Illuminati Defector "Tells All"

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posted on Jul, 16 2003 @ 11:28 PM
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I don't think its learned helplessness, that is there the person refuses to do anything to change their circumstances even though its in their power. It would result in pasivity rather than action.

This is more classical conditioning, with a punishment structure built in instead of a reward structure. Eventually the punishment is removed as the person learns to obey for the reward of praise.


Hey Netchicken, sorry for not getting back to this issue sooner!!! Ok. Once you've conditioned passivity (the more traumatic, the better-- LH would fit that very well), you have basically re-set the organism's behavioral "baseline rate of responding": they simply stop refusing or doing anything. That's where I think the traumatic condition ends.

You can easily then condition anything you want them to emit (emotionally & behaviorally), with no resistance-- they've already unlearned resistance.

This advanced "higher order" conditioning process, in order to be most effective, must occur over a long period of time and with multiple trials. I agree with you, the Classical Conditioning paradigm that you describe (quite well!) would suit such a need.

Time is not the greatest requirement, because the person's memory, emotions, and environment are all being controlled by that point.

I think my point regarding Learned Helplessness was that it is probably the best (i.e. fastest & more effective) way to administer the initial traumatic reaction. It is by far not the only element to the person's conditioning process.

For one person to come up with this extremely detailed defector's story, they would need to have a facility with behavioral conditioning principles and some experience with trauma psychology. Either that, or this description is actually the truth
That's where I'm at right now with it.


[Edited on 17-7-2003 by MKULTRA]




posted on Jul, 17 2003 @ 01:57 PM
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I think this is just BS.

Satanists worshiping astarte, osiris and isis?
Satanists installing christian leaders in the government?

Basically what this article is is a kind of trashcan where you can put everything the average christian (still the majority) hates, nazism, satanism, occult, ancient gods, torture, pedophily, in order to get attention for whatever purpose this woman seeks.

Amazing how she could pack Eminem, Britney Spears (Hate propaganda in britney's lyrics?!), Satanism, Pornography, Walt Disney
(maybe Mickey Mouse is the Illuminati mascot?!) and every paranoya generator in the world into one single text, would be brilliant if only should would put something similar to sense within it.



posted on Jul, 25 2003 @ 06:17 AM
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From link

A woman who was raised in the Illuminati cult describes a powerful secret organization comprising 1% of the U.S. population that has infiltrated all social institutions and is covertly preparing a military takeover.

1% of US population - which is about 280,000,000 so that makes 2,800,000 americans members.

That's an awful lot of people keeping a secret don't you think and is hardly highly selective.



posted on Jul, 26 2003 @ 12:53 PM
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Hmmnnn, it was only a matter of time before someone tried to connect MORMONS with the whole lets take over the world with one government conspiracy.
I'm a mormon and in the military, have a standing invitiation to join FREEMASONRY if I wished to, does that make me a potential candidate to become an ILLUMINIST???



posted on Jul, 27 2003 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Freeman
Suppose illuminati work for Satan.

Then why God doesn't stop them?

Do you know how much pain and torture is going on on this planet at ANY GIVEN MOMENT? And it has been going on for a really long time.

The question is why God allows that to happen?

Supposedly they will be stopped after 2012 when most of life has been destroyed, but why not before?


Come on people, why are you still believing in dieties? God? The Devil? BS! There's is no great entities controling the universe. We're not a board game for theses entities. Of course the Illuminati are DAWM real, and f*cking evil. The highest leaders of them probaly knows that their no Devil at all, althought they make lower people worship it, but that's just cuz they are plain evil and don't know how to do it differently.

We're just life, and life (or Chi) is just what is holding everything together. I don't care if we evolved from bacteria or if the aliens seeded us.

There's no great being who will all save us all. We have to save us our self or be assimilated.



posted on Jul, 27 2003 @ 02:52 PM
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Yep, being a mormon and in the military means that your gullibility quotent is very high and are suseptable to taking orders without complaint or questioning.

You would make an excelent foot soldier for the Illuminati.


Originally posted by AgentBlueBook
I'm a mormon and in the military, have a standing invitiation to join FREEMASONRY if I wished to, does that make me a potential candidate to become an ILLUMINIST???



posted on Jul, 30 2003 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
For those interested, this article may get your heart to skip a bit. I won't say I was surprised but some of the info given by the 'said defector' was ummm, quite eye opening.


My heart skipped a beat too. I'm astonished that:

1) Someone this disturbed can function in society and is responsible for the care of children. Although, I only have the authors word on that.

2) That this person gets as much attention as they do, that there seems to ba a huge audience willing to suspend all critical thinking and eat this stuff up.

3) That in these public forums populated by seemingly intellegent people, that nobody suggested the most simple explanation: that the woman "Svali" is deeply disturbed and delusional.


Originally posted by MKULTRA
For one person to come up with this extremely detailed defector's story, they would need to have a facility with behavioral conditioning principles and some experience with trauma psychology. Either that, or this description is actually the truth That's where I'm at right now with it.


A large amount of detail is not evidence that the story is true. People with paranoid delusions usually make their fantasies detailed and consistant, they tend to be very intellegent and spend a lot of time on it.



posted on Jul, 30 2003 @ 06:10 PM
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3) Ah Mycroft, I did



posted on Jul, 30 2003 @ 06:32 PM
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I don't see anything that couldn't be fabricated out of existing research/ideas on the Illuminati.

Moreover, I've always had one big problem with the whole Cabal/Illuminati takeover idea....

Why take over the world, if you already control it (as this is alleged)? Why rule a world of ashes, when you already rule a world of riches? It just doesn't make sense...



posted on Jul, 30 2003 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
I don't see anything that couldn't be fabricated out of existing research/ideas on the Illuminati.

Moreover, I've always had one big problem with the whole Cabal/Illuminati takeover idea....

Why take over the world, if you already control it (as this is alleged)? Why rule a world of ashes, when you already rule a world of riches? It just doesn't make sense...


A very good question.

Keep in mind, the only reason the Cabal has control is because they are able to keep the population snowed as to the truth about "the man behind the curtain". Thier greatest fear is an armed uprising of the general population.

To this point the Cabal has had control over the general public to the greatest extent possible without tipping off the public and risking such an uprising. However, that is about to change with the advent of new psychotronic technology, such as we have been tracking from HAARP.



posted on Jul, 31 2003 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
3) Ah Mycroft, I did


You're right, Netchicken. I failed to give credit where credit is due. You and others have expressed scepticism, but even in doing so this writer gets too much credit.


Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
Pretty intersenting, a bit disturbed, but there is truth enough on that, anyway do not forget those are the smarter people on earth, i do not think they will leave somebody from them alive, after this, i think is a bit disinfo as well, but it says a lot of logical stuff that i cant deny.
Keep up the good work mate!


What's logical about it? Svali would have us believe that the Illuminati, a super-elite organization that secretly rules the world has created a system where the "elite" suffer all kinds of abuse.

C'mon! People that make rules make rules that favor themselves. That's human nature. We're supposed to believe that they purposfully set up a system where their own kids get tortured and sold into child porn and prostitution just for money? Does that make any sense?

On top of that, the Illuminati who's members include Rockefellers and Rosthchilds is so hard up for money they need to put their own children into prostitution? Tell me they're proffiting from prostitution, I can believe that, but being the prostitutes themselves? Absurd.


Originally posted by MKULTRA

Everything that she said can pretty much be supported by David Icke's writings. The facts as both people present them are consistent.


Yeah, but consistent of what?


Originally posted by MKULTRA

Assassin Training
Svali: "Here is how it is done (how it was done to me):

[1] When the child is 2 years old, place them in a metal cage with electrodes attached. Shock the child severely.

[2] Take the child out, and place a kitten in its hands. Tell the child to wring the kitten's neck. The child will cry and refuse...

...This torture scheme is capitalizing on something that is known in psychological literature as a general principle of conditioning theory: Learned Helplessness.



Yeah, you can really mess someone up this way, but can you produce a world leader? A trusted conspirator? Are you serously suggesting the people that secretly rule our lives have been conditioned to "learned helplessness"?!

These techniques will not produce a world leader, or even a reliable foot soldier. It will produce a sociopath that will have a hard time completing high school and staying out of jail or a mental hospital.


Originally posted by dragonrider

A very good question.

Keep in mind, the only reason the Cabal has control is because they are able to keep the population snowed as to the truth about "the man behind the curtain". Thier greatest fear is an armed uprising of the general population.


If they're so secret, how is it that you know what their greatest fear is?


Originally posted by dragonriderTo this point the Cabal has had control over the general public to the greatest extent possible without tipping off the public and risking such an uprising. However, that is about to change with the advent of new psychotronic technology, such as we have been tracking from HAARP.


HAARP? Is that this HAARP?

www.haarp.alaska.edu...



posted on Jul, 31 2003 @ 12:51 AM
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Actually HAARP would be this...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The U of Alaska web site is where they turned the pilot station over to a university to give it legitimacy as a "research project".

THIS is the REAL HAARP..

Dr. Kanavy noted the "large amount of data, both animal experimental and human clinical, to support the existence of chronic, non-thermal effects." These effects include behavioral aberrations, neural network perturbations, fetal (embryonic) tissue damage (inducing birth defects), cataractogenesis (cataracts), altered blood chemistry, metabolic changes and suppression of the endocrine and immune systems. There were also cases of sudden and unexplained mutations in frogs and wildlife in the radiation paths of ELF installations. It was only a matter of time before the public outcry would prohibit ELF transmitters.

www.viewzone.com...

There's been speculation about electromagnetic pulse weapons being used to jam communications in Kosovo since March 24. This has included theories about pulsing both hemispheres (east and west) simultaneously. If this is true, it is not showing up in earthquake patterns. The HAARP testing, however, affected the pattern immediately.

In addition to a volcanic eruption in India preceding the 6.8 quake, Mt Cameroon in Africa erupted March 29. I am certain other volcanic eruptions will follow but the information comes in slowly. The Taal volcano in Indonesia is high on the "most likely to erupt" list, along with Mts Popo and Vulcan del Fuego in Mexico.

MARCH 28 - THE DAY AFTER HAARP
HIGH-FREQUENCY ACTIVE AURORAL RESEARCH PROJECT (HAARP)
Testing On March 26 & 27

Following is a spread of earthquakes greater-than-4 magnitude for the day after HAARP testing. It is scattered from the expected pattern with a number of quakes in a circle of northern latitudes, between 50N and 85N. The original HAARP installation is in Alaska within this band. Generally, I find patterns in earthquakes that correspond with predictions made with the TimeStar grid.

www.seizethemagic.com...

Enter HAARP. The assumed notion that the project known as HAARP (High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Project) is descended from Tesla's work, is something of an absurdity with reference to Tesla's previous affirmation. Since the HAARP Project's exclusive purpose relies on the existence and function of the ionosphere, and has nothing to do with the grounded circuits of Tesla it is clearly NOT Tesla technology. This really should have been quite obvious to any researcher or author if they had simply read any of Tesla's work concerning his wireless even without the bold statements of this 1919 article, but, alas, due the popularity of Tesla, and the recently published books and videos about HAARP, this bogus association between Tesla and HAARP has become "matter of fact" to the misled and uninformed.

Why would these authors writing about the HAARP Project make such gross mistakes mistakes which destroy the credibility of any other statements they have made concerning the technology? One might suggest that because these people are journalists and movie makers, and not radio technicians or electrical engineers, that we are supposed to forgive their glaring errors. But a good journalist is expected to present the truth as clearly and as disinterested as is possible. And, a good (ethical) journalist would not overlook the facts, in favor of a sensational presentation. Most of the associations today concerning Tesla and sinister military technologies come from later statements made by Tesla long after his direct involvement in experiment with wireless. Speculations and predictions by Tesla such as microwaves, TV, beam ray technologies (the Tesla Death Ray), cosmic-ray motors, interplanetary communications, and wave-interference devices (the "Tesla Howitzer" and the "Tesla Shield") have been given authority over the actual physical experiments by Tesla. Most of these conjectures were revealed by Tesla in his aging years at "birthday press conferences" as he was shut out by the daily media sometime after 1920. But, these are the statements that so capture the attentions of readers and viewers, and are the ones which the so-called "underground media" gleefully disseminate. Gloom and Doom is the status quo here, and while the truth may be stranger than fiction, it is apparently quite boring.

www.borderlands.com...

How do I know about the Cabal? I do my homework, thats how.



posted on Aug, 1 2003 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by dragonriderTo this point the Cabal has had control over the general public to the greatest extent possible without tipping off the public and risking such an uprising. However, that is about to change with the advent of new psychotronic technology, such as we have been tracking from HAARP.



When you say "psychotronic technology" do you mean HAARP is a mind control device? Or do you just mean it has an effect on minds?

Either way, if that's a concern to you, you might find the following website useful:

zapatopi.net...

And it's also a secret military weapon capable of bouncing death beams off the ionosphere, jamming enemy communications, and it's responsible for earthquakes and volcanic eruptions too?

I'm a little sceptical. I find it hard to believe that if it did all that, that the military would turn it over to a university. Even if it is just a pilot model.



posted on Aug, 1 2003 @ 08:38 AM
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When you say "psychotronic technology" do you mean HAARP is a mind control device? Or do you just mean it has an effect on minds?

And it's also a secret military weapon capable of bouncing death beams off the ionosphere, jamming enemy communications, and it's responsible for earthquakes and volcanic eruptions too?

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Myself and numerous others have been tracking these exact affects of HAARP for about 4 months now. Please review this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As we are about the only group online to complete this long of a study on HAARP and associated affects.


I find it hard to believe that if it did all that, that the military would turn it over to a university. Even if it is just a pilot model.

Its called disinformation and obfuscation. You give a small pilot project, possibly even something totally different from the main project, with its wings clipped so it cannot do what the main project is designed to do, and put it forth into the public light. People stop by and see that, and think that there is no danger... meanwhile at the other 4 HAARP facilities in the continental US, they are proceeding as normal.

Besides, my information does not just come from the web. I am an environmental geologist, working for the government, in close contact with the military environmental divisions. Several contacts have been to HAARP facilities for environmental projects, and they have shared that what is put forth to the public is in fact a cover story, and HAARP is FAR more dangerous than what you see on the U of Alaska website.



posted on Aug, 1 2003 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by dragonrider

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Myself and numerous others have been tracking these exact affects of HAARP for about 4 months now. Please review this thread


I looked at the thread, though I confess I didn't read all 43 pages of it. It looks as though your informal study has been trying to demonstrate a positive correlation between HAARP activity and seismic activity. It's interesting, if you can prove it, but it's still a far cry from death beams and mind control.

Your contacts that told you what it put forth to the public is just a cover story, did they have anything to say as for what the real purposes actually are?



posted on Aug, 1 2003 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Mycroft

Originally posted by dragonrider

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Myself and numerous others have been tracking these exact affects of HAARP for about 4 months now. Please review this thread


I looked at the thread, though I confess I didn't read all 43 pages of it. It looks as though your informal study has been trying to demonstrate a positive correlation between HAARP activity and seismic activity. It's interesting, if you can prove it, but it's still a far cry from death beams and mind control.

Your contacts that told you what it put forth to the public is just a cover story, did they have anything to say as for what the real purposes actually are?



Remain skeptical, but at least take the time to read the information provided before you disregard a theory.

Mind control is covered in the seismic thread, as is scalar weaponry.

-B.



posted on Aug, 1 2003 @ 05:39 PM
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Mind Control would be much harder than just zapping someone with a laser beam.

Obviously even strong magnetic feilds have little more effects than the hallucinations we most commonly refer to as "haunts" and "ghosts"...

HARRP's best chances at possibly controlling your mind would be with Infra-sound, but that is apparently not the trick either, as quigon healers have used Infrasound for millenia, and have yet to be able to control minds.

Your mind is yes, a system of electricity and chemicals, but obviously our will is not...or we'd all be different in a much more broad way, because none of our brains function remotely the same in terms of "personality" and the like.

And people would not be able to over-come chemical addictions, which while hard, is possible.

And the like.

And everytime you were around a source of energy, you'd flip out. There is no strong magnetic sheild in your head.

So Harrp's options for mind control capabilities is limiting by the second.

It's obviously not chemical...what does it do shoot you with dopamine?

However, in the instance of Weather, I'd say Harrp might be able to influence that.



posted on Aug, 1 2003 @ 06:18 PM
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Mycroft, please read all the links I posted to you. There is a mountain of information there. Also, here are a few more...

As we drove to her house after dinner, I began the electromagnetic study. I first tuned in to an 1080-MHz signal that I had been studying for a month. I noticed that when I got close to her car, the signal would appear. When she got well ahead of us, the signal would disappear. It was as if the transmitter for that signal was in her car. I knew this was not the case, because I'd been picking up this same signal all across the Northeast and it couldn't possibly have been transmitted from her car. There was no question that the 1080-MHz signal was being directed at Susan.

As soon as we arrived at her house, I began the electromagnetic survey at that location. I immediately found the 1080-MHz signal and also found the 435-MHz signal that routinely emanates from the vicinity of Montauk.* I also found a strong ELF (extra-low-frequency) broadcast that was as low as my equipment can pick up (about 50 to 400 kHz). I videotaped the entire display of different signals.

The Montauk signal at 435 MHz was particularly interesting because whenever I pick it up from Montauk, it is usually broken into pieces. If the pieces were put together, it would make up a signal like the one I was viewing in Maryland. As Susan moved in and out of the house, I noticed subtle changes in the scope pattern for the 435-MHz signal. I had her walk around, and wherever she would position herself, a subtle change would show up on the scope and be noticeable on the receivers as well. Next, I tuned back into the 1080-MHz signal and tried the same thing. I noticed that if she sat still in the car, the 1080-MHz signal faded out. If she moved around, it came back.

Susan then showed me a report by Dr. Peter Moscow. He is the president of the U.S. Psychotronics Association and is an excellent bioelectric magnetic researcher. He is involved with Wilhelm Reich's work and radionics, and I was already familiar with him. His report indicated that she had brain damage and had been exposed to aberrant electromagnetic fields such as ELF and VLF fields. I had definitely picked up the aberrant electromagnetic fields (the 435-MHz and the 1080-MHz signals).

www.wealth4freedom.com...

Precisely modulated microwave radiation is used to influence brain function. Human behaviour and reactions can be entirely controlled by using pulse modulated microwave EM radiation. Pulse modulated microwaves are useful as the carrier for the mind control signals as they are able to pass through the skull, which is rather resistant to low level EM.

www.bariumblues.com...

APPLICATION OF MILITARY FREQUENCY WEAPONRY

According to a 1982 Air Force review of biotechnology, ELF has a number of potential military uses, including "dealing with terrorist groups, crowd control, controlling breaches of security at military installations, and antipersonnel techniques in tactical warfare." The same report states:

"Electromagnetic systems would be used to produce mild to severe physiological disruption or perceptual dis- tortion or disorientation. They are silent, and counter- measures to them may be difficult to develop."

www.geocities.com...

The UK Government is now spending 2.5 million to fully implement a nation-wide deployment of CIA mind-control technology. The TETRA system pulses at 17.6 Hz broadcast at 400 MHz which is essentially the Pandora Project funded by the CIA in the late '60s and early '70s. Dr Ross Adey, the chief researcher on the Pandora Project has released a video to leading UK researchers which proves that not only does the TETRA system cause ELF zombification by massive release of calcium ions in the cerebral cortex and the nervous system, but the activated calcium ions also cause massive hormonal disturbances which lead to frenzied imbalances, emotional and physical states.

www.trunkerton.fsnet.co.uk...

Even more prominent among HAARP's unpublicized but thoroughly documented agendas than "mind/mood-control" and "psychological warfare" applications is that of WEATHER CONTROL.

Certain HAARP transmissions are FULLY capable of implementing MAJOR effects upon weather systems worldwide.

As was demonstrated by the great scientific genius Wilhelm Reich (SEVERELY persecuted by the United States' fascist government in the 1950s), some of the same electromagnetic frequencies and energies which impact weather conditions (termed "orgone" energy by Reich) ALSO have a dramatic effect upon emotional and psychological states of human beings (and other life forms).

HAARP has been designed and deployed ever since it's earliest days to be a "kill several birds with one stone"-type technology.

skywatch.iwarp.com...

These are just a handful of what is available regarding the potential psychotronic uses of HAARP.

In addition, there is known, documented instances of just how deadly HAARP can be even in non-intentional use: my military contacts spent over a year assigned to the HAARP project for environmental mitigation, and visited each HAARP facility in the US as well as the one in Pine Gap Australia... it seems that each HAARP facility has an odd problem with entire flocks of migratory birds (many of them endangered) falling out of the sky dead as they fly through the transmission pathway.

In addition in the 90s, a technical team was killed at the gakona facility (actually the facility further north, possible in Poker Flats) when the array was powered up to full output while the team was still on the premesis. (HAARP facilities are actually unmanned in operation, as the EM radiation will kill most all vertebrate life forms on the site. HAARP operations in Alaska are remotely controlled from a control center at Elmendorf AFB, or from DC) My contacts spent a good deal of time investigating this incident and finding a plausible justification for the deaths of these people.

FM, once again you speak of what you do not know... read the above, as well as the multitude of links already on this thread before you embarrass yourself again.



posted on Aug, 1 2003 @ 06:37 PM
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I find it pretty stupid of you Dragonrider to tell me I speak of that which I do not know, when concerning Haarp, which is something you have NO CLUE of either.

Reading a bunch of theories and purported "Uses" of haarp, does not mean you are right, or even near accurate.

Haarp probably is little more than a weather research facility studying the annomalies of the Auroras and the like.

Actual manipulation of weather paterns, and targeted weaponry using magnetics, is far beyond our real capabilities, sadly though our minds run far ahead of reality.



posted on Aug, 1 2003 @ 06:43 PM
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sadly though our minds run far ahead of reality Posted by Freemason

Occassionally, not often, but sometimes I DO believe in the concept of Freudian slip.....

FM, you obviously have not done a great deal of research on the matter, as abundant information on the subject exists. Indeed, myself and numerous others on this board have contributed an enormous amount of time to tracking and studying a constant timeline of HAARP activity and correlating it to seismic activity and other world events.

To my knowledge, this is the ONLY place on the web (at least publicly) that this kind of research is being conducted. And its being done RIGHT HERE on ATS, in plain view of everyone.

Now, if you happen to have read one or two articles specifically to start an arguement, then please post what you consider to be some research.





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