Sometimes bad people do bad things

originally posted by: Rikku

How does the word "evil " remove intelligent dialogue? Please explain that to me?

'evil' is a vague religious term, science and psychiatry can explain it quite well, using vague concepts from old books does i think remove intelligent dialogue.

No. It is a word, it even has a definition and everything!
www.merriam-webster.com...

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Liquesence

Good and evil.

Right and wrong.

Moral absolutes. They do exist.

What is the ultimate good and what is the ultimate evil? Where are the boundaries? Who decides that?

You want to play the relativism game?

If you don't want to discuss that's ok. I'm just asking you since you claimed that there are absolutes.

a reply to: introvert

Right or wrong, good and bad...we can universally agree on, but good or evil is subjective.

'
I just want to tell you what I see wrong with that and we can let it go
if you like. What you are really removing from the discussion in my view
is this. If this guy is a lone gunman and the media is on the up and up
then I guess we can say this was all carried out by a very bad man.

But if you think it's unintelligent for me to consider that he might be
a patsy? Based on everything we all have seen or heard in the media?
I have to say you are wrong. Because if he is a patsy then there ius
no more appropriate word for that than evil.

So if you wish to limit peoples thinking process to only what the media
is saying. Then start with media first. They sensationalize the word more
than anyone. See evil is only subjective in a religeous connotation.
But the whole world uses it descriptively.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: introvert

No. If Joey steals a car for a joy ride, it is morally wrong, illegal, and punishable.

However, if hackers break into a system stealing the identity and personal information doing irreparable harm financially and psychologically to millions of innocent people, that is evil.

As I said, you know it when you see it.

Other than the means in which the "property" is stolen and the degree that it affects people, what is the difference?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: introvert

I think that there are truly evil/bad/wrong people.

Not everyone can be as wonderful as me.

See.

See how easily people can justify their beliefs in their own mind?

Good and evil are subjective.

True.

Any one of us posting can be an evil psychopath.

How do we determine who isn't?

How can you determine who is good or evil when we cannot even provide an universally-accepted definition of evil?

Maybe that's part of what's wrong in our culture.

No one can agree what is evil.

And we shouldn't agree. "Evil" doesn't mean anything in regards to right or wrong, or even the law.

Evil is a religious and emotional term that has no place in a logical or rational discussion.

a reply to: randyvs

I just want to tell you what I see wrong with that and we can let it go if you like. What you are really removing from the discussion in my view is this. If this guy is a lone gunman and the media is on the up and up then I guess we can say this was all carried out by a very bad man. But if you think it's unintelligent for me to consider that he might be a patsy? Based on everything we all have seen or heard in the media? I have to say you are wrong. Because if he is a patsy then there ius no more appropriate word for that than evil.

It seems you are confusing evil for gullibility.

So if you wish to limit peoples thinking process to only what the media is saying. Then start with media first. They sensationalize the word more than anyone. See evil is only subjective in a religeous connotation. But the whole world uses it descriptively.

The media has nothing to do with this.

a reply to: introvert

Evil is subjective, but only if you consider yourself, "good".

originally posted by: DBCowboy
My son asked me why this happened. I could have blamed guns, gun culture, society, politics, the fluoride in the water.

I WISH SOMETHING like that was the root of the problem.

But I explained that sometimes people are just wired wrong. Their thinking is wrong. Their moral center is wrong.

They may act nice, say nice things and be indistinguishable to anyone else in public.

But they are bad. They are wrong. Some people are just evil.

I don't think so. There's a few people like that, like Ted Bundy, but many others aren't pure evil. It's a sequence of events in their life that make them snap.

I think that the biggest issue is that people become radicalized for a cause, we all have this potential within us, and the exact cause matters little. Someone simply suffers event after event that takes away their sense of self and soon the only thing they're able to do is lash out at society. Some lash out with mass shootings, others lash out in different ways but it all stems from the same root issue.

I think that it mostly has to do with social change, these events are most often correlated to areas where the social structures are undergoing change. In the west we have gays getting rights, women rising above men, men no longer being the main incomes, racial divides, and then there's the various economic pressures at play across basically the entire demographic.

All of that leads to instability. As far as I can tell, that's why mass shootings are rising.

So that's a long way of getting to the question: How do we fix it?

I don't really have an answer to that, making people feel as though they have a place in the world is the best way to create stability. But in a world where there's not enough jobs for people, and we have 1 and maybe 2 generations now who were woefully undereducated trying to get jobs in the modern job market, people are losing their feeling of having a place in the world.

a reply to: introvert

I would say that the intention combined with the level of harm adds a level of evilness to the dirty deeds.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: introvert

Evil is subjective, but only if you consider yourself, "good".

Exactly. Look at how many people carry out "evil" acts, and yet they can justify it in their mind as committing an act of ultimate "good".

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Liquesence

Good and evil.

Right and wrong.

Moral absolutes. They do exist.

What is the ultimate good and what is the ultimate evil? Where are the boundaries? Who decides that?

You want to play the relativism game?

If you don't want to discuss that's ok. I'm just asking you since you claimed that there are absolutes.

OK.

Tell me something you think might be universally recognized as bad/wrong/evil.

DBCowboy :

Sometimes, bad people do bad things.

Actually, all people do bad things, but to call people 'evil' is a step too metaphysical to support your thinking. For instance ISIS do bad things to other people. Some of the bad things they do is often termed evil, but from an ISIS supporter's mind it is a 'good' thing done.

The issue is not about people being evil, but about the rationale of their mindset, it is about the absence of connectivity on an empathetic level to others by which bad things are done. It took 64 years before Stephen Paddock finally turned on his fellow man, was he evil or was his mindset skewed by something that happened to him? For 63 years Paddock was considered a decent human being, so what turned him to enable him to commit the act he did?

If a person is truly evil, can we say they are responsible for the things they do? Why are they evil? People hold all manner of traits towards others, and in paradoxical and contradictory ways. In their person they can display both cruelty and kindness in equal measure to the same person. It has been reported that some democrat supporters callously made derogatory statements about the people Paddock killed, simply because they viewed them as republicans. The words used were just as debilitating as the bullets fired by Paddock. Are they evil people, or simply callous through a cruel mindset? No doubt, they kiss their children at bedtime and wish them a good night.

People do bad things to other people because mankind is deeply polarised ideologically. With such divisions, a skewed mindset can rationalise any act upon anyone.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: introvert

I would say that the intention combined with the level of harm adds a level of evilness to the dirty deeds.

I can agree.

A person that steals food to feed their family is not evil, yet a person that steals another persons identity is "evil" to you, even if their intent may be the same.

Or am I mistaken?

Do you see how the term is inappropriate and subjective?

a reply to: introvert

The media has nothing to do with this.

Just when I thought we were having some intelligent dialogue.

originally posted by: ketsuko
But I don't think a lot of people have every learned who they really are or what it means to love that person. If you can't love who you are, how can you love someone else?

It's not hard. The only person in the world that I hate is myself, and I don't mean that to sound edgy. I have nothing but contempt for who I am.

I have no problem with random people, why would I? I can easily accept them, simply because they aren't me. Putting others first comes pretty naturally.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: introvert

Evil is subjective, but only if you consider yourself, "good".

Exactly. Look at how many people carry out "evil" acts, and yet they can justify it in their mind as committing an act of ultimate "good".

No matter how they justify it within their own heads, evil bad people will do bad things against innocent people.

And they do know it.

It's just that they want to harm people.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: introvert

The media has nothing to do with this.

Just when I thought we were having some intelligent dialogue.

We were, until you brought up the media.

The media has nothing to do with how we, as individuals, discuss the topic at hand.

Unless you form your own opinion through how the media shapes specific terms.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: introvert

Evil is subjective, but only if you consider yourself, "good".

Exactly. Look at how many people carry out "evil" acts, and yet they can justify it in their mind as committing an act of ultimate "good".

No matter how they justify it within their own heads, evil bad people will do bad things against innocent people.

And they do know it.

It's just that they want to harm people.

How do you know they want to harm people for the sake of harming people?

Perhaps they see their actions as serving a greater good and the ends justify the means.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Liquesence

Good and evil.

Right and wrong.

Moral absolutes. They do exist.

What is the ultimate good and what is the ultimate evil? Where are the boundaries? Who decides that?

You want to play the relativism game?

If you don't want to discuss that's ok. I'm just asking you since you claimed that there are absolutes.

OK.

Tell me something you think might be universally recognized as bad/wrong/evil.

That is why I am asking you since you brought it up.
What make a thing "evil"? Many Christians think homosexuality is "evil", something that is on par with stealing and murder, all of which are against God.
You, as a Christian, decide to use the Bible to draw the line and define evil. Others do not believe in the Bible so that makes your "definition" pointless.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Lots of folks on ATS just can't accept the fact that there are bad/crazy/twisted/sick people in the world, and that bad people do bad things. The statement that sometimes there's nothing you can do is spot on. Not unless you've got the secret for pre-crime Minority Report type policing and just haven't bothered to share it with the rest of us.

I don't accept that they started that way. Something in their life twisted them. And most can actually recover it seems. We see groups around the world deradicalize all the time, usually through improving their quality of life, and regaining a place in the world.

People that do these things aren't lost causes. They're the result of mistakes we've made as a society, and they continue to lash out beacuse we haven't corrected those mistakes.