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The Danger of Ideologues

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posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 08:56 PM
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I definitely embrace conservative values in my own life, but my overall driving political philosophy is freedom for the individual and the importance of personal liberty. I might not agree with what you do, but I support your right to do it.

There is already too much Government in our lives and the fact that both sides of the aisle invite the Government to have more control over our lives pisses me off.

Republicans:

Stop interfering with people's reproductive choices. Look, I weep for each and every child that is killed in this country, but at the end of the day I don't get to control someone else's choices regarding their body. I might believe with all my heart that killing a baby is murder, but I can't force my morality on someone else.

The current legislation in Congress to limit abortions to 5 months is 'common sense', but it is still wrong. It doesn't serve to make the lives of our fellow Americans better. Stop forcing your religious morality on others. We each have enough trouble living up to our own standards of conduct without worrying about someone else.

Stop criminalizing drugs because you are only making things worse. We need to have less laws not more.

Democrats:

Stop interfering with the 2nd Amendment. You may not care about the right to bear arms, but it is absolutely critical to those of us that do. You don't need to understand why any more than I can understand wanting to have an abortion. It is important to us so please stop trying to hurt your fellow Americans.

Stop expecting other people to pay for everything. Social programs can be okay, but we don't all agree on which ones.

Stop giving non-citizens priority over existing citizens and let our Government enforce our existing immigration laws.

Everyone:

We have an overbearing, Globalist agenda that is a threat to everyone. Stop trying to help them by attacking the freedoms of fellow citizens. We have enough problems without going out of our way to make each other lives more difficult.

I know not all Republicans and Democrats think strictly along the above description, but I am talking about ideologues and not necessarily you as a thoughtful and introspective human.

Please put individual liberty above partisan politics. We are all better off working together.

We need more freedom, less Government and no wars.


edit on 2017/10/5 by Metallicus because: Spacing / Spelling

edit on 2017/10/5 by Metallicus because: Added color




posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:02 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Nicely said, nice analogy.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:13 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Well, I don't know if we need more political freedoms but I'm all for economic freedoms. And I'm all for a more conservative foreign policy. American adventurism is completely out of the control. We need an Amendment to our Constitution that says you can't drop more than 1000 bombs on one single country per year without a declaration of war from Congress. The US military is in a rampage in the ME.

I don't know if I agree with your criticisms of the Democrats. I have not heard a single Democrat say they want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment rights. I've heard many say they want to get rid of machine guns used in mass shootings. Please give me a link or post of quote of one Democrat who wants to get rid of the 2nd Amendment.

The Republicans want to make abortion illegal because they claim it is murder. They do have a strong moral argument. However, I do agree with you in principle a women has a sovereign right over her own body. I have to be honest with I am swayed by the Republican arguments with regards to the morality of late term abortions. Personally, I would have no problem making abortion completely illegal after 8-10 weeks if the morning after pill were as easily available to ALL women over 18 without a prescription.

What I don't like about your post is you are trying to convince people to believe the way you do as if it was just a matter of acting mature. These issues are very complex and have many nuances. People have a huge variety of experiences. People simple do not agree on many different issues. If you feel this strongly then run for President and see if anyone finds your planks so appealing you become successful.


edit on 5-10-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:14 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

I totally agree with everything you said and if I didn't I still respect your right to have your own opinion.

Anyone that can think for them self and who can respect others rights for freedom is what being an American is all about. My opinion anyway.

Yes!!!!! Government is way too big and way too big for their pants.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

TL;DR?

Stop trying to make people do things within your views.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus


Please put individual liberty above partisan politics. We are all better off working together.





posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:25 PM
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The dispensing of "bodies," as a mistake or inconvenience, says a lot more about the individual than it does about society as a whole. The goal is to allow total freedom, but to evolve past the need to murder to be free. Of course, there will always be those rare times when it is necessary.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:29 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Both Republicans and Democrats:

Stop screwing over minority communities.

Look at the War on Drugs caused by Nixon and continued under both Democrat and Republican administrations.

A Nixon aide even admitted that the War On Drugs was designed to destroy minority communities.
edit on 10/5/2017 by starwarsisreal because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:32 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

I have issues.

Many issues.

One that I have is that the government, by their laws, is going to make everyone a criminal.

If they make abortions illegal, people will still kill the unborn babies, thus making them criminals.

If they remove 2nd Amendment rights, gun owners, people who simply want to protect their homes, are going to be criminals just because they'll want home defense.


Globalists?

They suck.

They want open borders, destroying my country, they want to make nationalism and pride in one's country a bad thing.

They want to make everyone a slave to their system. They are just as bad as the Nazi's the communists. They are amoral douchebags.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 09:32 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus


Every sword has two edges, as they say. Of course there are dangers. What you omit, in the name of 'balance', is there are positives in following a specific ideology.

One very obvious one is the Constitution, itself. That 'ideology', unique as it is, was a commonality that bounded a whole nation for the better part of 200 years. It delayed that which we are experiencing now.

It is the current versions of the ideologies that I take exception to. The subversion of them.

Your abortion issue leaves choice for every single woman, without exception. Before 20 weeks. Choose! After that, it's considered murder. A simple compromise that, as usual, satisfies none. I support it.

When have we ever agreed with every law...or lack of one? Not from day one.

Balance. Laws and freedoms. Latitudes and lines in the sand. Use the Tenth Amendment and let each State decide.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Well, I don't want to 'balance' my 2nd Amendment rights so I try to see abortion from the Lefts point of view. I don't want "common sense" gun control any more than the Left wants what I might consider "common sense" abortion laws.

I would always want to ere on the side of too much freedom over restricting the rights of my fellow citizens. Who am I to define what is important to my fellow citizens?

I know what I value and I can't expect my rights to be valued if I am unwilling to value the rights of others.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: nwtrucker

Well, I don't want to 'balance' my 2nd Amendment rights so I try to see abortion from the Lefts point of view. I don't want "common sense" gun control any more than the Left wants what I might consider "common sense" abortion laws.

I would always want to ere on the side of too much freedom over restricting the rights of my fellow citizens. Who am I to define what is important to my fellow citizens?

I know what I value and I can't expect my rights to be valued if I am unwilling to value the rights of others.


I suggest your second amendment rights are already 'balanced'. Do you take the amendment literally and suggest that all citizens have the right to Nuclear, Biological and Chemical weapons? Literal interpretation of the 'right to bear arms' would include surface to air missiles, Claymores, the list is rather long and distinguished...


Of course, not. No one thinks that. The second amendment rights, currently defended, are already balanced. IMO.

No one suggests you 'define' what's important to your fellow citizens. What you can bank on is if there were enough people that disagreed with what's important to your second amendment rights, they'd be gone. Toast. History. You know it. I know it.

Imposing one's will on others is a condition that isn't going away any time soon. Apparently, defending one's rights, be it the second or any other so-called right includes, unfortunately, ensuring that others do not get what they consider their 'right'. In the case of the second, at a guess, the right to a gun free society.

Intellectual compassion for another's views is one thing. Allowing that understanding to compromise...too far, one own rights, integrity, and that has already gone on too long and too far, IMO.

In too many instances, it's win or lose. I choose win.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker



Imposing one's will on others is a condition that isn't going away any time soon. Apparently, defending one's rights, be it the second or any other so-called right includes, unfortunately, ensuring that others do not get what they consider their 'right'. In the case of the second, at a guess, the right to a gun free society.


A 'gun free society' is not an individual liberty. You are putting the rights of society over the rights of the individual.

Does society have a right to an 'abortion free society' or a homosexual free society? We cannot allow society to dictate our individual rights.

At some point the mob comes for you if the majority can dictate rights. I suggest that we allow people most rights that don't infringe on other individuals or their property.

I'f someone wants to buy drugs and someone wants to sell drugs why does Government need to be involved? Prostitution is the same thing.

Government and even society needs to butt out of people's lives.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus


I agree with your premise....ideally.

It ain't gonna happen. Equality, fairness, justice. All society based. No longer Don't lie, don't steal, don't cheat, don't murder.

It IS society vs the individual.

I am NOT a Libertarian and never will be. Balance between the two is when this nation was at it's best. Hence my support for Trump, he is not a ideologue.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

I like what you had to say here.

We think along the same lines, but I'm a tad more willing to compromise. A society is defined by the way it treats life. Period.

As far as abortion: I support the right for a woman to decide whether she wants to have a child. After all, it is way too easy to get pregnant---as it should be ---as it ensures the continuity of mankind. But we need to ensure people are at choice.

But aborting a fetus after a certain point in its growth is just, well, too much for me to take in. There are babies that are aborted close to birth. Most people know they are pregnant well into 3 months after conception. Sometimes we have to enforce personal responsibility. Get an abortion early on---not when you're closing in on your due date for god sakes.


Gun control: I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment but I don't believe weapons of war should be available to the general public.

Sometimes in a just society we have to compromise.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Metallicus


Please put individual liberty above partisan politics. We are all better off working together.






As long as the individual liberties include helpless innocent babies then I'm with you.



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Metallicus

Well, I don't know if we need more political freedoms but I'm all for economic freedoms. And I'm all for a more conservative foreign policy. American adventurism is completely out of the control. We need an Amendment to our Constitution that says you can't drop more than 1000 bombs on one single country per year without a declaration of war from Congress. The US military is in a rampage in the ME.

I don't know if I agree with your criticisms of the Democrats. I have not heard a single Democrat say they want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment rights. I've heard many say they want to get rid of machine guns used in mass shootings. Please give me a link or post of quote of one Democrat who wants to get rid of the 2nd Amendment


I ate lunch with US Congressman Marc Veasy a while back. After he left I researched and found he had penned a bill banning all firearms to then President Obama.
My FB is full of old friends who went liberal and want all guns gone.

As for abortion, they can kill themselves to terminate it I guess. Such disregard for life is unacceptable. It takes two to make a child. What about the father and child's rights? She should have every right to her body but at that point it's two. If you leave a toddler alone they will not survive either. Should their right to live still be in the Mothers hands?
"To much trouble with your 1 year old? Take em out with the new toddler abortion kit! Only $19.99! But wait, there's more!" "Adolescents got you flustered?"



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