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Why didn't mass surveillance detect the Vegas shooter plot?

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posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:57 PM
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More of an idea post, rather than a research post... I could add supporting links, but will skip it until the discussion requires them.

I'll throw it out there, why didn't mass surveillance detect the Vegas shooter plot?

Isn't the mega-surveillance system geared toward this kind of scenario?

Fitting a person and a pattern together....

A genuine gun nut.

Weird hotel bookings adjacent to other outdoor events. A similar plot thwarted in NYC has been revealed, with lots of emails between the conspirators.

Large wire transfers.

Paddock's chatter and reference to the plot.

New gun purchase on the way to Vegas with a hotel reservation....huh?

Also, his family history with his father a serious criminal, why not?

Shouldn't this be a perfect storm for the surveillance state? I'm no expert, but....

Are there more examples?

ANTIFA links..?
edit on 6-10-2017 by FlyingFox because: f




posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 12:09 AM
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I don't think the surveillance state is where you think it is at, they don't monitor our internet searches and private information like Facebook messages and phone calls in real time, and people against gun control won't allow red flags to pop up for all of the weapons he purchased. The large wire transfers were monitored, however, they are considered normal for high-rollers.



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 12:10 AM
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a reply to: FlyingFox

Ohh...
Didn't order pumpkin spice latte...
Didn't Facebook much.
Twitter nope..
Criminal past... nope.

Seems to me the guy didn't take to social media much.
The whole low profile thing.

So no super computer could profile him🙄

Edit: for affect:

edit on 7-10-2017 by Bigburgh because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 12:25 AM
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I'm saying that current predictive methods could indeed detect this. Better programming might help, but it is possible with AI.

Also, drawing attention to the fact that we submit to a system that failed to protect us.

Therein lies the contradiction.
edit on 7-10-2017 by FlyingFox because: freedom



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 12:30 AM
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a reply to: FlyingFox


I'll throw it out there, why didn't mass surveillance detect the Vegas shooter plot? Isn't the mega-surveillance system geared toward this kind of scenario?

Exactly and could be why he kept elusive, maybe knowing this and all, ex Gov employee,etc. He survailed hotel security probably knowing they had no cameras in the hall. Discussed in the main thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Fitting a person and a pattern together.... A genuine gun nut.

Consider the situation, not wringing any alarm bells perhaps, not a major enough buyer, was a known customer, more.


Weird hotel bookings adjacent to other outdoor events. A similar plot thwarted in NYC has been revealed, with lots of emails between the conspirators.

Any official note on "with lots of emails between the conspirators."?


Large wire transfers.
Common for his companion's family to recive?


Paddock's chatter and reference to the plot.

What chatter? No known participation and in person wasn't noted as very social. Didn't discuss anything according to companion.
However, I heard hard drives are being investigated. Or is that other electronics?
Officials confirms of interest in the mystery woman(said prostitute) with him before the massacre.




New gun purchase on the way to Vegas with a hotel reservation....huh?

The shop owners knew him didn't suspect anything wrong.
edit on 7-10-2017 by dreamingawake because: shop and quote



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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$750 BILLION invested in the Intelligence complex since 2007, and we can't even zap the #1 terrorist...Kim Jong. That one dictator can cause more deaths of Americans in a war, than 1,000 Paddocks.



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 01:06 AM
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"New gun purchase on the way to Vegas with a hotel reservation....huh?

The shop owners knew him didn't suspect anything wrong."

That's what I mean, not just the gun shop owners intuition, but the odd combination of having a hotel room booked immediately afterwards. AI could pick up on this, assuming the gun transaction was online. In reality, this one snippet could raise a red flag if "The System" was geared towards it.

I'm not sure if people understand Strong AI and it's predictive abilities.


edit on 7-10-2017 by FlyingFox because: freedom



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 01:09 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

I used to work for Digital Equipment Corp.

We were ahead of our time in many ways, one of them was building security.

We used 'DANNY'.

6'4" father of three who could sat near reception, Danny knew everyone who worked there, smiled at most, helped you get in if your"d forgotten your badge, and kept you out if you had no business being inside. He was good at reading 'signals'.

I wonder what Danny would have made of a single man checking, with 10 suitcases, who didn't come out of his room for two days, but did erect a camera to see who was coming down the corridor on the third day?

Maybe the end of the 'Do not Disturb' sign as we know it?



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 01:16 AM
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a reply to: FlyingFox

My opinion is mass surveillance is there so they have something on you if they need it, not to prevent anything..



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 01:25 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

Not mention the possibility of him getting illegal weapons which are hard to trace.
edit on 10/7/2017 by starwarsisreal because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 01:26 AM
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a reply to: FlyingFox

I agree with DarkBake and believe a lot of the NSA apparatus is fundamentally a 'wayback machine.' It's hoovering up massive amounts of personal data and requires programmes and operators to zero in on certain patterns and specific individuals. There will probably be lots of hindsight data and nothing so alarming as to have triggered the attention of the NSA in the first place.

There has always been a projection of power from Intel agencies and media (or through media) that far exceeds the reality; it's as old as Sun Tzu's line, 'All warfare is based on deception.'



I'm saying that current predictive methods could indeed detect this.


In hindsight, maybe. Even in our little corner of the world, how many members have been searching weapons, ammo, mass-shootings, terrorist groups, domestic terrorism and so on? Enough to attract personal attention through the PRISM surveillance machine? Probably not or else they'd be overwhelmed by 'persons of interest' every time a mass-shooting occurs or terrorist attack happens. Let's face it one or the other happens fortnightly this year.



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 02:13 AM
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There are cameras all over Las Vegas. There is surveillance footage, the FEDs just confiscated it all. We will never see it.



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 02:22 AM
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a reply to: FlyingFox




I'm saying that current predictive methods could indeed detect this. Better programming might help, but it is possible with AI.


The question is who controls the mass surveillance....



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 05:09 AM
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Firstly, he wasn't elusive at all during his stay at the Mandalay, which is why to my mind it makes it all the more strange. He was seen out and about the town walking with another woman, he ordered room service at least once, he was playing the machines for 8hrs solid the night prior to the shooting, he put in 2 complaints regarding loud music from the room below the night before too, he purchased guns legally from dealers not black market where he knew there would be records etc, he booked the hotel room in his own name a hotel where he was well known and a regular,hardly the actions of a man wanting to remain under the radar and carry out a mass murder with the hope of escaping.

According to his brother, none of them had seen the father since Paddock was 8yrs old and although the father was allegedly diagnose as a psychopath this was during the 1960's when psychology wasn't exactly a known science and diagnosis' were often very wrong

There is nothing unusual with a high roller who regularly stays for weeks at a time in Hotels, bringing large amounts of luggage with them.

So what possible red flags could have been raised regarding an old millionaire regular at the hotel with lots of luggage? A lifestyle gambler who travelled frequently and stayed in many hotels?



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 06:18 AM
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originally posted by: Doxanoxa
a reply to: carewemust

I used to work for Digital Equipment Corp.

We were ahead of our time in many ways, one of them was building security.

We used 'DANNY'.

6'4" father of three who could sat near reception, Danny knew everyone who worked there, smiled at most, helped you get in if your"d forgotten your badge, and kept you out if you had no business being inside. He was good at reading 'signals'.

I wonder what Danny would have made of a single man checking, with 10 suitcases, who didn't come out of his room for two days, but did erect a camera to see who was coming down the corridor on the third day?

Maybe the end of the 'Do not Disturb' sign as we know it?


Mandalay Bay has 3309 guest rooms. There is no way to keep detailed track of every guest that checks in. Remember you have hotel guests and street patrons wondering around 24/7. It would be really hard to distinguish between the two. The hotel would be more likely to remember and special cater to their high rollers, but no the average joe. I also don't think he checked in with all 10 suite cases at once. I think I remember hearing he brought in a few at a time over many days. Even if he brought them all at once, he had a suite with an ajoining room. I'm sure between both rooms it could easily slept 4 - 8 people. For all the hotel knows he could have guests staying with him. I work at a hotel and I check people in all the time who are only staying 1 night and they come in pushing a luggage cart piled to the top with all kinds of crap. Its not as unusual as everyone seems to think it is.



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: FlyingFox

Because he was not a suspect. In order for mass surveillance to be of any use, there needs to be a person of interest. His background didn't point to him being a POI. Therefore mass surveillance is of no use.

On the other hand, if there is a known agent in a crowd and that crowd is being surveilled with intent, and facial recognition software at the ready, that POI is rather easily found.

ETA: Surveillance is more used for evidence after the fact than for prevention. Just sayin...
edit on 7-10-2017 by kelbtalfenek because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: FlyingFox
I'm saying that current predictive methods could indeed detect this. Better programming might help, but it is possible with AI.

Also, drawing attention to the fact that we submit to a system that failed to protect us.

Therein lies the contradiction.
Interesting, so you want more surveillance programming so that all people will
Be continually scrutinized and analyzed by algorithms .... did you ever see Minority Report???



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: Bigburgh
a reply to: FlyingFox

Ohh...
Didn't order pumpkin spice latte...
Didn't Facebook much.
Twitter nope..
Criminal past... nope.

Seems to me the guy didn't take to social media much.
The whole low profile thing.

So no super computer could profile him🙄

Edit: for affect:

They were able to figure out that he left in his car from the hotel parking and that while he was gone, some used a room keycard to enter the room. They fivured it out after the fact, but a lot of things can be tracked even if you are not on social media.
He had cell phones that were not burner phones and when you are being comped at a casino, they are keeping track of your spending. I have to think that he had credit cards, and he was wiring money to acvounts in the Philippines.
They can also track most newer cars via GPS, even if you opt out if activating it.
They had to have to known about his firearms purchases.



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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Watch the documentary "A Good American" for part of the answer.



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 03:50 PM
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Mass surveillance only works using hindsight for some situations. a reply to: FlyingFox




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