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Anyone opposed to the hard right propaganda, please stop debating BS..

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posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:01 AM
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We have got to stop debating slippery slope arguments that no one is proposing as if they are real....

No one is talking about banning all guns , nor starting a confiscation program..

The only thing that has EVER been proposed by an actual elected official has been a ban on the NEW SALE of assault rifles. Which would grandfather in all assault rifles already in the population.


So why is anyone that considers themselves left wing or a liberal, debating weather or not to ban all guns in amerIca??


Why are we humoring that at all???

I know, I know ... they change the subject to a total ban and conversation and people on the left like to make the hypothetical argument that:

“if we had a magic geni who wished all the guns away we would be safer..”

Well ain’t no F’n genies....

It is just getting turned against us and and used as proof..

“The black helicopters are comming to get your guns!”

So imho I think people should just refuse to play that game..


Do not allow the conversation to be dragged into Lala land...


I think we should ignore whatever logical fallacy they are throwing out there and instead return to whatever the real proposal is.

Instead of making a hypothetical argument about something that isn’t going to happen. Make the arguments:

“No elected official has ever even proposed a ban nor confiscation.”

“No law enforcement body would be willing to do it.”

Exc..

They are being allowed to use a fantasy as a SUPER EFFECTIVE scare tactic, 100% because of people being willing to make those hypothetical arguments , When everyone one not a hard right conservative knows the probability of anything resembling a ban and confiscation is about as likely as the flying spagetti monster being real....




posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:03 AM
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Agreed. Good post.


+33 more 
posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Then don't support proposals for bans on new assault rifles.

That's called a gun ban, last time I checked.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:05 AM
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yup!

Its not gun-grabbing that is being proposed its just sensible changes.

Ban on certain modifications, something I hear even the NRA supports.

Tougher background checks in all states.

Ban on new sales of certain weapon variants.

I think mandatory training should also be required, strikes me as pretty stupid you need training to drive a car but not own a gun.

I also think that it should be much harder to own multiple firearms and a shed full of amo.

It should be easier for authorities to take away firearms, for example in cases of domestic abuse, or for other convicted criminals.

edit on 6-10-2017 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-10-2017 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:05 AM
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DP

edit on 6-10-2017 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)


+13 more 
posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

So, in short, you want us to (1) stop debating possible things that have actually been said by left-wing politicians in the past, and (2) only react to official statements concerning new firearms.

Nah, I think that I'll still debate things that are possible.

Was it a slipper-slope argument as to why the founding fathers wanted all citizens to be able to keep and bear arms? (Pssst, it was so that the citizens could keep their government in check as well as be able to defend themselves)

No, it was because they has just split from a nation of tyrannical rule and understood that, without the ability to fight on equal ground and in greater numbers, the future would hold exactly that from which we fought to rid ourselves.

When anyone, including you, can research nations where gun confiscation happened and tyrannical rule followed suit, it's a perfectly logical concern to have in basically the ONLY nation on the earth where firearm ownership is a right protected from the government. Being a logical concern, debating the possibility of our elected officials attempting to deprive us of said right is absolutely an appropriate topic to discuss.

Yes, people from all sides incorporate hyperbole from time to time (and certain members on ATS do it MUCH more than others), but that doesn't diminish the appropriateness of the subject matter.

But, by all means, "don't play the game" if you don't want to, I'm just trying to remind you that there is justification for such discussion, even if you find it unnecessary.


+11 more 
posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:15 AM
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The first problem is that there is no such thing as an assault rifle.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Lovely term though, it sounds so.....scary to anti gun types.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:18 AM
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The problem is the people.

There is a certain group of people who are rising up and bringing violence to America, because they haven't gotten their way. If that mindset, and those people were removed from the continental US today, you would see amazing immediate results.

If only we could find a large Island to put them on, where they could start their own country. The first law of that country would be no fire arms whatsoever, and money credits for families that choose to abort the fetus creatures.
All earnings for all the society would go into a pot and be divided according top the needs. People would only be allowed one bedroom per person max, and only electric cars and bicycles would be allowed. There would be some electricity during the day, but dusk is lights out and martial law to keep everyone safe.

There will be cameras on every street corner, and also in the home ( the rest room wont have a camera so as to provide privacy, unless the person has ever misbehaved in any way shape or form.

I think this is all doable, and the trade off of worthless freedom is well worth the safety and security of the citizens



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:22 AM
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Instead of arguing any of those things why not look at:


originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Why are we humoring that at all???

They are being allowed to use a fantasy as a SUPER EFFECTIVE scare tactic,


Stop looking at this as a game of Risk, which must be won, and actually talk to each other. I would have said chess but the conduct of these "combatants" is so childish I wouldn't put that noble game in the same category.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

How many do you consider multiple?
More than 2?

And what safety training would have prevented the Vegas shooting?

On that note, I have no issue with magazine capacity limits and detailed background checks.


+4 more 
posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

For one, owning and operating a vehicle isn't a right. So that's a nonsense argument.

Two, it's already illegal for people who have been convicted of domestic violence to own firearms. It's called the lautenberg amendment.

Lastly, background checks are already very thorough, you've obviously never gotten one or you would know that.

So, in summary you're completely full of crap and have no idea what you're talking about.

But I commend you on your interest in American laws, we are the greatest nation in the world.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: visitedbythem
The problem is the people.

There is a certain group of people who are rising up and bringing violence to America, because they haven't gotten their way. If that mindset, and those people were removed from the continental US today, you would see amazing immediate results.

If only we could find a large Island to put them on, where they could start their own country. The first law of that country would be no fire arms whatsoever, and money credits for families that choose to abort the fetus creatures.
All earnings for all the society would go into a pot and be divided according top the needs. People would only be allowed one bedroom per person max, and only electric cars and bicycles would be allowed. There would be some electricity during the day, but dusk is lights out and martial law to keep everyone safe.

There will be cameras on every street corner, and also in the home ( the rest room wont have a camera so as to provide privacy, unless the person has ever misbehaved in any way shape or form.

I think this is all doable, and the trade off of worthless freedom is well worth the safety and security of the citizens


Did you just describe North Korea?




posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:37 AM
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Lol, just read this Op after reading the one 3 or 4 up with the hot mic and the actual words confiscate being uttered.

But keep arguing and twisting in the wind, doing the bidding of those who think you are worth less than a pile of dirt.


+2 more 
posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:40 AM
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OP's thoughts are on the same thinking as:

We don't want to ban all "Free Speech" ... just those "Speeches" that we do not agree with.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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ahhh to the two lovely gentlemen above who addressed me with such respect and courtesy.....

I do not pretend to know all of the answers, I do not pretend to know what changes need to be made only that actual changes do need to be made.

My only point really was that changes to gun laws do not mean gun-grabbing, as so many of you are so fearful of.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: joemoe
OP's thoughts are on the same thinking as:

We don't want to ban all "Free Speech" ... just those "Speeches" that we do not agree with.


Fixed it for ya!




posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I actually wasn't insulting, you may have read that wrong.

But I'm glad you acknowledge that you may have some lack of understanding on the issue. That's a start.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I really must ask what I said that was not respectful?

And honestly, do you think that lawmaker don't overreact?



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


This OP reminds me of all those ANTIFA videos I have watched! When they see someone debating or having a conversation with a "NAZI" someone walks up and tells them to "Not Engage"!

So much for having a "Conversation"? lol



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