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Conservatives are the real campus thought police squashing academic freedom

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posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: avgguy
"To be both white and male is to be subject to a potent cocktail of entitlement to economic and political power, and to dominate nonwhite and female bodies."

Stopped taking th article serious here. What an aberrant nonsensical piece of trash.


This made me cringe so hard. Almost as bad as when he takes what 12 yr old internet edgelord trolls say seriously.




posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: bluesjr

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Metallicus

Because I'm tired of being demonized for actions that transcend partisan barriers.


Both sides are equal when it comes to reactions. But it certainly appears that the left is more likely to try and shut down free speech BEFORE the speech.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "appearances can be deceiving"? Just because it appears to be the case, doesn't make it so.


If you disagree, please highlight all of the times in the past year that the right has tried to shutdown an en event. To be equal you will need about 10+ examples, and that's just from Berkeley.

How about instead of uselessly comparing anecdotes YOU actually prove the point you are making with statistics and hard numbers instead of adopting a position and demanding that I disprove it for you?


This is why you feel the way you do. Sometimes you have to accept reality, to fight it will cause anguish.

The Berkeley riots are common knowledge, if you are unaware of them then just search for Berkeley right here in ATS.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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Well, a decent argument could be made here that the "left" that is accused of "trying to shut down free speech" amounts to:

1. College students (mostly at Berkeley) protesting certain speakers.
2. Those who have shown up to protests as "ANTIFA" and "BLM" and instigated violence (vandalism, etc.)

... and that's about it.

How many times has the Democratic Party staged a protest or counter protest? How about the Communist Party USA? How about the Green Party? These are organizations representing the "political left in the US." (Well, the Democrats are really center right, but we'll go with the normal presumptions for argument's sake.)

The answer is ... not at all. What we've seen here that is decried as "from the left" are the actions of special interest groups.
edit on 10-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: bluesjr

No. I trust to data and evidence, not my feelings. Find some religious dupe to believe that tripe. If you assert something, I expect adequate proof that backs up the claim. Anecdotes, especially in a vacuum like you are doing by talking about the Berkley riots, isn't proof of anything. It's just proof that you can google anecdotes, but anecdotes are easy to use to misrepresent the norm. Especially in today's day and age of media manipulation.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Well, a decent argument could be made here that the "left" that is accused of "trying to shut down free speech" amounts to:

1. College students (mostly at Berkeley) protesting certain speakers.
2. Those who have shown up to protests as "ANTIFA" and "BLM" and instigated violence (vandalism, etc.)

... and that's about it.

How many times has the Democratic Party staged a protest or counter protest? How about the Communist Party USA? How about the Green Party? These are organizations representing the "political left in the US." (Well, the Democrats are really center right, but we'll go with the normal presumptions for argument's sake.)

The answer is ... not at all. What we've seen here that is decried "from the left" are the actions of special interest groups.



I agree. And it should not be tolerated by anyone.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
It's FAR easier to send a death threat anonymously than it is to riot on the streets. What you said here is HIGHLY debatable. I'd reason, in fact, that far more people (from both sides of the political aisle) send death threats and other harassment online than riot in the streets.


Boy, thank you that is my point exactly. The left is involved in very demanding protests. Spending hours stopping traffic, destroying infrastructure, causing mayhem in many cities, completely shutting down freedom of speech events etc. etc. that all take a good deal of planning and commitment. And we compare this to some idiots that that do nothing more than type fives words in response.

I guess you do not see my point when I think "really?" when you post about the evils of the right wing protests and all we need to do is look left and say WTF.



And things aren’t letting up. While noteworthy cases such as Saida Grundy and Zandria Robinson in 2015 gave a glimpse of what was to come, the months since Trump’s election have seen a generalized assault on anti-racist academics


Just what is a "anti-racist academics" is that a new term for not wanting foreigners to illegally come into our county completely undocumented? I call it human trafficking but your labeling is so much nicer...lol



. In May, Tommy Curry at Texas A&M was targeted for a years-old podcast;


What is the podcast about...year old? People go back decades in what people have said...



Princeton’s Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor was forced to cancel public events after threats following a commencement speech;


She is pretty harsh..lol read her stuff, I did..what threats? where? how many? Was there people in the 1000s physically there to stop her from speaking?




and Johnny Eric Williams at Trinity College was targeted and suspended reposting someone else’s words on Facebook.


What was the post... If you repost something you agree with it right? Says he was targeted, by what? Seems that "targeted" was most likely replies to his reposing of something not very tasteful.




edit on 10-10-2017 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Interesting OP. I'll have to give this some more thought.

I read the entire story, then followed some of the links. This one was interesting:
www.nytimes.com...

That story is about the "Liberal Left" attacking one of their own for speaking out about the Evergreen State College kerfuffle over its "A day without whites on Campus" business.

You stated:

Agree or not with the title, but to sit there and say the liberal left is only assaulting free speech is a lie to its core.


Yea, its a lie. What strikes me is that it appears that both those on the left and the right are mostly concerned about what might be categorized as hate speech, i.e., to what extent hate speech protected as free speech. As an example, we have the case of Tommy Curry, Texas A&M Professor and his famous article:


The article, called “When Is It OK to Kill Whites?” quotes Curry as saying in the podcast, “In order to be equal, in order to be liberated, some white people might have to die.”

www.insidehighered.com...

That comment, BTW, was somewhat taken out of context. From the American Conservative article:
www.theamericanconservative.com...


In this interview with a blogcast called Context Of White Supremacy (slogan: “White People Are The Problem”), Curry argues that whites cannot be ignorant of racism (their own or anyone else’s) and that black people who assume that whites are educable on racism are fools. He puts down different black theorists, including Martin Luther King, for actually thinking that white people can be regarded as reasonable. It’s a remarkable thing: a philosophy professor who denies that a people are capable of rational thought because of their race. In this talk, Curry denounces the “integrationist” model of race relations, and describes the black-white relationship as one of power. “White people don’t want to question their physical life and certainly not their own racial existence,” he says. “Because that means they would have to accept that death could come for them at any moment, the same way non-white people have to accept that. And they don’t want to question their existence, they’re not willing to give up their existence. They’ll hold on to their white life just as much as a [unclear] will hold on to a crack pipe. They are fundamentally addicted to the purity of what they see whiteness to be.”


So, as I read that, Curry is propounding the idea that the integrationist solution to the toxic state of race relations in the US is a failure because the black-white relationship is one (of) (or about) power.

The failure or success of the integrationist solution is a question for another day. But obviously, many felt threatened by Curry's statement that some white people might have to die and sought to suppress what they saw as hate speech that might incite violence against white people.

So, yea, both the right and the left seek to stifle hate speech and don't see it as subject to 1st Amendment protections.

But I just read the First Amendment and it states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Interesting...............this isn't about "Congress", but rather, this is about these Colleges and Universities student bodies petitioning to ban certain speakers on the basis of those speakers spewing "hate" speech, not about Congress.

Considering the toxic and often violent atmosphere of great division in the US today, maybe we need to expand our definition of what is and what is not "Free" speech? So, the Supremes ruled that yelling fire in a crowded theatre isn't protected speech............maybe stating that some white people need to die isn't protected speech either!



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: bluesjr

There's a lot that should "not be tolerated" ... so I'm not sure of your actual point. Vandals and those who have done violence have been apprehended and are being dealt with in our justice system.

What do you want? Public executions in front of the Capitol?

My point is that there is nothing beyond a media narrative that demonstrates recent upticks in political violence as "from the left."



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

There you go again grouping all of the left for the actions of a few.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Xtrozero

There you go again grouping all of the left for the actions of a few.


... and yet, the same folks have spent days and weeks justifying the acts of Nazis and White Supremacists while crying about having them IDed as "right-wing."

The whole false dichotomy boggles the mind.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Berkeley Anti-fa certainly doesn't help with their barking on command however it would be nice if they would get a whiff of their piles of dog sht.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Berkeley Anti-fa certainly doesn't help with their barking on command however it would be nice if they would get a whiff of their piles of dog sht.


Isn't it interesting that so much national attention from "both sides" is directed at Berkeley?



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

My point is that there is nothing beyond a media narrative that demonstrates recent upticks in political violence as "from the left."



Can you agree there has been a lot of protesting around the country these last few years with violence or intent violence right on the edge?



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Xtrozero

There you go again grouping all of the left for the actions of a few.


Kind of ironic in a thread entitled "Conservatives are the real campus thought police squashing academic freedom".




posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: TonyS

First off. Thank you immensely for being the first conservative poster to take my thread seriously.



But I just read the First Amendment and it states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Interesting...............this isn't about "Congress", but rather, this is about these Colleges and Universities student bodies petitioning to ban certain speakers on the basis of those speakers spewing "hate" speech, not about Congress.

Actually this is a hang up I have when conservative posters talk about liberal people denying free speech on campuses. TECHNICALLY the first amendment isn't violated in any of these situations. It becomes a philosophical debate as opposed to a legal one, which makes things even murkier. I'd, personally, prefer to side on the 1st Amendment and just accept that these actions aren't technically denying free speech. Those speakers are still free to speak elsewhere, for instance. This goes for both speakers on the left and right.


Considering the toxic and often violent atmosphere of great division in the US today, maybe we need to expand our definition of what is and what is not "Free" speech? So, the Supremes ruled that yelling fire in a crowded theatre isn't protected speech............maybe stating that some white people need to die isn't protected speech either!

See. I feel like such an undertaking would be a dangerous slippery slope. I barely tolerate the "don't yell fire in a crowded theater" rule. The real answer to this problem (and many more plaguing our politics) is better civics education. People need to learn EXACTLY what the rights cover and don't cover so we stop wasting time on frivolous discussions that lead nowhere because the government doesn't have the authority to act on them.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Xtrozero

There you go again grouping all of the left for the actions of a few.


Kind of ironic in a thread entitled "Conservatives are the real campus thought police squashing academic freedom".


True. I'll give you that, but I didn't write the article title and I DID voice some mild reservations to it in the OP. I would have preferred a different title that was less partisan so I could have put the thread in the Education and Media forum, but I'll take the hit anyways.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You mean a Liberal Arts college in California? Can't imagine why...



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gryphon66

My point is that there is nothing beyond a media narrative that demonstrates recent upticks in political violence as "from the left."



Can you agree there has been a lot of protesting around the country these last few years with violence or intent violence right on the edge?


Sure ... I'd start with the "Tea Party protests" back in 2010. Was your point merely that there has been an uptick in political violence? I agree.

As far as violence with a perceivable political "side" affiliation ... where we start here is debatable. How about Oklahoma City April 19, 1995?
edit on 10-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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To be both white and male is to be subject to a potent cocktail of entitlement to economic and political power, and to dominate nonwhite and female bodies.


As a 58 year old White male I can't relate to any part of that.
I don't consider myself vastly different from my White counterparts either.
That's a potent cocktail alright, sorry to say I've never tasted it.
edit on 10-10-2017 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-10-2017 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

... and yet, the same folks have spent days and weeks justifying the acts of Nazis and White Supremacists while crying about having them IDed as "right-wing."

The whole false dichotomy boggles the mind.


I'm not sure what Nazis and White Supremacists are... I do know they are small in numbers and basically were considered idiot losers until the left and media gave them what they been wanting for decades....someone to notice them...lol



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