I'm confused why is Trump a Bully when dealing with North Korea?

Trump is the bad boy, Hillary could never be a bad boy. She is not a boy.

I just can't figure out why Obama's administration did nothing with NK, his reign allowed Kim's missiles to get way more dangerous. We should look at the neglect of the last president, possibly even bush, in this matter. Although, their advancement was mostly in the last eight years, Bush may not need his hedge trimmed for that.

a reply to: DexterRiley

Its not as simple as you think in regards to China and NoKo. A popular notion, which may be a misconception is the actual influence China wields over NoKo. They may not have that kind of influence and that dangerous perception is putting China agaisnt a wall.

An excerpt from Business Insider, 25JUN17.

"...there are two reasons the US would continue to demand further action from China.

First, the US will explore all options within a certain window of time before resorting to force. In the lead-up to the Iraq War in 2003, the international community tried to mediate a solution, and the US declined the offer.

This time, it will seek mediation from anyone willing to offer-even Dennis Rodman, who visited North Korea just last week.

If it decides that a strike is necessary, the US wants to be able to point out that it tried every diplomatic solution, including using China as a mediator, before resorting to force." (Synder et al).

It's an interesting piece and good read for deeper thinking on the situation.

Source:
www.businessinsider.com...

originally posted by: Metallicus
It is about liberals finding anything and everything to throw at Trump and see if something sticks. They would rather see Trump fail and have 100s of thousands of Americans killed than let him be successful.

We really don't have to throw anything at Trump. He throws us all a shameful amount of embarrassing idiocy almost daily. No need for us to search for it. Trump is failing by leading us down a path that could very well result in 100s of thousands of American deaths. Well, in truth, that's just one of the ways he's failing. There are plenty of other ways, but this is the OT one.

a reply to: Arnie123

Yep. It's definitely a complicated situation. Your link was an interesting read. And I see the parallels between entry into the Iraq war and the situation in NK. At least insofar as the justification to go to war.

But I'm actually thinking in terms of military action, or other strong arm tactics. Most of the economic actions have been exhausted by everyone.

If there's going to be war on China's border, I'm of the opinion that China will be the one to take that action, not the US. Or, it's possible that the US will start it, and China will come in to clean up.

Anyway, my knowledge is limited in this area. It's all supposition on my part based on imperfect information, and possibly my unfamiliarity with International relations in this area has led me to a pie-in-the-sky conclusion.

-dex

a reply to: Stephen20

Trump and Fat Boy are just puppets and therefore just following a script.

a reply to: rickymouse

I believe the reason US didn't take out NK in the past was because the TPTB (not the Deep State but the ones above and the ones Trump answers to) told them to stand down.

If North Korea really was against them then they would have been invaded a long time ago.

Just look at leaders like Thomas Sankara, former President of the African nation Burkina Faso. He went against the TPTB by rejecting the IMF and so was taken out.

originally posted by: rickymouse
Trump is the bad boy, Hillary could never be a bad boy. She is not a boy.

I just can't figure out why Obama's administration did nothing with NK, his reign allowed Kim's missiles to get way more dangerous. We should look at the neglect of the last president, possibly even bush, in this matter. Although, their advancement was mostly in the last eight years, Bush may not need his hedge trimmed for that.

They did. In fact the Obama administration did almost exactly what Trump is doing, and it's all the same as what Bush decided was a good idea.

Clearly a hardliner policy is a failure.

a reply to: Stephen20

There is no reason for confusion. Trump is rich man who is accustomed to having his own way and having others bow down to him. To him people are more robots than human. the NK bloke wont play by his rules thats why things are as they are.

Do these people really think this is not the way the world works? "Bullying" (if that's what you want to call it) is what this world is built on.

One bully took some land. He ruled that land until a bigger bully came along and took the land. Alexander the Great was a huuuuge bully. He bullied tons of people weaker than him yet he is celebrated literally for his greatness.

It's not like governments have always been super nice to each other and that Trump is the first bully. The difference is that Trump is making his bullying open to the public via Twitter. His transparency is a revelation.

Anyone consider HONESTY.....Trump is being honest.....lol....if you threaten to attack a Superpower what is the absolutely expected response???......we all know and NK knows and Rocketrman knows......so if Trump says he will destroy NK if they attack america or make it look like they are doing so....he is simply being flat out honest and trying to avoid the dynamic if he can.

a reply to: one4all

Are you really defending Trump's loudmouth and school girl twittering with honesty?

I thought we voted for leadership.

We're not talking Sunday school and the Ten Commandments.

Please. Intelligence, thoughtfulness, military intellect and statesmanship. Among many other traits that Trump has not demonstrated....yet.

a reply to: Stephen20

President Trump is a bully because Donald Trump is a bully ... simple.

ANSWER: WAR.

War is not an answer it's an admission of defeat , if you believe that going to war with North Korea is the answer then you are sadly mistaken.

a reply to: Stephen20

You know why you Americans have problems?

because this...

Democrat representative Pramila Jayapal

Pramila Jayapal...is your democratic representative.

Jayapal was born in Chennai, India, to an Indian family and was raised in Indonesia and Singapore.[5] She immigrated to the United States in 1982, at the age of 16, to attend college. She earned her bachelor's degree from Georgetown University, and an MBA from Northwestern University.[3]

aaaah...warms my heart. Land of opportunity...a land where you can immigrate to from the world most backwards a hole...and still piss on the sitting president of the country that took you in and gave you everything you never had.

Democracy...I dont like it. I love it.

Carry on.

a reply to: scojak

So you think that might makes right?

originally posted by: Sagacity
Links and proof for any of that?

Trump wants Japan and South Korea to go nuclear:
www.cbsnews.com...

Trump wants a nuclear Iran by pulling out of the deal and having nothing to replace it with (in essence, nothing to stop them from going nuclear)

North Korea wants to stay in power, and they think they need nukes to do so. Considering that nukes are the only thing currently keeping the US from attacking them... he's proving them right.

originally posted by: rickymouse
Trump is the bad boy, Hillary could never be a bad boy. She is not a boy.

I just can't figure out why Obama's administration did nothing with NK, his reign allowed Kim's missiles to get way more dangerous. We should look at the neglect of the last president, possibly even bush, in this matter. Although, their advancement was mostly in the last eight years, Bush may not need his hedge trimmed for that.

Obama couldn't get them to the negotiating table due to obstruction from Congress. We had a moderately successful deal with NK which W destroyed.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: Stephen20

You know why you Americans have problems?

because this...

Democrat representative Pramila Jayapal

Pramila Jayapal...is your democratic representative.

Jayapal was born in Chennai, India, to an Indian family and was raised in Indonesia and Singapore.[5] She immigrated to the United States in 1982, at the age of 16, to attend college. She earned her bachelor's degree from Georgetown University, and an MBA from Northwestern University.[3]

aaaah...warms my heart. Land of opportunity...a land where you can immigrate to from the world most backwards a hole...and still piss on the sitting president of the country that took you in and gave you everything you never had.

Democracy...I dont like it. I love it.

Carry on.

you're going to be buried 2 feet shallow after you die. it would be a waste of time to dig 6 feet. you should be scavenger dinner.

carry on.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: scojak

So you think that might makes right?

I think right or wrong is not the issue here. Trump is doing what Presidents do, just more publicly. Yes, even the great Obama was a bully at times. Hillary would've done the same thing, only she wouldn't have tweeted about it. That's just the way government works. Call it right or wrong if it helps you sleep better at night, but a realist will understand it's a necessary evil.

originally posted by: Zelun
More and more I think that this is what "draining the swamp" looks like. It makes sense to me that Establishmentarians wouldn't go without a fight. WWIII will not begin over Twitter, and you can mark my words on that. KJU is most likely developing nuclear first strike capabilities as a deterrent, just like everyone else did. All he needs to do is say that, that he does not intend to commit to first strike on the US or any of its allies. The US et al would still put up a fuss, but it would still be a step in the right direction.

But these words aren't coming from North Korea, they're coming from our spineless politicians who refuse to show the world that the USA is united. The reason the world is laughing at us is not because Trump is our President, it's because we look like divided weaklings. Look, sometimes the home team wins, sometimes the away team takes the day, but guess what? The king is dead, long live the king. That's just a turn of phrase, btw, it means life goes on. Get behind your country, for Pete's sake.

Except North Korea has stated multiple times they will make the 1st strike.

originally posted by: scojak
I think right or wrong is not the issue here. Trump is doing what Presidents do, just more publicly. Yes, even the great Obama was a bully at times. Hillary would've done the same thing, only she wouldn't have tweeted about it. That's just the way government works. Call it right or wrong if it helps you sleep better at night, but a realist will understand it's a necessary evil.

No, Trump is not doing what Presidents do. Until recently (2009 and prior) US internal squabbling stopped at our borders. Foreign policy was dictated with a unified voice, which was that of the President, communicated to other nations through the State department, our various ambassadors to other nations, and our UN ambassador.

Since then, our foreign policy voice has not been unified. At first it was the Pentagon who lost faith in Hillary Clinton and was negotiating their own back door diplomacy. Then it was the House of Representatives negotiating policy around President Obama and Secretary of State Kerry. Now we have the President delivering their own message while the Pentagon is still offering up their own diplomacy through back door channels, and the State Department has been undermined.

While it's ok (in terms of setting a national direction) for Trump to be a hard liner. What is not ok is for other factions in the government to be offering up mixed messages. That means, that what Trump says is what we should abide by, and that the other messages should be ignored.

What Trump is saying, is that America is an untrustworthy partner to negotiate with. All he has done with his rhetoric is legitimized the North Korean nuclear program, by making it very clear that without nukes we would have invaded them already. He is about to create a nuclear arms race in the Middle East by tearing up the Iran deal (a deal that literally everyone in the world other than the t-D crowd supports). He's probably pushing Venezuela down the nuclear path, and he's punishing Ukraine for actually trusting that we would support them if they gave up their nukes. Oh, and he's pushing for a nuclear Japan and South Korea.

Donald Trump is an unmitigated failure in terms of foreign policy. Everything from bad ideas, to tearing up deals, to undermining our own governments legitimacy.

If Trump didn't want to be a bully, he could do it. He would just need a sane policy such as a commitment that America will honor it's deals, affirmation that we have no desire to conquer North Korea, letting the state department communicate with NK. And likely, trying to get some talks restarted with North Korea so that we could build a new deal like the one we had until W tore it up (which started this whole nuclear mess in the first place)

a reply to: Aazadan

I agree with a good bit of what's in your post. Our foreign policy is a mess, and has been. From week to week or month to month, I doubt many Americans can tell you what the heck is going on.

I do, however, slightly disagree with the latter comments regarding Bush. Well, I don't disagree that he decided to end Clinton's deal with NK. But my understanding is he did so with good reason. North Korea was violating that agreement by secretly enriching uranium. They themselves admitted that in 2002. They were also involved in trading missile components and tech with Iran and Yemen as well. That's simplistic of course as there was a lot of tit for tat going on between all the players, and too much rhetoric on both sides.

It would be great if both sides could actually move forward and resolve things diplomatically of course. But as we all know, NK isn't giving up their nuclear ambitions, and the U.S. and some allies are clear that they feel that's something they won't allow to stand. I'm also not sure that either side will step back and dial back the comments long enough to let things slow down a bit.