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Trump Rolls Back Obama’s Birth Control Coverage Rule

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posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Sure and I will wait for an actual rebuttal.


That was my actual rebuttal. You dealt Nietzsche and I played the hand. My argument is based on logic and traditional employer values, yours is based on feels and empathy towards the employee. That is the definition of Nietzsche's master morality versus slave morality theory.




posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: whywhynot

Lol and the hypocrisy of pro lifers when a solution is found that lowers abortions.



If you can’t afford a dollar a day to pay for birth control you can’t afford to have a baby. Have your fun on your own dime not mine. Be responsible.


Yur personal moral philosophy is irrelevant to the outcome for the entire society.

Which is 40 percent less people are having abortions and it's the lowest it has been since r v wade.
edit on 6-10-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:11 PM
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Healthcare/Health Insurance.

I want my Health Insurance or any government Healthcare I get to cover what I need. I've paid Taxes for decades and I've paid Insurance premiums for decades. You aren't paying for my Healthcare. I'm paying for it. End of discussion right?

Meaning there should be pre-existing condition clauses. I shouldn't have to go bantrupt, My wife should be covered for Birth Control.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:11 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: whywhynot

Lol and the hypocrisy of pro lifers when a solution is found that lowers abortions.



Asking for someone else to pay for your fun is hardly a solution.
The much better solution is to pay for it yourself.


Again your morality doesn't matter. It's false.

The numbers and results matter.


My morality is not required.

You pay for your own contraception. If you get pregnant, you take responsibility for it, and you make the changes required to your life. If you decide to have an abortion, you make the decision and you live with the consequences.

All very easy. All the moral choices would be yours.


edit on 6/10/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

it was mandated in obamacare... anyone who decided it was the best route to take could have it covered...
not like when I was having kids and would have paid for it all out of pocket probably because most insurance didn't carry it, heck you were lucky if your insurance would pay for any type of birth control!!!



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: carewemust

Unless they get aborted of coarse. Which will also happen. As well as parents giving birth to kids they don't want who later rob you...


Yes..it is a crapshoot. But at least enable the potential parents to make their decisions without government influencing those decisions.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Sure and I will wait for an actual rebuttal.


That was my actual rebuttal. You dealt Nietzsche and I played the hand. My argument is based on logic and traditional employer values, yours is based on feels and empathy towards the employee. That is the definition of Nietzsche's master morality versus slave morality theory.


My philosophy is on Kant and duty and what a social contract is.

Mix in some John Locke as well. There are things when they benefit everyone that are justified. Like having police to protect your possessions.

If it's true that birth control being provided stops abortions and people from having unwanted kids that often grow up jerks it benefits us all.

Social contract.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: whywhynot

Lol and the hypocrisy of pro lifers when a solution is found that lowers abortions.



If you can’t afford a dollar a day to pay for birth control you can’t afford to have a baby. Have your fun on your own dime not mine. Be responsible.





Workers now pay an average of $1,318 out of pocket before health insurance coverage begins to cover part of their bills, up from $584 a decade ago, according to a new report out from the Kaiser Family Foundation. That’s after paying an average of $89 each month for health insurance premiums.

time.com...


Birth control isn't free, it just isn't an extra charge, under The ACA. The ACA hasn't been repealed by this rule. It just created a loophole, punishing women by allowing religious objection to "trump" their health care needs.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Government isn't making people take contraceptives. They are providing it for those too lazy or without means.

If it works it works. And it's cheap.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: windword

So your contention is that mankind is no more than animals who cannot control their base urges? That may be the case with many but why wouldn’t one endeavor to overcome those animal urges? Lots of examples of people bonding without sex. Sex has plenty of examples of destroying people and their lives.

Again, all of this over a dollar a day. Nope, wedge issue.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: whywhynot
a reply to: intrepid

If your are broke there are any number of things that a responsible person would not do.


Sounds like morality prostitution. No money, no sex. Not right, as sex is part of the human bodies function, and not realistic in the least.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth


"When people pay their insurance premiums, they paying for their own contraception. "



Not true.
The nature of insurance is that you don't pay for your own treatment - risk is supposed to be pooled and lower premiums are for avoiding the risk of higher costs
The lunacy of putting birth control into health insurance is that it's no longer about insuring against risk, it's paying for an ongoing consumption.


That's why it's lunacy to think that the pennies that are funneled into contraception, from an employer's premiums, are meaningful to anyone except the women losing her benefits.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: intrepid

it was mandated in obamacare... when I was having kids and would have paid for it all out of pocket probably because most insurance didn't carry it, heck you were lucky if your insurance would pay for any type of birth control!!!



Once you cross the line of government forcing a private company to pay for something 100%, you've entered the realm of "single payer", with the insurance company as the middle man.

You're better off getting rid of that middle-man, if you want Free birth control. You can then add free vasectomies and condemns, so the men don't feel left out, like they are now.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:23 PM
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Here's a novel thought, why don't people mind their own business. And speaking of businesses, if you don't like your benefits, get a job with ones you do. There, everyone wins.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Do companies have to pay taxes? Do they decide if it buys an F-35?

Why do people who think they are pro life condone raising the amount of abortions?

Since the babies of those immoral people having sex without the means for babies are the one doing it it doesn't seem to matter either way.

Maybe forcing people to raise kids they don't want seems like a great alternative or forcing then not to have sex..


edit on 6-10-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth
and if you drink so much soda that you end up with type 2 diabetes, well, that was your choice
if you eat so much fatty garbage that you end up with heart disease, well, that was your choice
right?? why should I have to pay for your bad choices??
gee, that was easy!! we've just eliminated the need for health insurance since everything could be traced to our own bad decisions probably and since no one wants to pay for the bad decisions of others... well...
sorry, no cooperation or agreement with the parties...



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: whywhynot
a reply to: intrepid

If your are broke there are any number of things that a responsible person would not do.


Sounds like morality prostitution. No money, no sex. Not right, as sex is part of the human bodies function, and not realistic in the least.


Ok I’ll play, eating is also a part of the body’s function. But, you eat in accordance with your means and you don’t eat until you fall over. If you can afford steak you eat steak if you cannot then you eat hot dogs. Perhaps you eat beans and toast. Pay the buck a day.
edit on 6-10-2017 by whywhynot because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: whywhynot
a reply to: windword

So your contention is that mankind is no more than animals who cannot control their base urges? That may be the case with many but why wouldn’t one endeavor to overcome those animal urges? Lots of examples of people bonding without sex. Sex has plenty of examples of destroying people and their lives.



Mankind are animals that are beholding to biology. Mankind is wonderful for having invented medicine and contraception that can override Mother Nature.

But quit sex? Not going to happen. Why should it?



Sex has plenty of examples of destroying people and their lives.


Sex doesn't destroy live, people destroy people's lives.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: whywhynot
a reply to: intrepid

If your are broke there are any number of things that a responsible person would not do.


Sounds like morality prostitution. No money, no sex. Not right, as sex is part of the human bodies function, and not realistic in the least.


Ok I’ll play, eating is also a part of the body’s function. But, you eat in accordance with your means and you don’t eat until you fall over. If you can afford steak you eat steak if you cannot then you eat hot dogs. Perhaps you eat beans and toast. Pay the buck a day.


Except for most people, like me. I've been paying taxes for decades and Insurance premiums for decades. I should have the healthcare I want. That includes birth Control.

You know that for most people that work, we get insurance through our job. It's predetermined mainly, and we have to go with it. private insurance is generally hundreds of dollars a month more and unaffordable for most Americans.

This is why we need healthcare laws, to insure that we get the insurance we deserve (paid for).



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: whywhynot
a reply to: intrepid

If your are broke there are any number of things that a responsible person would not do.


Sounds like morality prostitution. No money, no sex. Not right, as sex is part of the human bodies function, and not realistic in the least.


Ok I’ll play, eating is also a part of the body’s function. But, you eat in accordance with your means and you don’t eat until you fall over. If you can afford steak you eat steak if you cannot then you eat hot dogs. Perhaps you eat beans and toast. Pay the buck a day.


Your type of thinking will be dead in 30 years so it may be a good time to come up with a plan for automation and the fact humans won't have to do dull, dangerous work anymore.

Or not. It doesn't mean you have to be a raging liberal but the sweat of the brow age is over. I have three kids made a bunch of money in real estate as a carpenter working hard. But I know it's over in a few generation. There are no solutions being talked about for the actual future and not the 1950's part two.



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