Sometimes bad people do bad things

originally posted by: elysiumfire
LesMisanthrope:

There is a whole host of things that make it evil.

By what criteria are the 'host of things' defined as evil? I can agree they are evil in a humanistic sense, but not in a metaphysical one. We ourselves can determine that such and such an act, or such and such a thought is evil, but evil only by the imposition of our mind and thinking. We determine if a thing is evil or not. It has no independent existential objectivity outside of our own moral relativism.

No, i wouldn’t say it is metaphysical, more likely biological and evolutionary, but in the sense it has been deemed tried and true by generations, and placed against the grindstone of free inquiry and speech, it has proven to be an adequate adjective to describe certain behaviours.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: introvert

I think that there are truly evil/bad/wrong people.

Not everyone can be as wonderful as me.

See.

See how easily people can justify their beliefs in their own mind?

Good and evil are subjective.

True.

Any one of us posting can be an evil psychopath.

How do we determine who isn't?

How can you determine who is good or evil when we cannot even provide an universally-accepted definition of evil?

Maybe that's part of what's wrong in our culture.

No one can agree what is evil.

And we shouldn't agree. "Evil" doesn't mean anything in regards to right or wrong, or even the law.

Evil is a religious and emotional term that has no place in a logical or rational discussion.

Evil works better as an adjective rather than a noun. It isn’t a person place or thing and it is a mistake to even frame the discussion around the word as such. Rather, “what is evil” has been defined by tradition and custom, the collective wisdom of generations, which in democratic societies means through a process of trial and error.

What’s irrational and illogical and subjective is to dismiss it based on a whim.

It’s not subjective. A subjective view of evil would entail calling it meaningless and dismissing it outright.

The word "evil" means nothing in regards to reality.

Can you state any law in which the level of evil can be measured and applied to the act a person committed?

No I cannot, and I’m not sure why I would have to. If laws dictate your sense of evil, I have to wonder how you’d behave if the laws were to disappear tomorrow.

I have no "sense of evil", as it is a subjective term and no basis in reality.

Laws could disappear tomorrow and things would remain the same.

"Evil" is a religious and emotional term, as well.

It is not a subjective term and does have a basis in reality for the exact reasons I mentioned.

Words are defined by usage and semantic change. Though it has religious influence, the concept has been largely unanimous among religion and philosophy, and has been reasoned about for centuries, millennia. It is false that it is strictly religious and emotional.

LesMisanthrope:

No, I wouldn't say it is metaphysical, more likely biological and evolutionary, but in the sense it has been deemed tried and true by generations, and placed against the grindstone of free inquiry and speech, it has proven to be an adequate adjective to describe certain behaviours.

Yeah, I'll go with that, particularly the last clause of your statement. I think it is important to not ascribe external forces as the cause of whatever we term as being evil. Human behaviour, regardless of how good and kind, or hateful and cruel, can be described as either 'angelic' or 'demonic in one sense, in only that the behaviour is being described in metaphysical terms to understand its application against the consequences to people. One's belief system will predicate the adjectives one uses to define human behaviours.

With Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, it is looking like a picture is slowly starting to emerge of his mindset. His behaviour towards his girlfriend, the way the curtains at their house were (seemingly) always closed, they way that they didn't socialise much with the local community, although Danley did on occasions, and the fact that Paddock had been proscribed Diazepam (also known as Valium) as an anti-anxiety depressant months before the attack, and the way he amassed an arsenal of weapons, seems to point towards the onset of paranoid schizophrenia as the underlying cause for his motive?

Paddock it seems was battling his own metaphorical demons, and ultimately lost out to them.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Deaf Alien

I think the problem is determining what is considered evil. Morals in general are highly subjective.

That's the contention, isn't it? It all seems relative. And we do not truly know what "evil" is, if it even exists.

Then perhaps you're asking the wrong question. It's not about good and evil. I would instead say that it's about conformity vs noncomformity. What you're conforming to in this case is societies rules.

When people become disenfranchised with the system they lash out. Some do it in the form of mass shootings, and some take their frustrations out in other ways, but it's all quite destructive.

I don't think it's evil, I think that excuse is on par with saying the person was possessed by a demon, it's nonsense. To the people doing these things, what they're doing makes perfect sense. They want to hurt society the same way they've been hurt.

So the question you need to ask is how did society fail them? The answer I've come up with to that, is that people are losing their place. Immigrants are seeing xenophobia, WASP's are seeing minority rights, and the recognition of other religions, and so on. It's basically the fact that our society is becoming less tolerant of racism, sexism, and bigotry, so people no longer see themselves as above a group... instead of being something special they're just another one of the common rabble. Throw in a healthy dose of economic pressure where wages are trending downwards and automation is making people feel obsolete, and it's not hard to understand how people feel like they don't belong.

It's the same feelings that has given rise to groups like ISIS.

I hate to break it to you all, but there are bad, evil people in this world. They want too hurt, kill,, maim, cheat, steal, lie.

That simply isn't true! If everything is a false flag / staged event with crisis actors etc.. how could there possibly be people who actually are crazy and just kill people with guns? Impossible I say!

My own experience is just as DB says. One example - my sister married a bad person when she was 24, and he 25. He had red flags, but was European, had an accent, was a traveler, and was rich. They had fun, but there were red flags. He got worse, and once they had kids, the physical abuse started. She thought of escaping.

He hit my sister twice, and then hit the children (and choked one). He had plenty of money (they were millionaires for a while with stocks). They had international travel, to Club Med, and lovely housing. Then, I would hear about arguing, and how their daughter would pee herself in school, and then the truth slowly came out. My sister escaped Europe on plane with her kids, as she would have lost all to him while there.

He has gotten infinitely worse since. No court, no power, no common sense has helped him see anything. Even his grown kids, who he still tries to bribe with money, are seeing what an evil person he is. One of his new girlfriends contacted my sister (was easy to find out who sister is) asking how to escape him. He had taken over her own business in short time, and was trying to use money to control her.

He's evil, and broken, and will pass that way one day. Not fixable, not changeable. Just broken. I'm not saying people never change, as they do, but some people are definitely broken, and not to be fixed, by their choice. I don't think he would physically do what Paddock did, but his mind could be seen as worse, based on what I've read of Paddock. My guy would mess with your mind more than daily, and love every minute of it, and say it was all your fault.

a reply to: kaylaluv
Hey, let us keep these guns and we'll let you disband the prisons ok? I agree, that is the biggest tax payer subsidy behind agriculture. A good deal of them will be disciplined proper without the safety of iron bars and walls. May be a better thing for society after all ...

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: DBCowboy

The relativists have made it so that we do not know what is good and evil anymore.

I know what is evil when I see it. What is good is harder to see these days because of all the evil people. Not many bad people per 1000 people but when you are in a place with hundreds of millions the # of incidents goes up.

originally posted by: ausername
Sometimes good people do bad things because they've been made to believe they have no other choice.

Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction...

1000 stars for this post. AND, sometimes fiction is easier to believe.......

That is why one must be careful and use as much discernment as possible. Not taking most everything you hear to heart but not closing the door to the possibilities until it is certain.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
Brown guy? "Deport them ALL!!!"

Black guy? "It's this gang culture! We need LAW and ORDER!"

White guy? "Well SOMETIMES people are crazy. Let's not jump to conclusions..."

Every.

Single.

TIME.

Well he sure was a liberal....... So there is that part where in a lot of peoples eyes, you have to be crazy to be one of those. So far we are close to if not batting 1000 with the white 'devil's being liberals. Conservative people just kill their lovers or their lovers other. Moderates probably more than Libs are mad because we are tired of both sides being asses not that i hate you guys at all, i am not evil. I do find as I get older I have conservatives leanings but as a youth I was sure a D.. Saw them for who they are and left! I won't be coming back and the R's are on borrowed time.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Metallicus

Sometimes Deaf Alien has his moments of brilliance.

Agreed, i read his stuff with enthusiasm because I want to be on his side..... alas not always, or often but DA is ok by me.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Hazardous1408

I believe in free thought. I believe one can be a psychopath, can think the most evil of thoughts, can say the most vile and disgusting things, and so long as he refuses to act on his thoughts and impulses and words—behaves good—he can be good.

It is kind to not kill thy neighbor.

Just keep your dirty thoughts to yourself and we can live with you for sure. Double meaning to be taken literally .

Les in the end, that is spot on once again.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: DBCowboy

Bad people do bad things. That is for sure. But I'm not one that gets in to that "good vs evil" mumbo jumbo.

I remember a speech William Cooper once gave in which he says, in a nutshell, that it is wrong to label people as "evil" because it does not precipitate a reasonable, logical discussion on these sorts of issues.

Bad people can often see in their minds as their actions being reasonably justified. They rationalize what they are doing or what they are about to do as being the right thing to do to cure a perceived problem or injustice.

The ends justify the means.

Gonna have to disagree with this. Cooper is generally considered a freakin nut and I LIKE conspiracy discussions. I am not saying because he is generally dismissed he is dead wrong. It doesn't mean there isn't anything there with him, i will admit. But is he quotable?

They are LOUD ,messy and rude,,,

a reply to: ausername
As a Christian, I believe that it is wrong to be reading the eye for an eye Old Testament to people in this spiteful manner that just drives people away. Jesus' only thing to say about the laws of the land were obey them. God's vengeance will be God's and not man's, is as Jesus taught.

or even better,

DON"T play GOD!!

a reply to: ausername

Wow. That's just...I have no words. Unbelievable.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Ok.

I'm all ears.

Give me your solutions.

Lay it on me.

AMERICAN Communism.

Stop fighting each other and start fighting those whose keep us divided and slaving our lives away.

That style of government that has slaughtered more of it's own people than all the wars combined? I will pass.