3,200-Year-Old Stone Inscription Tells of Trojan Prince, Sea People

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: BlissSeeker
a reply to: audubon

One step further; perhaps these advanced civilizations left because of the rising sea and they knew of the coming inundation. Myriad cities have been found in the seas worldwide.

If there are "myriad" cities inundated by sea level rise, maybe you could name a few?

As far as I know, there isn't even one.

Harte

Heracleion - but that was caused by an earthquake and was far to recent - and in historic times

en.wikipedia.org...

also

www.newscientist.com...

But yeah no 'myriad'.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: BlissSeeker
a reply to: audubon

One step further; perhaps these advanced civilizations left because of the rising sea and they knew of the coming inundation. Myriad cities have been found in the seas worldwide.

If there are "myriad" cities inundated by sea level rise, maybe you could name a few?

As far as I know, there isn't even one.

Harte

Heracleion - but that was caused by an earthquake and was far to recent - and in historic times

en.wikipedia.org...

also

www.newscientist.com...

But yeah no 'myriad'.

One of many that can't be chalked up to sea level rise.

Harte

Ahura Mazda?

Not that I know anything just curious

originally posted by: abeverage
Ahura Mazda?

Not that I know anything just curious

Probably too old for Zoroastrianism.
More likely a Hittite version of the winged disk popular in Egypt and Mesopotamia.

Can't zoom in enough to rule it out though.
But it would be a news item in the article because Ahura Mazda didn't appear until several hundred years after this thing was made.

Harte

originally posted by: audubon

originally posted by: strongfp
I think what it goes to show is that the sea peoples weren't any specific group, but a number of different cultures and what not just traveling around looking for a new more sustainable place to settle.

I've heard that proposition before, and it just doesn't work for me (YMMV). The Sea People (going from memory here) never settled anywhere, they arrived out of the blue, destroyed everything, and then buggered off into obscurity again. They seem more like suntanned Vikings than anything else.

And that's the other thing: the Sea People clearly had a pretty advanced society already, capable of building troop-transporting ships, and training soldiers (not to mention arming them). I find it hard to believe that several organised warlike nations decided that it was more worthwhile teaming up to plunder lesser nations than plundering each other, unless they were just doing it for practice!

This sounds a lot like the Visigoth invasion of Rome.

Perhaps mercenaries from Barbaric tribes from Western Europe had been serving in the armies of these more advanced nations for some time, bringing back stories of the wealth to be had (and a list of good targets.)

Then a chieftan rises to power who is capable of uniting them in mass. They already have the skills, and access to all the military technologies of the advanced nations due to their contact with them. (The boat building part sounds a lot like Viking longboats - something that could be achieved at the community level. )

If it is this, then I guess it was just a classic case of underestimating the barbarian hordes. Not realizing that they are smarter than they seem, just because they live a more rural and tribal lifestyle.

The history wasn't well kept because it was such an embarassment.

a reply to: MamaJ

“They came from the sea in their war ships and none could stand against them." This description is typical of Egyptian references to these mysterious invaders.




Sounds Similar to the Norse Vikings , but way before their Time . Navel Mobility , and Sophisticated Battle Tactics is Older than We Think ?

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: MamaJ

“They came from the sea in their war ships and none could stand against them." This description is typical of Egyptian references to these mysterious invaders.




Sounds Similar to the Norse Vikings , but way before their Time . Navel Mobility , and Sophisticated Battle Tactics is Older than We Think ?

Doubtful. They were utterly defeated by Ramesses III. The Egyptians were "sophisticated" enough in battle to do them in.

Harte

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit



Sounds Similar to the Norse Vikings , but way before their Time . Navel Mobility , and Sophisticated Battle Tactics is Older than We Think ?

It raises a good point. The Viking longship seems to be wholly an invention of the Vikings. Not something they copied from other more advanced societies.

The earliest viking boat find is about 300 BC, although it was much smaller and had small carrying capacity. --- And of course there is no guarantee this was the height of their technology at the time. Just the only example that has been found.

en.wikipedia.org...

So there is no way to know if it could have been vikings. Or maybe some other, fairly similar culture that no longer exists?. If it was Vikings, then they were very far from home.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: MamaJ

“They came from the sea in their war ships and none could stand against them." This description is typical of Egyptian references to these mysterious invaders.

Actually, this idea comes from Josephus, who is delivering it third or fourth hand. There is little archaeological evidence of such a conflict.

Sounds Similar to the Norse Vikings , but way before their Time . Navel Mobility , and Sophisticated Battle Tactics is Older than We Think ?

Sophisticated battle tactics were developed during the rise of the first great superpowers, about the time of the New Kingdom in Egypt. Ancient Greeks developed a lot of tactics involving triremes, if you will recall.

a reply to: Hanslune

Dwaraka comes to mind, also, Bimini Road indicates a civilization in the Atlantic. There's also a sunken city off the coast of south India.

Bimini: www.youtube.com...

Dwaraka: www.thehindu.com...

Search engines can help from here

originally posted by: BlissSeeker
a reply to: Hanslune

Dwaraka comes to mind, also, Bimini Road indicates a civilization in the Atlantic. There's also a sunken city off the coast of south India.

Bimini: www.youtube.com...

Dwaraka: www.thehindu.com...

Search engines can help from here

Read those search results and see that Dwarka sank. It was not inundated by sea level rise.
Plus, Why is there no trace of anything as ancient as the "Bimini Road" is claimed to be on the island of Bimini?
Do you think they just built a wharf and nothing else?

Lastly, isn't this the thread where I said that India is sinking right now, on both coasts?

Note, the original claim is that there are myriad cities on the ocean floor that were inundated by sea level rise. That rules out sinking.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: BlissSeeker
a reply to: audubon

One step further; perhaps these advanced civilizations left because of the rising sea and they knew of the coming inundation. Myriad cities have been found in the seas worldwide.

If there are "myriad" cities inundated by sea level rise, maybe you could name a few?

As far as I know, there isn't even one.

Harte

Ok, for a starting point how about these few:

Atil / Khamlij
Phanegoria
Pavlopetri
Pheia
Neapolis
Simena
Olous
Baiae

I will admit that some of these were more tectonic in nature - but they still ended up under water!

If we include medieval times, there are literally hundreds of towns and settlements and that is in Europe alone (all documented at the time of disaster, almost exclusively by Monks).

Heck, the Bay of Naples alone has 4 (or more) settlements under water. And if you check some of the discoveries coming out of Bulgaria at the moment, they are discovering settlements all over their coast under the Black Sea - which actually makes sense given the Roman and Greek sources for cities in the area (that we now cannot find).

a reply to: MamaJ

Didnt the community before the greeks in the same area fight the sea people in some devastating war
from metamorphoses

a reply to: Flavian

"Myriad," due to "sea level rise."
I believe the association was with the melting coming out of the Ice Age.
Got any of those?

Harte

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: MamaJ

Didnt the community before the greeks in the same area fight the sea people in some devastating war
from metamorphoses

community before the greeks that would be the Minoans

no they did not fight them, they employed the sea people, and the greeks were counted as sea people, the Denyen(danoi) and the ekwesh(acheans), along with the peleset(philistines) who were greek/cannanite, the sherdan( sardinians), teresh(tuscans) sekelesh(scicilians)

a reply to: punkinworks10

isnt there a story written in Ovid's metamorphoses about the age before greece where the peoples fought a long enduring war against the sea people ?

or am I getting confused with Herod's account of some other region
Oh I wish I could remember where Id read that !

Im sure there was written in the time before the greek city state of athens , there was a people who fought a long war against the sea people in the greek region and the gods had to smite them and so created a flood to kill them all off

a reply to: sapien82

I remembered historian Michael Woods, linking the legend of Troy to the event, that put the Mycenaeans in charge if my memory is not faulty.

originally posted by: Harte
a reply to: Flavian

"Myriad," due to "sea level rise."
I believe the association was with the melting coming out of the Ice Age.
Got any of those?

Harte

Sea level rise has been on going for thousands of years so in terms of lost settlements and towns / villages (less so cities) there are literally hundreds.

In terms of communities lost to the sea (non tectonic), as a simple example, look at the Grote Mandrenke on 16th January 1362. Anywhere between 25'000 and 100'000 dead in Northern Europe with entire towns and cities washed away. It even created the de Zuider Zee in the Netherlands (permanent inland sea).

a reply to: Harte

The Black Sea also still very much interests me. The latest results of the Black Sea Archeological Project (Black Sea MAP) show there was no sudden deluge at the end of the last ice age, instead it was gradual melting between 16'000 - 10'000 years ago (under water sand dunes, micro organisms, shorelines, etc used for dating). However, it does confirm that at the start of this melting, Bulgaria's coastline was 60km further to the east.

That is 60km depth of land (not length) lost to the sea. And that is just the western Black Sea. When you consider Colchis (eastern Black Sea), we do not even know where Phasis (the capital) was located - although that particular lost city appears to be far more to do with marshland and shifting river tributaries than sea level rise (Phasis located between 2 tributaries).

Some of the claims from the Black Sea region are certainly fanciful but there is definitely city ruins off shore at Sinope (Russian Crimea). Further out from Sinope (12 miles off shore) are the megalithic ruins found by Cameron's (Titanic discovery) son. They are 311 feet below the surface and date to roughly 7600 BCE.

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: Harte
a reply to: Flavian

"Myriad," due to "sea level rise."
I believe the association was with the melting coming out of the Ice Age.
Got any of those?

Harte

Sea level rise has been on going for thousands of years so in terms of lost settlements and towns / villages (less so cities) there are literally hundreds.

In terms of communities lost to the sea (non tectonic), as a simple example, look at the Grote Mandrenke on 16th January 1362. Anywhere between 25'000 and 100'000 dead in Northern Europe with entire towns and cities washed away. It even created the de Zuider Zee in the Netherlands (permanent inland sea).

Yeah, there's lots of things under the sea.

The post that started the subject bears repeating:

originally posted by: BlissSeeker
a reply to: audubon

One step further; perhaps these advanced civilizations left because of the rising sea and they knew of the coming inundation. Myriad cities have been found in the seas worldwide. And then we have the Anasazi and inhabitants of Teotihuacan and Machu Picchu, who as you mentioned, bugged out w/o a trace.

Are people always forced to move because of cataclysmic earth events based on a seasonal cycle much greater than the human year?

That post was in response to one about the Bronze Age collapse.
There are not myriad cities that have been found in the seas world wide (though, no doubt there are many settlements and villages and some cities under water.)
There aren't any that are related to any cataclysm that resulted in the Bronze Age collapse.

This is why I asked BlissSeeker for a list.

Still haven't heard back.

Harte