Scotland may be first to adopt a Universal Income, will give $200 a week to every citizen for life

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: nOraKat

There's another name for Universal Income, it's called welfare.

I think it would be more acceptable if people are required to community service as a form of contributing to society.

Most people that are working don't get welfare, maybe some do.
OP says they will give it out regardless of income and status.
It could stimulate the economy for people to have a little extra spending cash.

It doesn't quite make sense to be given this if you have a good income.

It does make sense because the administrative aspects is massively streamlined. Instead of a means base where you must employ thousands of social workers the system is simplified to an algorithmic program.

If you make a flat tax and a ubi the salaries of the beuracracy become part of the ubi. It also alows a person to survive if they are laid off and given a cushion to retrain or even develop a new business idea while working. The beuracracy that decides if you deserve unemployment or welfare can take too long.

It also provides investment money back onto the economy.

But it's possible humans will just find a way to make a mess of what ever idea we come up with.

UBI instead of welfare can also encourage people to work more. Sometimes people have opportunities for short-term jobs, but choose not to take them, because just a little bit of extra income can disqualify them from various subsidies. In other words, they'd end up loosing money if they work, because the system is broken. Depends on the country of course.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

Usually these large scale Universal Income theories replace all or most social safety net programs. So yes, you'll receive the Universal Income during good times; but it's also the only thing you'll receive during bad times. No food stamps, no public housing, no healthcare for the poor, no free or reduced cost lunches for poor kids at school, no govt subsidized homeless or abuse shelters, etc. Some proposals go even further and get rid of pensions, Social Security-type programs, and more.

The real "bad times" comes when the international bankers determine that a country is spending too much money on the people and not enough on the interest of the national debt. Then comes the time for the Greek Haircut. Bankers will dictate how much will be spent on social programs and they will take national hard assets to cover the debt.

I get these offers all the time in the mail. "Hey, you seem like a good guy. How about we loan you up to $50,000? You're pre-qualified." You have to look deep into the fine print to see the 30% interest rate. It's a nice scam if you can get away with it.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

Usually these large scale Universal Income theories replace all or most social safety net programs. So yes, you'll receive the Universal Income during good times; but it's also the only thing you'll receive during bad times. No food stamps, no public housing, no healthcare for the poor, no free or reduced cost lunches for poor kids at school, no govt subsidized homeless or abuse shelters, etc. Some proposals go even further and get rid of pensions, Social Security-type programs, and more.

The real "bad times" comes when the international bankers determine that a country is spending too much money on the people and not enough on the interest of the national debt. Then comes the time for the Greek Haircut. Bankers will dictate how much will be spent on social programs and they will take national hard assets to cover the debt.

I get these offers all the time in the mail. "Hey, you seem like a good guy. How about we loan you up to $50,000? You're pre-qualified." You have to look deep into the fine print to see the 30% interest rate. It's a nice scam if you can get away with it.

It doesn't work that way with the printing press and cpi controls.

A body would have to come together to use an armada to stop trade.

What is inevitable is that jobs are going away and not coming back.

The people fighting to do dull, dangerous, and boring work to make money will destroy society if they succeed. It will ultimately lead to another french revolution or eugenic extermination

What is the plan when 6 million people driving for a living in the us have now or in 20 years?

Anyone planning on the robots yet or are we just going to go hunger games with peasants and elite?

In this regard relying on a ubi would be dangerous but some planning needs to be done soon for the enivetable..

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Umm ok. But what does that have to do with my post or what I described?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I thought I was reinforcing your point.

These Universal Income schemes depend on a nation borrowing money they don't have from banks that don't have it at interest. The borrowed money plus the interest can never be paid back with the printed money, so the banks will collect national and private hard assets and force the governments to reduce social programs. Just as they did in Greece.

The government may have good intentions trying to provide for the welfare of the people, but, ultimately, the decision will be taken from them. The bankers will determine how much will be provided to the people, and how much will be taken from them.

Good times when elected officials determine what's best for the people that elected them. Bad times when the banks want their money.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I thought I was reinforcing your point.

These Universal Income schemes depend on a nation borrowing money they don't have from banks that don't have it at interest. The borrowed money plus the interest can never be paid back with the printed money, so the banks will collect national and private hard assets and force the governments to reduce social programs. Just as they did in Greece.

The government may have good intentions trying to provide for the welfare of the people, but, ultimately, the decision will be taken from them. The bankers will determine how much will be provided to the people, and how much will be taken from them.

Good times when elected officials determine what's best for the people that elected them. Bad times when the banks want their money.

The ubi can come out of simplifying the tax code (flat tax) and replacing the benefit beuracracy with a simple formula.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: nOraKat

There's another name for Universal Income, it's called welfare.

I think it would be more acceptable if people are required to do community service to get Universal Income as a form of contributing to society.

And socialism ! Where is the government going to get the funds to do this? From all of their billionaire 1%ers? It's completely unsustainable in any way shape or form.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

But the versions we keep mentioning in this thread pay for themselves by basically replacing all other social safety net programs. So it's not about borrowing money; it's about taking all funds that would've gone to other social programs and diverting that money to only this one UBI program. (Well, that's the version I've been talking about in my posts in this thread.)

I'm actually against the version of UBI that I've been talking about because I don't think it helps when we factor in inflation, cost of living, and the lack of price controls. But there are various versions that I would agree with, including a State-owned automated company that sells its products overseas, with the profits being shared among the citizens. But I don't think people are talking too much about those variations of UBI programs.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: nOraKat

There's another name for Universal Income, it's called welfare.

I think it would be more acceptable if people are required to do community service to get Universal Income as a form of contributing to society.

And socialism ! Where is the government going to get the funds to do this? From all of their billionaire 1%ers? It's completely unsustainable in any way shape or form.

Flat tax 26 percent average income 50k is 13k per person. No welfare, medicare, snap, irs is reduced to an 1/8th it's size.

Corporations save by saving on compliance costs. Lot of ways.

Take away the welfare system altogether. Do you have any idea the cost involved in running a welfare system and tax credits and pip and invalidity this and that etc etc.

Here's an example of our stupid waste of money wefare system, Take Atos or Maximus, A company/companies that serves no real purpose whatsoever and we pay them billions, Most of those who a struck off the Emplyment support allowance or PIP win after a costly to the government/you and me, tribunal.

These tribunals cost thousands per tribunal to the tax payer and there are hundreds a day with most being successful and benefits having to be repaid and backdated over periods of a few months up to a year and more depending on how many tribunals they have went through.

eg, Woman loses £8000 a year disability car only to be replaced with a £65,000 a year taxi service.HERE

This is how we can afford universal basic income, We do away with bull# red tape and private business set up on the back of welfare. We also do away with nuclear weapons and invest heavily in clean energy. It's all really quite simple, We stop throwing money down the drain at stupid #, doomed to fail # and unwinable war #.

We look after our people before we look after the the billionaires. In fact we tell the Billionaires here are the rules, play by them of jog the # on.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

In the us I think it's over 2 trillion if you factor the irs

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Soloprotocol

In the us I think it's over 2 trillion if you factor the irs

Well there's your starter for 10. 2 trillion to run or that's just what they pay out. I caan guarantee they waste trillions on just running the #ing thing.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

The compliance cost estimate for business to the irs tax code is about 400 billion alone. Having floors of acountants.

The Skripal's poisoning was orchestrated by MI6 to prevent Scotland's independence and to revert Brexit.
The idea was to use the external threat to scaremonger the Scots into accepting the Windsor as legitimate rulers.

originally posted by: Flanker86
The Skripal's poisoning was orchestrated by MI6 to prevent Scotland's independence and to revert Brexit.
The idea was to use the external threat to scaremonger the Scots into accepting the Windsor as legitimate rulers.

You Russians must think the west is stupid, play your dividing game on twitter

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: nOraKat

Where are they going to get the money from?