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Conservatives are the real campus thought police squashing academic freedom

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posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm saying that either side defending bad acts due to the bad acts of the other side is wrong minded. Both sides need to knock it off; it's dishonest.

Personally I've had my fill of both sides if that helps. I'm not partisan. Chewing the same old bubblegum from both sides has lost it's flavor long ago.




posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408
The left tries to silence speech. It’s been proven.

The right tries to silence speech. It’s been proven.

The left tries to force speech (PC).

The right tries to force speech (NFL).



It’s not partisan.



There... did that really need 10 pages?



Ha. No, it didn't.

However, the censorship seems to go in cycles. I wager a resurgence of right-wing censorship will rear its ugly head again, but as of now, the left holds to mantle.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:28 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm saying that either side defending bad acts due to the bad acts of the other side is wrong minded. Both sides need to knock it off; it's dishonest.



That's true, but not in the nature of "sides" ... we have an alternative ... we can start focusing on solutions or we can continue to focus on differences.


originally posted by: Blaine91555

Personally I've had my fill of both sides if that helps. I'm not partisan. Chewing the same old bubblegum from both sides has lost it's flavor long ago.


I believe that the important thing (for Americans) is to support the Constitution. To me that is the fundamental beginning, middle and end of our politics. I support relying on evidence for decision-making, and trying to focus on the best evidence possible.

That said, OP here is making a valid point, in my opinion. There's zero "justification" in fact, there's pointing to the real problem as beyond partisanship.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm fine at leaving your baseless accusations as just that, opinion, but I have to wonder how you can rationally hold an opinion without first discerning the facts of the matter? There is a fine line between opinion and dogma. It doesn't matter—if you're ever willing to back up your baseless conclusions I'll be more than happy to argue otherwise, and maybe we can discern the truth together.


My "baseless accusations" are simply one statement about my opinion. As usual, you're conflating, exaggerating, and scrutinizing in a vain attempt to create something out of nothing. You've stated that the articles in the right-wing media are "honest" reactions to the author in the OP's article, I'm saying that they aren't. What about that, you and I have different opinions.

I don't have to justify anything to you, for you or because of you. I stated an opinion; you stated an opinion, and now, all you're doing is attempting to walk away from the undeniable fact that the author in the OPs' article, a professor at Drexel University, has been effectively shut down (silenced) by the actions of right-wing media and "the right."

That's the only fact that needs backing up here, and that has been done admirably. NO ONE including me gives a hoot in hell about your opinions of anything.
edit on 10-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: intrepid

Just creating context here. I'm tired of being blamed that free speech is being eroded in the country just because I'm a liberal when both partisan sides are responsible for these activities. Granted none of it is a violation of the 1st Amendment, but this double standard needs to be addressed.


The idea that on a college campus the right is the real thought police is absolutely absurd.

Just because a bunch of right-wing internet bullies sent him threats? How does that compare to violent rallies where people are assaulted for what they think, or even better, what some rioting leftist believes they think.

The right-wing may be the thought police on pro football fields and many other places, but on campus isn't one of them.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
OP clearly states a recent circumstance by which death threats generated by dishonest coverage from the "right wing' media has effectively silenced Dr. Ciccariello-Maher at Drexel University.

Can any of you dispute that? If not, the OP's point stands.


Was his Constitutional rights violated? Seems the term "effectively silenced" is just empty rhetoric for being put on administrative leave. The funny part is administrative leave typically aligns with poor actions, as in someone does something wrong and they are put on administrative leave until proof is determine,..then they are fired.

I'm not saying you are incorrect just that administrative leave is not good...



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:35 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

What makes you think that irate college students comprise "the left."?

What makes you think that a limited number of seemingly professional "agitators" that show up at events comprise "the left."

Does "the left" merely include anything you don't like?



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:35 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




That said, OP here is making a valid point, in my opinion. There's zero "justification" in fact, there's pointing to the real problem as beyond partisanship.


The real problem, at least when it comes to free speech, is that the college put the professor on leave for reasons of "health and safety", which has become a growing tactic of censorship among institutions and companies. It's the heckler's veto, and it is growing increasingly popular.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:38 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gryphon66
OP clearly states a recent circumstance by which death threats generated by dishonest coverage from the "right wing' media has effectively silenced Dr. Ciccariello-Maher at Drexel University.

Can any of you dispute that? If not, the OP's point stands.


Was his Constitutional rights violated? Seems the term "effectively silenced" is just empty rhetoric for being put on administrative leave. The funny part is administrative leave typically aligns with poor actions, as in someone does something wrong and they are put on administrative leave until proof is determine,..then they are fired.

I'm not saying you are incorrect just that administrative leave is not good...



Were Dr. Ciccariello-Maher's Constitutional rights violated? Hmmm. Effectively, yes. Legally? probably not.

You feel like being placed on admin leave is empty rhetoric. Okay. Dr. Ciccariello-Maher doesn't. I can understand why for precisely what you bring up.

Placing someone on administrative leave is typically a kind of punishment, which is why, I believe Dr. Ciccariello-Maher stated that he was pursuing legal counsel.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



I'm just saying that it is not an opinion that the reporting is dishonest, and we can verify that through the common means of evidence and argument, something which is admittedly a little more difficult than accepting something out of hand because someone said so, but a much more valid means of seeking truth. Anything less is dogmatism.

You don't have to justify anything. You can continue to make baseless conclusions and accusations as you see fit. You don't have to alter your opinion or justify it whatsoever. Likewise, I can toss shade on your baseless conclusions as much as I like.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe




The idea that on a college campus the right is the real thought police is absolutely absurd.

Just because a bunch of right-wing internet bullies sent him threats? How does that compare to violent rallies where people are assaulted for what they think, or even better, what some rioting leftist believes they think.

The right-wing may be the thought police on pro football fields and many other places, but on campus isn't one of them.



You'd be surprised. According to the FIRE Disinvitation database, the right engages in protest and heckling with relative high frequency.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66




That said, OP here is making a valid point, in my opinion. There's zero "justification" in fact, there's pointing to the real problem as beyond partisanship.


The real problem, at least when it comes to free speech, is that the college put the professor on leave for reasons of "health and safety", which has become a growing tactic of censorship among institutions and companies. It's the heckler's veto, and it is growing increasingly popular.


Indeed. Although Drexel is a private institution, freedom of speech, along with many others, are natural rights as well as Constitutionally protected rights.

Academic freedom is based somewhere between the two categories, I should think.


edit on 10-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:49 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

You don't have to justify anything. You can continue to make baseless conclusions and accusations as you see fit. You don't have to alter your opinion or justify it whatsoever. Likewise, I can toss shade on your baseless conclusions as much as I like.


Stating that my word choice is baseless is merely your opinion, as you have done nothing to counter my claim of opinion aside from offering your own. SO?

As usual, you focus on trivial matters (in this case, my choice of the word "dishonest") that do not relate to the point of the topic or even to the claim I made in my opinion statement. Yes, you can "throw shade" on my opinions by harping on your own semantic interpretations ... but who cares? What does it contribute?

Those are rhetorical questions: the answers are nobody and nothing.
edit on 10-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 05:58 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

How is anyone supposed to knock anything off if only one side of the issue is acknowledged? It's a two sided problem with each side using different tactics. Around here though it's largely only the left that gets blasted for it. It's not a matter of fairness or tit for tat... it's a matter of busting up an echo chamber and trying to get some dialogue going.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




Stating that my word choice is baseless is merely your opinion, as you have done nothing to counter my claim of opinion aside from offering your own. SO?


I don't have to do anything—that which can be asserted with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence—but personally I try to make sure I know the truth before I make the claims.

There is nothing trivial about the claim that a piece of reporting is dishonest, especially when we accuse others of "generating threats" due to dishonest reporting. I've already gone over this, so repeating it would be futile.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

I just "acknowledged" that both sides are at fault?

It's a matter of both sides being blinded by being partisan at a level it's blinded them to the truth about themselves.

It's also a case of both sides blaming the actions of fringe groups to the entirety of the Right or Left, when in fact the fringe groups do no represent but a tiny part of either side.

Both sides are in denial. Hate is addictive and both sides are drunk with hate.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

Were Dr. Ciccariello-Maher's Constitutional rights violated? Hmmm. Effectively, yes. Legally? probably not.

You feel like being placed on admin leave is empty rhetoric. Okay. Dr. Ciccariello-Maher doesn't. I can understand why for precisely what you bring up.


Admin leave isn't but calling it "effectively silenced" is empty rhetoric.



Placing someone on administrative leave is typically a kind of punishment, which is why, I believe Dr. Ciccariello-Maher stated that he was pursuing legal counsel.


Well it isn't punishment, it is what a company does when they are investigating poor performance that typically leads to termination. They could have done a bunch of other things instead if they were just trying to protect him.

So did he "effectively silenced" himself with improper actions, did the school do it to protect themselves or him, or did the keyboard trolls do it? Looking at his rather conversational views and actions with the administrative leave I leaning that he silenced himself. It would be interesting to follow this case to where it ends up.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

My claim was not that the articles were "dishonest" which is what you're obsessively focusing on.

My claim was here:



OP clearly states a recent circumstance by which death threats generated by dishonest coverage from the "right wing' media has effectively silenced Dr. Ciccariello-Maher at Drexel University.


Now, here is a version in which your obsession point is removed ... let's try again.

OP clearly states a recent circumstance by which death threats generated by coverage from the "right wing' media has effectively silenced Dr. Ciccariello-Maher at Drexel University.

Can you dispute that OP stated the circumstance as I have described? If you can, do so.

Can you dispute that death threats were received by Dr. Ciccariello-Maher? If you can, do so.

Can you prove that the death threats were not generated by the coverage by certain media outlets as described by Dr. Ciccariello-Maher? If you can, do so.

Can you demonstrate that these threats that were generated by the afore mentioned coverage did not result in Drexel placing Dr. Ciccariello-Maher on administrative leave? If you can, do so.

If you cannot, you are merely regurgitating the same vain, pointless argument.



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

Indeed. Although Drexel is a private institution, freedom of speech, along with many others, are natural rights as well as Constitutionally protected rights.



This is not a Constitutional event...As an employer I can tell you what to say, how to say it, what to wear, when to work, how to act so on and so on, you can quit and I can fire....



posted on Oct, 10 2017 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

Why would you "lean" to the idea that he silenced himself? There's zero evidence for that in the material provided.

Here is his faculty page at Drexel.

He demonstrates an active research and publication history as well as a fine academic background (including Cambridge and Berkeley).

Further ...



Ciccariello-Maher didn’t just go after conservatives; he also attacked liberals for their push for stricter gun laws in the wake of the tragedy.

“To believe that someone who would shoot down 50 people wouldn’t circumvent any gun law you pass is the height of delusion,” Ciccariello-Maher wrote, claiming that both the gun lobby and supporters of gun control are “racist as [expletive].”


Further ...



“Due to a growing number of threats directed at Professor George Ciccariello-Maher, and increased concerns about both his safety and the safety of Drexel’s community, after careful consideration the university has decided to place Professor Ciccariello-Maher on administrative leave,” Drexel said in a statement. “We believe this is a necessary step to ensure the safety of our campus.” The university would not elaborate when asked.


philly.com

No, the case is exceptionally strong that as a result of the ginning up of hatred and angst on the part of the right-wing media against Dr. C-M, that both he and the university have received credible threats and this resulted in his being placed on leave.

That's what the facts show; opinions vary.



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