Teenager 'thrown out of school' for sitting during Pledge of Allegiance

a reply to: Liquesence

in most schools you would be right but this school belongs to an independent school district and doesn't have any connection to the state or any governmental organization, unfortunately the constitution has no authority at such schools as far as i can tell.

Freedom of expression isn't freedom from consequence.

That being said, WTF is this school admin thinking...kicking someone out of school for that? Good grief, talk about over-reaction.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

While I would disagree, I would have to support the student for standing up for her rights not to stand.

The Jehovah Witnesses do not put their hand on their heart during the anthem. They believe they have allegience to a higher power. They inform the school, they are a reasonable group of people. They also have a high respect for our government, but will not vote for president or other political positions. I understand why they do these things, they are not trying to stir things up, they allow others to vote for the president and will follow the laws that are created.

This is different than what the NFL players are doing, you cannot compare the two. The NFL players are misusing their influence to force political position. They are beginning to think they are more important than our elected officials, after all they get ten times the amount of pay that elected officials get. It is going to their head, they are trying to use their influence to intimidate their followers to vote as they want to vote. They also do not respect the people who voted to get our president in and are disrespecting our government system. This is not freedom of speech, this is intimidation.

I would need more information to make an opinion on that kids behavior. I do see the point of the school and also the point of the kid, but has that kid been influenced by the NFL players?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Same. If she did indeed have the right to sit, the school should be punished. The school was definitely the bigger SJW if this is the case.

Didn't think schools still did that to tell the truth. Some of you are over thinking the pledge. I never thought of it as me giving my life to some authoritative figure. It wasn't about that at all. I saw it as a promise to treat those around me with respect and decency. The government is not the Republic. We are. Not they or them or however you want to label it. Does the girl have the right to sit. Yes she does. The school shouldn't be able to deny anyone of an education because of someone's beliefs. That's not America. Both I believe are wrong. You can hate the system. Protest all you want but the things that are supposed to make us stronger shouldn't be used to make us weaker. By allowing this. Only worst is yet to come.

That's just my opinion and it has no value.

I shall tell you all a story.

I was in grade school in the early 60s. Back then every morning began with announcements over the PA. We stood, faced the flag in the classroom, put hands over hearts and pledged allegiance along with the Principal over the intercom.

Back then the furor was over the word God in the Pledge, our first grade teacher was a Mrs. Smith , an old teacher with many years under her belt teaching grade schoolers. We were informed one day we didn't have to have the pledge in the classroom any more. In fact , there was this thing going on (form somewhere) that was pressuring us not to do it.

Mrs. Smith had the class vote whether we would keep doing it or not. We voted to keep doing it. What did we know, we were in first grade.
So the 'people' that were pressuring us to stop came into class that morning, the first morning that the pledge was not going to be aired over the intercom, and they stood in the back of the classroom, observing us.

When the announcements were over , instead of starting our classwork, as one we all rose and pledged the allegiance to the flag.

The next day Mrs Smith was not our teacher anymore. She got fired. She got fired for letting us do the pledge, she didn't lead us and she didn't go along with it, just sat at her desk. We kids did the Pledge on our own.

Imo, she got fired because she let us make up our own minds about it.

Best lesson on politics in the classroom I ever got from a teacher, sticks with me to this day.

en.wikipedia.org...

It was a significant court victory won by Jehovah's Witnesses, whose religion forbade them from saluting or pledging to symbols, including symbols of political institutions. However, the Court did not address the effect the compelled salutation and recital ruling had upon their particular religious beliefs but instead ruled that the state did not have the power to compel speech in that manner for anyone.

I would think that the school district is in deep crap.

A good lawyer is going to tear them a new on in court.

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: Liquesence

in most schools you would be right but this school belongs to an independent school district and doesn't have any connection to the state or any governmental organization, unfortunately the constitution has no authority at such schools as far as i can tell.

Even though independent, the school is a public school, not a private school.

The Constitution has "authority" as delineated by subsequent precedent for the fact that it's a *public* school.

a reply to: Gothmog

Or a yung un that said no to indoctrination.

Why are kids forced to stand and pledge allegiance to something they most likely don't understand? That's right, indoctrination. Get them while they're young.

a reply to: rickymouse

This is different than what the NFL players are doing, you cannot compare the two.

Why can't we?

The NFL players are misusing their influence to force political position.

Whether or not they are misusing anything is an entirely subjective opinion. How are they "forcing" anything? Are you saying the existence of police brutality is a political position or that whether or not anyone should care is a political position?

They are beginning to think they are more important than our elected officials, after all they get ten times the amount of pay that elected officials get.

I'm not following. What does "important" mean specifically in that sentence? I'm assuming "influential" from context? Lots of people are more influential than most politicians, including in matters of politics. So what? Congress has an approval rating in the low 20s, if that.

to intimidate their followers to vote as they want to vote.

They're threatening fans now? With what?

They also do not respect the people who voted to get our president in

Not standing for the national anthem is a slight against Trump voters? That's certainly a very self-centered opinion.

and are disrespecting our government system.

Our government system has a lot of problems. That's why we have an extensible framework for making improvements. I'm really struggling to understand the point you're making here.

This is not freedom of speech, this is intimidation.

There you go again. How is taking a knee during the national anthem a threatening act? Who is being threatened and with what are they being threatened?

a reply to: Boomy327

Just curious, where abouts in Colorado? I went to highschool there as well and remember it quite the same. I actually went to two different districts and one of them didnt do the pledge at all in high school only elementary. I guess they figured if the indoctrination hadnt taken hold by then, it wouldnt ever.

When we say the pledge of allegiance, part of that is pledging to uphold the right to *not* say the pledge. Forcing people to say the pledge goes against the whole point.

When I was in high school I never stood nor recited the Pledge of Allegiance.

My my what people get upset about out...

When I was in school long ago we recited the pledge, teacher read a short passage from the bible, took attendance and read any announcements.

The teacher still paddled you if you misbehaved.

Times sure have changed it seems for the worst.

originally posted by: Bramble Iceshimmer
When I was in school long ago we recited the pledge, teacher read a short passage from the bible, took attendance and read any announcements.

The teacher still paddled you if you misbehaved.

Times sure have changed it seems for the worst.

Yeah, the brain washing level has fallen in some places.

Windfern High School is a public secondary school located in unincorporated Harris County, Texas, United States. Windfern High School, often referred to as The Lighthouse, is a campus of choice in the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District

www.google.com...

Sure sounds like a public school to me...

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Gothmog

Or a yung un that said no to indoctrination.

Why are kids forced to stand and pledge allegiance to something they most likely don't understand? That's right, indoctrination. Get them while they're young.

I expected no more of a reply....
Indoctrination ?
Contrary to your popular belief , all is not indoctrination in the US
Sounds like , possibly , you are the one that is indoctrinated heavily in anti-US sentiment...
Kimmie style ?

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

How could you possibly see two sides to this?! I went to high school in a very very conservative town. I never once stood for the pledge and teachers (with Skoal imprints on their back pockets, no less) would just smile back if I smiled to them, not once telling me that I have to stand.

The faculty responsible for suspending her are the only people in this story bringing politics into the school. This isn't North Korea.

Based on Texas education code

Looks like standing is required. With a note, reciting is not mandatory.

Texas Education Code - EDUC § 25.082. School Day;  Pledges of Allegiance;  Minute of Silence

(a) A school day shall be at least seven hours each day, including intermissions and recesses.

(b) The board of trustees of each school district and the governing board of each open-enrollment charter school shall require students, once during each school day at each campus, to recite:

(b) The board of trustees of each school district and the governing board of each open-enrollment charter school shall require students, once during each school day at each campus, to recite:

(1) the pledge of allegiance to the United States flag in accordance with 4 U.S.C. Section 4 ;  and

(2) the pledge of allegiance to the state flag in accordance with Subchapter C, Chapter 3100, Government Code.

(c) On written request from a student's parent or guardian, a school district or open-enrollment charter school shall excuse the student from reciting a pledge of allegiance under Subsection (b).

codes.findlaw.com...

4 U.S.C. § 4 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 4. Flag and Seal, Seat of Government, and the States
§ 4. Pledge of allegiance to the flag;  manner of delivery

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag:  “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”, should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.  Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.  Members of the Armed Forces not in uniform and veterans may render the military salute in the manner provided for persons in uniform.

codes.findlaw.com...