correct thread. I was trying to post the entire url so you could copy/paste it but the forum here defeated me.
www.f-16.net...


Yep. How'd you do that? I'm a computer moron......



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: muzzleflash

to add to what Zaph said, we don't know what the ROE's were, so most of the simulated kill ratios need to be taken with a grain of salt.


Here is a breadcrumb from the article....


For the exercise, the jets were held to a top speed of Mach 1.6, a maximum 50 degree angle of attack, and seven G turns. Despite these limits, the F-35s were still able to use stealth and sensors to make a difference, Bashore said. The strike fighters brought an advantage in situations where they could stay on station longer and use sensors to pass along a “common picture” of the battlespace to the other fighter aircraft



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 09:49 AM
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originally posted by: Drunkenparrot

originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: muzzleflash

to add to what Zaph said, we don't know what the ROE's were, so most of the simulated kill ratios need to be taken with a grain of salt.


Here is a breadcrumb from the article....


For the exercise, the jets were held to a top speed of Mach 1.6, a maximum 50 degree angle of attack, and seven G turns. Despite these limits, the F-35s were still able to use stealth and sensors to make a difference, Bashore said. The strike fighters brought an advantage in situations where they could stay on station longer and use sensors to pass along a “common picture” of the battlespace to the other fighter aircraft


So if I have this right, leaving out stealth, sensors and that advantage, one can add in a couple of 35s can linger longer playing an AWACs role and pass that data on to others with higher fuel reserves for the actual engagement.

NO FAIR



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

I'm horrible at explaining things. When you're making a post, directly above the type box there's a button that has a square with an arrow pointing up and to the right. That's for links. You click it, and the first dialog box asks you what you want to call your link (for example, I called mine "This one?") then you click OK and another box pops up asking you for the url, which you just copy and paste into it.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 10:16 AM
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There's a lot of arguing on the F16-net thread about the RCS of the Rafale. This poster pretty much summed it up:



At this point it's a lose-lose argument for Rafale vs Lightning. If the Rafale RCS is so amazingly super that it is better then 1m^2, then that only means the F-35s APG-81 is so amazingly super-er that it can still detect, track, and lock by the edge of an AIM-120C7 envelope. Once we have "X plane consistently detects/tracks/locks Y plane at Z range" then arguing over how good someones RCS is is only arguing how good the opposing radar is.

edit on 11 10 17 by face23785 because: Rafale not Typhoon


Edit: And on top of that, according to the article, none of the opposing planes detected the F-35s radar? Did I read that right?

Seems pretty convincing to me.
edit on 11 10 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 10:38 AM
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I've been saying forever wait until they take the handcuffs off, the f-35 will shock people who bought into the negativity.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: face23785
There's a lot of arguing on the F16-net thread about the RCS of the Rafale. This poster pretty much summed it up:



At this point it's a lose-lose argument for Rafale vs Lightning. If the Rafale RCS is so amazingly super that it is better then 1m^2, then that only means the F-35s APG-81 is so amazingly super-er that it can still detect, track, and lock by the edge of an AIM-120C7 envelope. Once we have "X plane consistently detects/tracks/locks Y plane at Z range" then arguing over how good someones RCS is is only arguing how good the opposing radar is.


Edit: And on top of that, according to the article, none of the opposing planes detected the F-35s radar? Did I read that right?

Seems pretty convincing to me.


You read it right.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I've been saying forever wait until they take the handcuffs off, the f-35 will shock people who bought into the negativity.


Another thing that makes this article interesting is the F-35 did such a good job BVR, the F-22 doesn't even get a 'nod' . No need for it's WVR talents?

Another part of the puzzle answered on why no more F-22s?
edit on 11-10-2017 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I've been saying forever wait until they take the handcuffs off, the f-35 will shock people who bought into the negativity.


I have been a critic of the F-35, although I was mostly critical of what a mess the program was. I never thought it would perform poorly against 4th gen fighters.

Note: I don't think your comment was directed at me, just sayin there are 2 types of negative people regarding the F-35.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: face23785

I call them critics and haters. Critics are fine.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Why single role fighters when you have a multi role beast.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: face23785

I call them critics and haters. Critics are fine.


Fair enough.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: Arnie123

Red Air has to regenerate, or the training would be over pretty quick, unless they had some insane number of them out on every training flight. At some point during the exercise, the regeneration point is going to be near where the fight is, and the Red Air pilot is going to be able to get a shot as soon as he's "alive".
edit on 10/11/2017 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Arnie123

Red Air has to regenerate, or the training would be over pretty quick, unless they had some insane number of them out on every training flight. At some point during the exercise, the regeneration point is going to be near where the fight is, and the Red Air pilot is going to be able to get a shot as soon as he's "alive".


Sounds like a commie tactic! Is that why they're called Red Air?



I kid, I kid.



posted on Oct, 11 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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The kill ratios sound like they could be right. This is what happens in BVR with stealth vs non stealth. The F-35 radar is very advanced LPI and hard to detect, the only warning would be when the AIM-120 goes active and lights up your RWR, if you're in the no escape zone you're fubar. The Typhoon and Rafale both have reduced frontal RCS but still not full stealth it just reduces detection range from frontal zone, a bit. So does super hornet.
If they start putting LPI radars on the BVR missiles it gets even more deadly. The F-35 never needs to go WVR.
The new Meteor missile with the F-35 or F-22 will be super bad.

Question for Zaphod would the F-35 have a smaller IR profile than the F-22 as it's 1 engine vs 2?



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