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posted on Aug, 22 2002 @ 02:12 PM
Has anyone read or heard of the Mojave files. I have just read through them and I am totally amazed by what is in them. Although I had downloaded them a while back and over that time have only read bits of them. Over the last day or so I have read them in their entirety and as I say I am totally amazed. So I was wondering if any of your other sleuths have read them and as to what your opinions are on the matter. I can't remember where I received them from but if you have not read them let me know and I will e-mail a copy of them to you.

posted on Aug, 22 2002 @ 08:47 PM
I have a link to that one (I think) see if this is the same one you are talking about.

posted on Aug, 23 2002 @ 02:02 AM
Clive -
I've read the Mojave reports through 2 or 3 times, and I've corresponded with many of the people involved, so I have a little better perspective on the truthfulness of the whole thing.
Ether some of the people(that I contacted) are lying to cover something up, or there are parts of that document that are fabricated.
In any case, its totally possible that our technologically-superior ancestors built underground kingdoms, which I intend to explore further as soon as I get enough time and money to travel.
Wanna learn more? Go read some of the books mentioned on the Mojave website. "Death Valley Scotty" of DEATH VALLEY MEN told the author that he knew exactly where the caves were in death valley. Too bad the book's 100 years old.
(if your read it, that quote's at the very end)

upward and onward

posted on Aug, 23 2002 @ 09:32 AM
My bet is on the fabrication.

Starting with the name "Oga Make" -- which is niether Navajo nor Paiute. The only time either of those words appears in connection to either Navajo or Paiute are in the context of the story in that link.

Structurally and linguisitically, it doesn't match... so the "old Indian" doesn't exist. Fate Magazine is... not known for its fact-checking, I'm afraid. Appearing in FATE is about the same level of credibility as appearing in the National Inquirer.

posted on Aug, 23 2002 @ 09:35 AM
...another point....

If these "HAV-MUSUVS " are so prominent in Paiute legend/Navajo legend, then why isn't there a record of them or mention of them in any book of Indian legends?

posted on Aug, 23 2002 @ 09:54 PM
In regard to what Indians learned about there culture, it will depend on their (individual) heritage and ancestry. If you are accepted as a descendant of founders (for instance) you will be exposed to more complex issues. This particular link (which I have read in its entirety) does have some interesting points (in relation to what I have been exposed to, as far as legend). Let me point out at the juncture, that by "exposure," I mean more than just simply being informed.

Western Hemispheric Indians (according to legend) did develop nuclear technology and as well did use that technology against India (and probably on one other occasion). The stories of Atlantis, are a reflection of what was a western hemispheric culture. This probably something along the lines (or in regard). To what society resided in Arizona and Puerto Rico (Their are really good reasons for why this to me seems to make sense).

As far as I know Atlantis (or at least the culture which this name was applied) did not actually fall (This was wishful thinking amongst those who were there enemies). Rather they reached a point of technological superiority, in which they concluded, that an
isolationist ethic. Was the appropriate thing to do (something which is in the process of changing).

History as taught, portrays the American Indian as the last culture to actually get a chance to form. This information is incorrect and it is more than likely the separate hemispheres developed there own identity (pole shifts).

As far as the possibility that Western Hemispheric Indians developed UFO technology, I should not go so far as to dismiss the matter as Tabloid paraphernalia. But rather would suggest, that in respect to this matter. Perhaps it is better to consider alternatives. Undisturbed by the usual BS, it took the US 100 years to develop present technology. That some other culture who was free and independent, could very well exceed any expectation (this including what we call UFO's). Is literally a matter of perspective (in regard to what actually exist as real). This meaning that it is not impossible, just improbable under certain conditions (Those conditions related to what we accept as real in the present).

Such standards as what is commonly understood, are not necessarily the proper example (This in regard to what I know of legend) UFO's are technology, western hemispheric Indians do have access to (it is possible) . This to an extent that potential sightings are evident of an intent (European crop circles). That intent to make clear a degree of superiority (this in response and directly due to the past issues of abuse).

As always I invite responses, so what are your thoughts?

posted on Aug, 24 2002 @ 08:01 AM
wannabe.... what do you know about Morris Doreal who runs an organisation called the 'Brotherhood of the White Temple' which is mentioned in the Mojave files. Did you have any conntact with him?
I noted that Deep Springs are
areas of conflict between U.S. Government & 'Nordic' groups against the Greys do you know, or know of, anyone who has been there?

posted on Aug, 24 2002 @ 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Toltec
I have a link to that one (I think) see if this is the same one you are talking about.

Yep thay are the same ones. Thanks Toltec for providing the link to this Thread...

posted on Aug, 25 2002 @ 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Byrd
My bet is on the fabrication.

I'm with your Byrd!
Definetly fabricated. Anyone who read a half of that would came to the same concusion ... unless he's a naive 12 yearold. Come to think of it i could have made a second Gob#e post with this text.

Just look at some quotes:

Leonard, based on research gathered by himself and certain ex-NASA employeesthat, NASA is aware of the fact that an alien race (the Grays, etc.) AND a human-like race has for centuries been fighting for possession of the moon
I don't know whether to laugh of cry

posted on Aug, 25 2002 @ 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Toltec
As far as I know Atlantis (or at least the culture which this name was applied) did not actually fall (This was wishful thinking amongst those who were there enemies). Rather they reached a point of technological superiority, in which they concluded, that an
isolationist ethic. Was the appropriate thing to do (something which is in the process of changing).

Wrong, your are very very wrong.

posted on Aug, 25 2002 @ 06:07 PM
Actually friend it is you who are wrong. Perhaps you should read more of what I am posting. Beyond that my advise is that you get off the Marijuana (have read what you offer todate) . You do realize that at your age all that smoking is messing with you in a big way.

See attached.....

Lost City

Anient Ruins

PS: If you need more evidence no problem. Don't worry be happy

posted on Aug, 26 2002 @ 11:18 AM
STILL, your the one whos wrong

and i dont smoke weed you jackass

oh and don't tell me to read more, tell it to yourself

[Edited on 26-8-2002 by Tyler]

posted on Aug, 26 2002 @ 11:28 AM

I wonder how the other (and I mean sane) skeptics, will react to this...

posted on Aug, 26 2002 @ 07:27 PM
As stated I have reflected what I know in regard to this subject taking into consideration my background. This being a Taino Indian (as well of Japanese decent). In all respect to my cultural background I have not modified any of the ancient stories.

Not sure Bandit795 have not met any as of yet.

How wrong am I Tyler ?

posted on Aug, 27 2002 @ 07:22 AM
Toltec, I mean William, Byrd etc...

This might be of interest to you...

posted on Aug, 27 2002 @ 12:29 PM
I'm a quarter Cherokee and do have some familiarity with that culture, thank you.

I also study and collect books on American Indian legends and a current hobby is photographing petroglyphs and native rock art.

The names given are niether Paiute nor Navajo. They don't conform to the rules of those languages, as far as I can tell (it's like saying "there's this British royal family whose last name is W'y'zmph-s'k'tt'rk". Anyone seeing that would go "Nope.")

There *are* sacred stories that are never told to outsiders. However, there's knowledge about them and the terms are not unknown.

Scientifically, it's just silly. The LAST time that Death Valley was "playa" (as the tale says) of the ocean, was during the late Paleozoic, about 200 million years ago. That's about 195 million years before hominids and around 199.5 million years before modern man and the Indians. Ooops.

Most of the area is volcanic in nature. You don't get huge cave systems in volcanic material because it doesn't dissolve. You get huge cave systems in limestome. Not much limestone there, so the "Hav-musuvs" did not (as the tale says) "find" (exact quote) caverns big enough to put a city in. /volcanic_past_death_valley.html

Note that everyone agrees the original story is a retelling of a tale that appeared in the book, DEATH VALLEY MEN. In this, the mysterious race is described as being similar to the Incans and having technologically advanced wheelbarrows.

They then pull the famous old con man stunt of "well, someone stole the artifacts! Waah!!" And note the SECOND attempt when a "group of investors" was involved. "Dr. Russell" was a con man and the investments went to him, of course.

So, THAT part of the info is just plain bad.

It goes downhill from there.

posted on Aug, 27 2002 @ 05:18 PM
In the Mojave files it says "The preceding account, titled "TRIBAL MEMORIES OF THE FLYING SAUCERS", appeared in the Sept. 1949 issue of FATE magazine. Coincidentally or not, this same 'legend' was repeated in amazing similarity by an old prospector by the name of Bourke Lee in his book "DEATH VALLEY MEN" (Macmillan Co., New York, 1932). However, Lee stated that it was NOT a legend, but an actual account of the discovery of a (now abandoned) city WITHIN the Panamint Mountains as he heard it from three other people who claimed to have seen this ancient wonder beneath the earth".

Have you come across the magazine article or the book that is mentioned. Are they real articles and books?

How many generations back did you get your Cherokee blood? I'm not questioning your blood line I'm just interested. I never met any one with Native american blood. Also forgive my ignorance but which area were they Cherokee native to, was it navada? I know from the great western movies made by the Americans that the Apache indians come from mostly New mexico, but I'm not sure or know much about the Cherokee's.

posted on Aug, 27 2002 @ 06:59 PM
Hey Byrd While the attached is not related (directly to the subject)it does offer insight into the culture in question. My next point does require I ask you. how much do you know about Mayan sound technology?

by Larissa Vilenskaya
Menlo Park, California


"The highest wisdom has but one science--the science of the whole--the science explaining the whole creation and man's place in it." Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace.

In this paper,1 I present some of my observations of para-psychological (psi) research in the former Soviet Union resulting from my trips to Moscow in October/November 1991, September/October of 1992 and to Moscow and Novosibirsk in April of 1993. The last two trips were undertaken together with a colleague from California. While narrative overviews of our findings regarding some aspects of psi research in Russia are presented elsewhere (May and Vilenskaya, 1993, 1994; Vilenskaya and May, 1995), I would like to discuss here the relationship of some of the studied phenomena to shamanism and their implications for understanding our global interconnectedness. Seeing at a Distance: Studies in Extrasensory Perception Remote Viewing in Shamanic Traditions

Among skills described in many shamanic practices is the ability of "vision at a distance" (Eliade, 1972:184). In all shamanic cultures, the shaman is the diviner who, through divination, reveals unknown past events, things and persons lost, and future things to happen (e.g., Basilov, 1984:94, 132, 158; Hulkrantz, 1978:37, 54). In other words, shamans are purported to perceive various kinds of information without known senses and known means of communication. For example, shamanic practitioners among the Sauteaux Indians (the Ojibwa-speaking people of the Berens River in Manitoba, Canada) are believed to possess clairvoyant powers which enable them "to secure news about people who are hundreds of miles away, or learn of events that are taking place in another part of the country, [or] ... discover what is going to happen in the future" (Hallowell, 1942:12). Shamans in Siberia are reported to be "consulted to find men or animals gone astray in the tundra or the snow, to recover a lost object, and so forth" (Eliade, 1972:184). Scientifically, similar abilities are studied in research of extrasensory perception (ESP) or remote viewing. Some ESP Studies in the Former Soviet Union

In the 1970s, Ludmila Korabelnikova, an artist in Moscow, participated in 5,000 ESP trials which employed standard double blind techniques. From them, 109 test series with ESP cards in opaque envelopes (these cards depict five symbols: a star, cross, square, circle, and wavy lines) with 25 trials in each series, i.e., 2,725 trials, resulted, on the average, in 14.5 hits per series (25 trials) instead of the 5 expected by chance. Over 2,000 trials with numbers from 0 to 9 resulted in 14 hits per series (also 25 trials), instead of the average 2.5 expected by chance (Kobzarev, 1984:95 96; Kogan, 1988:226 227).

More recently, Korabelnikova took part in different tests, this time including more varieties of tasks than identification of ESP cards or numbers (Stefanov, 1992). In one of them, she was given rolls of EKG paper with electrocardiograms of patients, all of whom were unknown to her and asked to state whether or not each of the patients was alive at the moment. She reportedly did not make a single mistake. Two interesting details transpired during the test. Once Ludmila said, referring to one roll of EKG paper: "He was dead and now is alive." When she heard herself saying this, she got angry at herself, "I'm sorry for talking nonsense; I must be tired!" It turned out, however, that her "nonsense" made perfect sense: the person whose EKG was given to Ludmila experienced clinical death and was resuscitated. Working with another roll of EKG paper, Ludmila described it in the following way: "There is nothing dead or alive here." This was a calibration curve of the EKG machine (Stefanov, 1992:27).

Unfortunately, Russian researchers do not always give enough methodological details in their reports for the readers to judge whether all sensory clues and conventional modes of receiving information were excluded. We need to maintain closer contacts with our colleagues in Russia and to be able to better understand their experimental and theoretical approaches. To torabelnikova's credit, she is well-known in Moscow and beyond for her reported success in locating missing persons and other practical tasks.

Vladimir Safonov, a healer and remote perception operator in Moscow, is also often approached by police to locate missing people. Similarly to Korabelnikova, he is reputed to be able to identify whether or not the person was alive and the cause of death, if not. For this purpose, he works with a variety of objects. These include photographs of the deceased individuals (taken when they were alive), undeveloped film, a person's name, and at times even the person's fingerprint (Fomin, 1991a, 1991b). Most of his statements were reportedly correct. In particular, Yuri Fomin (1991b), an engineer in Moscow, described the following experiment:

Safonov was shown the fingerprints of an unknown individual. The person who brought the fingerprints to Safonov did not know anything about the person to whom they belonged. Safonov described the prints as belonging to a shortish woman, slender, with straight hair, aged 30 35, now dead; death had resulted from a blow on the back of her neck, and she was naked when killed. The prints belonged to the dead body of a naked woman indeed. She was in fact killed with a blow on the back of her neck. Her appearance was described correctly (p. 153).

Russian researchers reported other numerous attempts to apply remote perception to various practical tasks. Some of them are discussed below.
Applied Remote Viewing

Carefully designed studies of remote viewing have been conducted in this country since the early 1970s (e.g., Puthoff, Targ, and May, 1981; May, 1995). Our Russian colleagues seem to focus their efforts more on applied aspects of remote viewing rather than on experimental research. While in Moscow, I met with Ivan Sokolov, head of the Center of Alternative Diagnostics in St. Petersburg, and Anna Smirnova, an associate of this center. For the past several years, this group has reportedly been using remote viewing for solving practical tasks in geology, construction, engineering, and ecology. Specific tasks included a search for ore and mineral deposites; e.g., one of the projects involved a search for kimberlite pipes--diamond deposits in Siberia; as well as a search for structural and technological faults in buildings and technological equipment. Sokolov also talked at length about their recent ecological project performed for city of St. Petersburg in which they identified the areas contaminated by heavy metals in the vicinity of the territory called Krasny Bor in the St. Petersburg province.2
Action at a Distance: Psychokinesis
"Distant Influence" in Shamanic Traditions

It is maintained in many cultures that some individuals are capable of affecting the surrounding world by yet unknown means. Some shamans, such as those on the Chukotka Peninsula and Altaian yadachi, are believed to be able to influence the future, in particular the weather, to cause and stop snow storms, rain or hail (Basilov, 1984:15; Czaplicka, 1914:200; Hulkrantz, 1978:37). The Beaver Indians of northeastern British Columbia believe that they can affect creation "through a combination of thought and will" (Mills, 1982, p. 37). "If one wants to stop someone in his course of action ...," they hold, "imbuing one's thoughts with power, or mayine [as they call it], and directing them mentally to that person has the effect of bringing about the state desired" (ibid.).
Soviet Studies

Psi research programs in the Soviet Union have primarily focused on experimental studies in "distant influence" on animate and inanimate systems, i.e., the phenomena termed psychokinesis (PK) and bio-PK by Western researchers ((e.g., Vilenskaya, 1984; May and Vilenskaya, 1993). Bio-PK effects have been studied in Russia at all levels of complexity of natural systems, i.e., solutions of organic substances, tissue cultures and micro-organisms, plants, animals, humans. Some of these studies conducted in the former Soviet Union are reviewed below. A paper by Braud and Schlitz (1991) provides a good overview of respective Western studies for interested readers.
Experiments with Tissue Cultures and Bacteria

In studies by Konstantin A. Chernoschekov and Alexei V. Lepekhin (1993) from Tomsk Medical Institute in Siberia, 17 operators attempted to affect several kind of enterobacteria. In 28 instances (26.9%) from 104 experimental series, a change in the inherited properties of bacteria was observed. Another researcher, Yevgeny G. Bondarenko, demonstrated in his experiments that some individuals were capable of affecting certain properties of blood red cells in vitro.

Bondarenko also was an operator in another study in which he was asked to affect hybrid cells that contained a double set of chromosomes from two of their predecessors (i.e., normal cells of a mouse's spleen and a tumor line of cells also obtained from a mouse). In these tests, an inhibition of the growth of cellular clones of the hybrids with dominating activity of the genes of tumor origin was found (Tyagotin and Bondarenko, 1991).

A well-known sensitive and healer, Djuna Davitashvili, was asked to affect a kidney cell culture. She held her hands at a distance of 10 to 20 cm from a container with the culture for 7 to 10 minutes. After 24, 48, and 72 hours, histological studies were conducted. In seven series of experiments it was established that the relative number of mitoses throughout the given area in test cultures was 20 to 30% higher, as compared to the control (Kazna-cheyev, Mikhailova, and Vladimirsky, 1990:85; Kaznacheyev and Trofimov, 1992:69).

Another sensitive and healer, Yevgeny A. Dubitsky, while in Moscow, attempted to affect tissue cultures in Novosibirsk. The cells were in three test tubes each marked by red, blue, or green. In Moscow, Dubitsky chose the color of the test tube he wanted to work with in Novosibirsk, leaving the other two as controls, and informed one of the experimenters (who later did not work with the tissue cultures) of his chosen color. After he attempted to affect the tissue culture in the selected test tube, researchers in Novosibirsk studied RNA synthesis in all three test tubes and found it different in the affected culture as compared with the other two (Mikhailova, Merenkova, and Feldman, 1991:5).
Experiments with Plants

A study conducted at the Research Institute of Fine Mechanics and Optics in St. Petrsburg involved a sprout of corn (or another plant) placed in an aqueous-alcohol solution, which also contained a dye changing its color with a change in the acidity/alkalinity (pH) of the solution. The test-tube was tightly closed, and an operator was asked to affect the solution at a certain distance, while pH of the solution was measured. There also was a control test-tube, not affected by the operator, with the same kind of a sprout and the same solution. In the test solution, a change in pH was observed from 4.9 to 6.44, while no noticeable change was found in the control solution (Dulnev, 1990:5-6).

On the one hand, this study reportedly yielded positive outcome. On the other hand, it is not convincing because of drawbacks in the reporting style of our Russian colleagues. In particular, this report does not contain: the total number of trials, the distance between the operator and the test-tube, whether interchangeable attempts to affect test and control test-tubes were implemented, and whether the order of test and control trials was randomized. The following studies were reported using somewhat better standards.

A group of researchers from the Russian Agricultural Academy in Moscow (Morozova, Polikarpov, Suponitsky, and Ilyina, 1991) describe several series of experiments which involved a human operator effect on plant seeds resulting in an increase in germination of the seeds. In other tests, operators were reportedly capable of stimulating or retarding plant growth, as well as causing two sprouts from one wheat seed (according to the authors, this phenomenon was observed spontaneously in one of 967 control seeds, but in one or two seeds from every 10 to 15 seeds subjected to an operator's influence).

In experiments with kidney beans, sprouts of the seeds subjected to an operator's influence had an additional number of leaves (with the control seeds, in one series, one sprout from 38 control seeds showed this effect while four sprouts from 10 test seeds showed it; in another series, four sprouts from 31 control plants showed the effect while 14 sprouts from 32 test plants showed it). Further studies by Morozova, Dolin, and Suponitsky (1993) confirmed that some operators were capable of affecting plant seeds in such a way as to cause irreversible changes in various plants, such as an increase in the germination of seeds or an increase in the frequency of natural mutations.

Dr. Yuri S. Dolin, a biophysicist in Moscow, has conducted a number of bio-PK experiments together with a group of researchers in the Ukraine, which also involved a human operator's "distant influence" on plant seeds (Tkachuk, et al., 1992). Enzyme activity in some metabolic processes in winter wheat plants grown from "treated" seeds, as compared to "untreated" seeds, was studied. Three-minute exposure of the seeds to "distant influence" turned out to be more effective than nine-minute exposure. In another test series, the pigment content and chloroplast leaf cell photochemical activity of plants were studied after an operator's influence on winter wheat seeds. Again, three-minute influence turned out to be more effective than nine-minute influence.

Back in early 1970s, Veniamin N. Pushkin of the Research Institute of General and Pedagogical Psychology in Moscow reported that changes in the psychophysiological state of a person in hypnosis or through self-regulation affected the electro-physiological activity of plants (Dubrov and Pushkin, 1982:94-99). Recently Yuri S. Dolin and his associates confirmed these findings in carefully designed experiments (Dolin, Davydov, Morozova, and Shumov, 1993).
Experiments with Animals

Dr. Dmitry G. Mirza, head of the Research Division of the National Center for Traditional Folk Medicine in Moscow, and his associate V. I. Kartsev conducted three experimental series on bio-PK (healing) influence on gray mice exposed to lethal doses of ionizing radiation (Kartsev, 1993). The mice were subjected to 850, 900, and 915 rad from a Cs137 source in the first, second, and third series, respectively. All the mice for each series (i.e., the test and control groups) were irradiated simultaneously with the 30 rad/min dose power. There were 10 mice in each test and 10 in each control group (with one exception in the second series where one test group contained nine mice).

The results of the second and third series are most interesting. There were four experimental and four control groups in the second series that was conducted beginning August 13, 1991. For controls, the mortality was 100%, i.e., all 40 mice died without a single one surviving the 19th day after the irradiation. In the test groups, in 19 days, the mortality was 90%, 50%, 40%, and 22% (the last was in the group of nine mice), respectively. While other operators worked at relatively small distances (meters from the mice), the operator who turned out to be the most successful affected mice located in Moscow from the town of Yalta in the Crimea, at a distance of about 800 miles. In January 1993, 15 mice from 39 in the test group were still alive as compared to zero in the control group. In the third series, nine out of 10 animals in one test subgroup and all 10 in another subgroup survived, as compared to three mice in the control group.
Bio-PK Effect on Human Physiology

Dr. Yuri S. Dolin, whose experiments with plants we discussed above, showed us the equipment and design of another interesting experiment. In this test, a subject was located in a dark, sound-proof, electrically shielded chamber, his electroencephalogram (EEG) was monitored, and changes in the brain wave spectrum as the result of remote attention were recorded. The recorded variable was the relative alpha power change during effort compared to control periods. There were experiments conducted both at short distances, when an operator was from 5 to 100 meters from the subject ("receiver"), and at longer distances, from 1 to 10 km. The choice whether a given trial was a test or control and the direction of influence (activation or inhibition of the subject's alpha rhythm) were determined randomly. The subject was not aware whether the given trial was a test or control. With four operators and two receivers, 109 trials were conducted: 53 control and 56 test trials. From these, 21 test trials had the operator attempting "activation" of the subject (thereby intending to decrease the subject's alpha power) and 21 test trials attempted "inhibition," thereby intending to increase the subject's alpha power; in the rest of the test trials the direction of effect was not specified. The results were statistically significant indicating that a person seems to be able to affect alpha power of the sensory-isolated receivers (Dolin, Dymov, and Khatchenkov, 1993).

Operators' method of "distant influence" in this study reminds us of above-mentioned shamanic concepts of "bringing about the state desired" through a "combination of thought and will" of another person (Mills, 1982:37). During the bio-PK session, the operator attempts mentally to "impose" on the subject an image of an event which would be pleasant (in calming-down trials) or upsetting for the subject. It was specifically pointed out that if the operator attempts to "impose" a picture which may be upsetting for someone, but which is not a part of the life or experience of this particular subject, it does not work: the operator has to know what can be emotionally arousing or upsetting (or pleasant) for this particular person.

Although I did participate in some tests using this stimulation vs. inhibition approach, I personally would prefer to send love instead of upsetting images. Rein and McCraty (1993) in this country reported that coherent heart frequencies of individuals focusing on generating deep feelings of love, care or appreciation, caused conformational changes of DNA from distances of up to 0.5 miles from the test area. Perhaps this model will lead us to a better understanding of unity in living nature.
Oneness: Evidence for Global Interconnectedness

Traditional Slavic mythological views and folk healing practices discussed in the previous paper of this series are supported by results of modern parapsychological studies. In reviewing publications in the field of psi research in the former Soviet Union, I came across findings describing interactions at all levels of biological systems hierarchy, i.e., between tissue cultures, plants, animals, and humans.

About 25 years ago, Vlail P. Kaznacheyev, a member of the USSR Academy of Medical Sciences, and his associates discovered a phenomenon of communication between cells. In their tests, one tissue culture was infected by a virus or subjected to an influence of lethal poison and placed in "optical contact" (occurring through quartz glass which is transparent to ultraviolet light) with an intact culture. According to methodological details published by the researchers, accidental contamination of the second culture was reliably excluded. A number of hours later, the cells in the second culture, as if showing "empathy" with their infected counterparts, died with the same specific features of cell death as in the infected culture. The "transmission" of toxicity was reportedly successful for poison and viruses; however, the pattern of cellular death was different, specific for each toxic agent (Kaznacheyev and Mikhailova, 1981, 1985). Interaction between cell cultures in various conditions of their growth, at different distances from each other, was also studied by a number of other researchers in the former Soviet Union, including Kirkin (1981), Molchanov (1985), and Mostovnikov and Khokhlov (1977).

It was also found that non-radiated plants were apparently capable of relieving radiation injuries in radiated plants at a distance (Sanayev and Zorina, 1977:80). Nikolai Sochevanov (1980) in Moscow observed a response of a plant to a "drastic" stimulation of another plant by an electric shock or burn at a distance of up to 800 meters. In the 1970s and 1980s, Sergey Speransky (1983, 1990) from Novosibirsk demonstrated "anomalous" communication between two groups of white mice. Distant synchronization of changes in animal electroencephalograms was observed by researchers in Simferopol (Makeyev, Volvovskaya, and Rebezova, 1975:319). A study conducted in Novosibirsk back in the late 1960s discovered communication between rabbits at a distance of up to 7 km (Perov, 1984).

These findings emphasize a more profound meaning in the worldviews of native people who "practice, and believe in, a kind of telepathy between people, animals and plants; indeed between all elements of creation" (Mills, 1982:37). They also remind us of interconnection between different dimensions in our own lives--logical and intuitive, scientific and spiritual. By perceiving these dimensions not as opposite but complementary, we restore balance and richness to our lives. In accepting transpersonal view of reality, it is important to remind ourselves from time to time: "You are all included as part of All That Is... The ONE" (Black and Black, 1992:26).

I am grateful to all my friends and colleagues in Russia and the United States who have supported me in my quest. In particular, I deeply appreciate the assistance of Charlotte Berney, Dr. Yuri S. Dolin, Dr. Ruth-Inge Heinze, Dr. Edwin C. May, and Dr. Marilyn Schlitz.

1. A version of this paper was presented at the 10th International Conference on the Study of Shamanism and Alternate Modes of Healing, San Rafael, CA, September 5, 1993.

2. Personal communication from Ivan Sokolov, St. Petersburg, April 1993.

Basilov, Vladimir N. Izbranniki Dukhov [The Chosen of the Spirits]. Moscow: Politizdat, 1984 (in Russian).

Black, Judith, & Black, Barry A. Living in Joy, Love, and Awareness ... All Are One. Wimberley, TX: Rock of Ages Learning Foundation, 1992.

Braud, William G., & Schlitz, Marylin J. "Consciousness interaction with remote biological systems: Anomalous intentionally effects," Subtle Energies, 2(1), 1991:1-46.

Chernoschekov, Konstantin A., & Lepekhin, Alexei V. "Identical character of effects of geomagnetic perturbations and human operators on variability of enterobacteria," Sverkhslabyye Vzaimodeistviia v Tekhnike, Prirode i Obshchestve [Ultraweak Interactions in Technology, Nature, and Society], Abstracts of papers. Moscow: A.S. Popov Scientific and Technological Society of Radio Engineering, Electronics, and Communications, 1993, pp. 22-24 (in Russian).

Czaplicka, M.A. Aboriginal Siberia. Oxford, England: Claredon Press, 1914.

Dolin, Yuri S., Davydov, Vladimir A., Morozova, Elvira V., & Shumov, Dmitry Ye. "Studies of a remote mental effect on plants with electrophysiological recording," Proceedings of the 36th Annual Convention of the Parapsychological Association, Toronto, Canada, August 1993, pp. 41-56.

Dolin, Yuri S., Dymov, Victor I., & Khatchenkov, Nikolai N. "Preliminary study of a human operator's remote effect on the psychophysiological state of another individual with EEG recording," Proceedings of the 36th Annual Convention of the Parapsychological Association, Toronto, Canada, August 1993, pp. 24-40.

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posted on Aug, 27 2002 @ 10:57 PM
Toltec - are you familiar with The Amazing Randi?

He's tested some of those claims. I tend to believe his tests.

I'm not a total skeptic; I'm aware of some good research on prayer/meditation and its effects. I'm also familiar with the non-success of the American remote viewing training project, which never got enough useful information to support its continued funding.

I hadn't heard of any Mayan sound technology, though I'm familiar with the principles of healing sounds and the Tibetan singing bowls (I've used them in meditation tapes I made for friends) , chakras, music therapy, and so forth. The Mayan cultural aspects I'm familar with are strictly from archaeological papers and books.

posted on Aug, 28 2002 @ 08:59 PM
LOL Byrd but as you are aware my name is not Randi.....

When I first arrived at the other ATS board I took the liberty of posting a link I found several years ago in regard to matter of sound technology (applied by the Mayan culture). The phenomenon described is todate apparent, a trip to Mexico will establish that beyond any doubt. Please review the 2nd, 3rd and 4th post at this thread. It does include legitimate research applied to this phenomenon. As well are aspects of this phenomenon applied today in modern construction (as the posts explain)

Byrd you and I have conversed on numerous occasions, todate have no complaints as to the type of discourse. As far as RV they did spend a recorded 30 million on the project during desert storm and congress did investigate. As I understand it, the press was ready to pounce on this one (As soon as Congress let loose the thumbs down). But rather than go after the Republican administration of the day (strangely) the project was quietly laid to rest and at present, is no longer officially sanctioned by the US. Nonetheless there was no attempt on the part of congress to sanction the military or the administration for there decision (which say's nothing about the private companies which have attempted to profit from this matter, despite what some
claim). My understanding was that the project focussed on identifying the location of SCUD missile sites. It apparently held it own against those who more than likely considered the project ideal fodder, to affect the then Republican Administration.

After your review of the site provided let me know here. We will then get into the issue of potentials (so to speak). This in relation to legends I have been exposed to. In regard to the matter at hand. in regard to the link titled "ancient cities," I am aware of goings on (to some extent) in Arizona, but that legend is 33,000 years old.

Talk to you soon Byrd, your objective response is what I am expecting and as always do appreciate.

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