Scotland may be first to adopt a Universal Income, will give $200 a week to every citizen for life

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Teikiatsu

That isn't exactly true. Your comparing a budget with social services and workers insurance etc.


Your failing to recognize the ubi cancels welfare programs and pensions etc.

I'll believe that when I see it. You want to talk about people losing their jobs. What about the bureaucrats who depend on administering those programs for their careers?

Let's say they try that in the US. When you have a significant portion of society that believes they only are where they are because others had a "head start" on them, then you tell them everyone regardless will receive this benefit? What do you think would happen?

a reply to: ketsuko

What do I think would happen? I think people making 27,000 at a crap job would have a 10k bonus.

What do you think happens when republicans cut taxes and can't balance a budget?

a reply to: luthier

Everyone over 18 gets basic income. Not just unemployed. Do you have that?

Honestly not sure how the scale is . I believe younger people wont get as much as me but still get free medical/dental etc . Well every Australian gets that plus more as in reduced medication scripts etc .

Sorry i did not read your reply fully . Here the tax free threshhold is around 17 thousand as in not tax .

a reply to: hutch622

Do you get a standard amount of cash every week or month not benefits. Cash.

In some models you no longer get medical the ubi becomes the only benefits.

a reply to: nOraKat

Trust me when i say that "They" give with one hand and take with the other.

If they are giving out £150 to everyone, inevitably they will probably take £300 back by some other means of taxation or government extortion scam.

Cost of living will go up for a start, not that it already is not doing so, not to mention quite a few refugees and benefit tourists will on there way in droves.

Its a nice idea on paper but the reality may not be as desirable as it seems.

a reply to: luthier

Do you get a standard amount of cash every week or month not benefits. Cash.

It goes straight in to my bank account but that is changing slowly . There are places where they are trialing a credit card type system where you can only get a certain amount of cash . Its an attempt to try and stop drug/alcohol abuse etc .

a reply to: hutch622

So that is welfare not a ubi.

A UBI is for everyone. Including those with jobs. It is in place of a tax return.

a reply to: luthier

Ironically, a lot of libertarian sites are in favor of it because of the way it would eliminate social programs, shrink govt by eliminating the administration of those programs, & be cheaper to taxpayers. This is from an article in 2013:

Current federal social welfare programs in the United States are an expensive, complicated mess. According to Michael Tanner, the federal government spent more than $668 billion on over one hundred and twenty-six anti-poverty programs in 2012. When you add in the $284 billion spent by state and local governments, that amounts to $20,610 for every poor person in America.

Wouldn’t it be better just to write the poor a check?

Each one of those anti-poverty programs comes with its own bureaucracy and its own Byzantine set of rules. If you want to shrink the size and scope of government, eliminating those departments and replacing them with a program so simple it could virtually be administered by a computer seems like a good place to start. Eliminating bloated bureaucracies means more money in the hands of the poor and lower costs to the taxpayer. Win/Win.

The Libertarian Case for a Basic Income

In fact, a quick google search for "libertarians universal income" shows a myriad of proposals, including one that proposes privatizing the highways to fund it (here's the actual "subscribe to read" link & here's an page about that proposal).

To be fair though, a lot of libertarian sites are also against it. But at least they're talking about it & its ramifications in detail. Here, it's basically just a bunch of kneejerk reactions w/no attention to details whatsoever.

a reply to: andy06shake

It's all make believe theory including the current model. Certainly worth a shot.
It would help the people who work crap jobs with a 10k boost and keep them from giving up since it pays more to do nothing.

Immigration can be controlled. I haven't seen may immigrants in Scotland have you?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yeah, I studied economics a bit and it's even in the Austrian school theory.

It's a much better solution than welfare imo.

If I had that income while developing my business I could have grown much faster and without debt.

People always assume the worst.

a reply to: luthier

So that is welfare not a ubi.

I fail to see the difference .

a reply to: hutch622

Well its pretty clear..

The dole is for people not working. It's rates differ for different people, it's made up of Healthcare etc...

The ubi is the same for everyone. It eliminates all benefits other than the basic income.

a reply to: luthier

Research Govahill, Glasgow and you may find that there are plenty of immigrants in Scotland not to mention the problems associated with such.

Anythings worth a shot if it helps to improve the 3rd world nation Scotland has become on rather a few levels but i dont think that this will do that in the way imagined.

Immigration cannot be controlled whilst idiots like Sturgeon are pretty much telling these poor people that are welcome on our doorstep when the reality of the situation is rather a different kettle of fish.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk...

This is what the place looks like on almost a daily basis.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: hutch622

Well its pretty clear..

The dole is for people not working. It's rates differ for different people, it's made up of Healthcare etc...

The ubi is the same for everyone. It eliminates all benefits other than the basic income.

That's the part that people here don't seem to be getting.

a reply to: Puppylove

Thats a really good point.

a reply to: andy06shake

I go to Scotland frequently and it has not become even close to what other parts of Europe have.

But I don't live there so I will take your word for it.

Do those immigrants currently get money? How much better would the ubi be for immigrants? Do immigrants qualify for a ubi?

Can I show you videos of detroit, chicago, Springfield ma, and say look how bad capitalism is?

It's not a real argument without context.

a reply to: luthier

The ubi is the same for everyone. It eliminates all benefits other than the basic income.

So a basic income and no benefits does not sound like a good deal to me .

a reply to: hutch622

It's not a deal. It's a safety net you don't go lower than.

a reply to: luthier

"Do those immigrants currently get money? How much better would the ubi be for immigrants? Do immigrants qualify for a ubi?"

Of course, they are provided with monies, they need to survive like the rest of the people of our nation.

If they are in receipt of benefits now they will inevitably qualify for this Universal Income Credit.

Buddy you can show me vids of anything relevant you care to choose as you are completely correct, context being the definitive component in most situations.

a reply to: andy06shake

Poverty and squalor exist beyond immigration is my point.

My family is from Poland. We travel frequently to Europe and I sincerely consider Scotland a beautiful safe and friendly place.

The level of graffiti is far less than even Switzerland.

My other point is, the details of the ubi are pretty important. If your setting up a low wage system of using immigrants for low wage job vacancies that is the issue. Not the ubi.

It sound like your currently giving these immigrants benefits to move to Scotland. I fail to see two difference other than all citizens will get the money rather than just the poor.

I also see a huge simplification in terms administrative process. Which alone is worth it imo.