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Guitarist who played in Las Vegas changes views on gun control

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posted on Oct, 4 2017 @ 08:37 PM
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bigfatfurrytexan:

I don't think i can even reply to this. You are obviously not my "brain", and do not know what PTSD is.


I know full well what PTSD is...it's a debilitating symptom of being unable to both assimilate and integrate a high stress and trauma experience to within limits so that one can function normally in one's daily life.

I've noticed many American posters do what you attempted to do with me during a debate, they claim a superiority (particularly in knowledge) where none exists by assuming the other person knows not what they are talking about. You can't have PTSD without being over-stressed, and to be over-stressed, you have to undergo direct experience of of a high stress event.

The guitarist (as you claim) is not speaking out of PTSD, but out of direct experience. Perhaps the following might make you pause in making pithy statements...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Perhaps, it is time (actually, well over due) that American gun owners acted in the most responsible way they ever could, and voluntarily hand in their weapons to the police, or at the least hand in all their weapons save 1 handgun for them self and their family's defence. Anyone who arms themselves with a small arsenal of weapons is not right in the head...seriously, they are not!


edit on 4/10/17 by elysiumfire because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:21 AM
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Triple.
edit on 5-10-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:21 AM
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Triple.

edit on 5-10-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:21 AM
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I wished he and others had gotten woke much earlier, but better now than never.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:24 AM
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When are we going to crack down on car violence? All these VIOLENT cars running people over and all.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:37 AM
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originally posted by: Kromlech
When are we going to crack down on car violence? All these VIOLENT cars running people over and all.






Just for a moment try and and allow another perspective.

You argument there has a few holes, cars are designed for driving and racing they are not designed to kill, yes they can kill, but that is not their purpose. Like a spoon I could kill you with a spoon that doesn't mean spoons are designed to kill.

Guns are designed to kill and only to kill, you will often hear the term "do not pull out a weapon if you don't intend on using it" .

Semi auto and automatic weapons are designed to spray large amounts of bullets with the intent of killing as many people as possible within firing range, these weapons are constantly updated to fire more bullets for longer and faster all with minimal breakdown/overheating.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:43 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Kromlech
When are we going to crack down on car violence? All these VIOLENT cars running people over and all.






Just for a moment try and and allow another perspective.

You argument there has a few holes, cars are designed for driving and racing they are not designed to kill, yes they can kill, but that is not their purpose. Like a spoon I could kill you with a spoon that doesn't mean spoons are designed to kill.

Guns are designed to kill and only to kill, you will often hear the term "do not pull out a weapon if you don't intend on using it" .

Semi auto and automatic weapons are designed to spray large amounts of bullets with the intent of killing as many people as possible within firing range, these weapons are constantly updated to fire more bullets for longer and faster all with minimal breakdown/overheating.



And guns are also designed and used for self-defense -- hence the Second Amendment. Bad driver behind the wheel = bad things happen. Bad gunman behind the trigger = bad things happen. Obviously a people problem.
edit on 5-10-2017 by Kromlech because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:58 AM
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a reply to: Kromlech

Of course its a people problem, Some people are units and as we have seen are capable of inflicting great pain on others, these high powered weapons just make it easier to kill and that's the point ...easier = bad


I was just hoping you might see a little grey in the black and white argument that breaks down each and every time.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

This is what they want....ive never really shared an opinion on gun control one way or another but it's like there trying to make a point by saying"look even someone with no clear problems can go crazy and start killing people."So the only way we can protect you is by taking away all your guns.they smell the revolution coming and are trying to head it off.ill save the rest of my rant for the next mass shooting in another populated city!!WAKE UP PEOPLE......PLEASE



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: Iscool

Only a "moron' thinks gun control in Chicago mean sweet f all when there is no gun control outside of Chicago..right? is there a wall around Chicago? is there a border check at the gates of Chicago?
Think about what you say before throwing "moron" around in context of Chicago.

Not arguing for or against.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: elysiumfire
bigfatfurrytexan:

I don't think i can even reply to this. You are obviously not my "brain", and do not know what PTSD is.


I know full well what PTSD is...it's a debilitating symptom of being unable to both assimilate and integrate a high stress and trauma experience to within limits so that one can function normally in one's daily life.

I've noticed many American posters do what you attempted to do with me during a debate, they claim a superiority (particularly in knowledge) where none exists by assuming the other person knows not what they are talking about. You can't have PTSD without being over-stressed, and to be over-stressed, you have to undergo direct experience of of a high stress event.

The guitarist (as you claim) is not speaking out of PTSD, but out of direct experience. Perhaps the following might make you pause in making pithy statements...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Perhaps, it is time (actually, well over due) that American gun owners acted in the most responsible way they ever could, and voluntarily hand in their weapons to the police, or at the least hand in all their weapons save 1 handgun for them self and their family's defence. Anyone who arms themselves with a small arsenal of weapons is not right in the head...seriously, they are not!



He is speaking out of the high emotion that comes right after that high stress experience.

The experience was a traumatic one. I'd bet he had some nightmares along the way. While I am no clinician, it is by no stretch unheard of that people who live through these events suffer from post traumatic stress. I lived through a refinery exploding 1/4 mile from my house, and had post traumatic stress that lasted for years. Nothing major, but if there was a large rumble or loud car drive by, it would cause some pretty gnarly anxiety. No one was shooting at me, my life wasn't in jeopardy.

www.scientificamerican.com...


Not only is trauma insufficient to trigger PTSD symptoms, it is also not necessary. Although by definition clinicians cannot diagnose PTSD in the absence of trauma, recent work suggests that the disorder’s telltale symptom pattern can emerge from stressors that do not involve bodily peril. In 2008 psychologist Gerald M. Rosen of the University of Washington and one of us (Lilienfeld) reviewed data demonstrating that significant PTSD symptoms can follow emotional upheavals resulting from divorce, significant employment difficulties or loss of a close friendship.


I don't presume a superior knowledge to you or anyone. I only assumed it when you dismissed what I was saying without any further explanation.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Just a quick thought. Giving that a gun ban was put in place for the USA. Who is going to disarm all of the the gangs first? For example Chicago and Detroit gang violence is through the roof. So do the law abiding citizens give up their gun before known gangs are forced to do the same?



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:23 PM
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I was in full support of the "Hearing Protection Act 2017", but after the Vegas massacre...I'm dead-set against the passage of this bill in the U.S. Congress. Fortunately...the passage of the bill is growing dimmer in Congress

Would have the tally of shooting victims increased if the Vegas massacre shooter had used suppressors; him being about 400 yards away in a motel, overlooking a amplified music concert in progress? I think it would...and it would have made it harder to pinpoint the shooter's location.

Though I'm still at a quandary, about the sale of bump fire stocks in the U.S., because a trained shooter can shoot as fast (with a semi auto rifle without using the bump fire trigger finger method) as a bump fire stocked cyclic rate, but an untrained shooter can equal that rate with a bump fire stock. So I've decided that bump fire stocks should be banned to the sale of the public --- Even though people can bump fire without a bump fire stock.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Shamrock6

When do you need badly need an AR?

This statement is so moronic...
So I should take my .22 squirrel killer when I hear the dog barking at something in the dark?

Pass!

I'm using extreme prejudice when it comes to my safety and the safety of those I care for. You cross the line you meet Gladys...



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 06:16 PM
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France has the strictest gun control in Europe.
7 January 2015 Charlie Hebdo Attack. killed 12 people and injured 11 others.
13 November 2015 Paris Terror Rampage killed 130 people including 89 at the Bataclan theatre.
Another 413 people were injured, almost 100 seriously
14 July 2016 Nice Attack killed 86 people and the injury of 458 others. Used truck AND firearm.
Tell us again how gun control works.



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 07:47 PM
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delete double post
edit on 5-10-2017 by TheScale because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2017 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: elysiumfire
bigfatfurrytexan:

I don't think i can even reply to this. You are obviously not my "brain", and do not know what PTSD is.


I know full well what PTSD is...it's a debilitating symptom of being unable to both assimilate and integrate a high stress and trauma experience to within limits so that one can function normally in one's daily life.

I've noticed many American posters do what you attempted to do with me during a debate, they claim a superiority (particularly in knowledge) where none exists by assuming the other person knows not what they are talking about. You can't have PTSD without being over-stressed, and to be over-stressed, you have to undergo direct experience of of a high stress event.

The guitarist (as you claim) is not speaking out of PTSD, but out of direct experience. Perhaps the following might make you pause in making pithy statements...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Perhaps, it is time (actually, well over due) that American gun owners acted in the most responsible way they ever could, and voluntarily hand in their weapons to the police, or at the least hand in all their weapons save 1 handgun for them self and their family's defence. Anyone who arms themselves with a small arsenal of weapons is not right in the head...seriously, they are not!



its not the weapon or gun that makes it easy to kill, its human intelligence and our capacity to come up with a plethora of horrific ways to deal out carnage on our fellow man. plenty of documentation on this going back thousands of years. weve really made progress actually. it used to be tyrants that would go in and wipe out whole cities and towns or entire civilizations. one thing that never changes is mans ability to inflict pain on their fellow man
edit on 5-10-2017 by TheScale because: edit



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 09:35 AM
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This conversation comes up a lot and I have come to the conclusion that Americans seem to feel that:

(A) The Government is looking to use the military to come onto the streets and surpress the civilian population.

Why? What kind of nation do you have where you think your own Govt is likely to do this?

(B) Having the population own guns can stop the Govt taking control.

So you seriously think that owning an arsenal of weapons would stop the Govt if they wanted to take you out? Ever

heard of drones? You'd know nothing about it.

(C) Gangs and bad people have guns so the population needs guns

Don't you think it would be a good start to try and reduce guns anyway, rather than live in fear?

You had thousands of people at the concert and a gun didn't help them defend themselves.
How many atrocities have been stopped by civilians with guns?

(D) Other things kill too, so don't ban guns.

We are talking about an object which is solely designed to injure and kill. Cars etc are designed to help us as a

society. Comparing them is ridiculous and the weakest of arguments.


(E) While you have some of the highest gun crime on Earth, it's not guns causing the problem but people. Who own guns.

Surely regulating who has guns and how many they need is sensible? Why do people need to have such weapons as

were used in Las Vegas? Because it is a right? Why do you want that as a right????

(F) It is their right to have a gun and ANY restrictions on that is very bad.

This actually speaks volumes, both at how safe you view your society and how you need to have a weapon to feel strong or protected, either against your govt or other people.

(G) Time and time again American's call their country the greatest nation on Earth. "USA, USA, USA".

This is why people from other countries get bewildered by this statement. Your track record so far is:

(a) terrible healthcare
(b) you've elected 1 x Actor, 1 x Reality Show Host and a father and son whose IQ is less than a pigeon.
(c) you feel the need to have guns to protect yourself from your own people and govt and finally
(d) no matter how many mass murders you have by people with high powered guns, you STILL don't want any type of
gun ban, even though other countries who have had it, have FAR less gun crime than you do.

I'm sorry, it's like you don't want to see sense. Keep your guns I guess. Keep your fear of your fellow citizens and govt. Keep feeling like you need to have a gun/s to feel safe. If you really honestly can't see that there is a correlation between the amount of guns you have and the amount of gun crime you have...I don't think anyone can help you. Keep on living in fear, keep banging on about it's your right to have a gun like a toddler with toy and keep on putting your heads in the sand and ignoring all the other countries who DON'T have anywhere near your problems with gun related murders. I'll just look up the amount of mass killings which have been made with other objects and see how they compare with your gun crime.. funnily enough, I'm going to bet that you can kill more people, more quickly with a gun than you can with a knife or bat.

USA..USA..USA..



posted on Oct, 6 2017 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: bluesilver
This conversation comes up a lot and I have come to the conclusion that Americans seem to feel that:

(A) The Government is looking to use the military to come onto the streets and surpress the civilian population.

Why? What kind of nation do you have where you think your own Govt is likely to do this?


Clearly you are not a student of history.



(B) Having the population own guns can stop the Govt taking control.

So you seriously think that owning an arsenal of weapons would stop the Govt if they wanted to take you out? Ever heard of drones? You'd know nothing about it.


Drone operators have to sleep, drones need repair. Military and former military who know how drones work would defect to the citizen's side.

Look at 4th generation warfare.



(C) Gangs and bad people have guns so the population needs guns. Don't you think it would be a good start to try and reduce guns anyway, rather than live in fear?


Who lives in fear? Less than 0.005 percent of the U.S. population dies in gun violence every year.



You had thousands of people at the concert and a gun didn't help them defend themselves. How many atrocities have been stopped by civilians with guns?


Because a concealed handgun, which is a solely defensive weapon, is by far the best choice to take on a rifleman from an elevated concealed position almost 1/4 mile away....

Plenty of crimes are stopped every day by armed citizens, the majority of the time without a shot fired. Without a shot fired, there is often no report made, so you never hear about it.



(D) Other things kill too, so don't ban guns. We are talking about an object which is solely designed to injure and kill. Cars etc are designed to help us as a society. Comparing them is ridiculous and the weakest of arguments.


I believe the comparision between inanimate objects is more to illustrate that it's the person operating the inanimate object who determines how it is used.



(E) While you have some of the highest gun crime on Earth, it's not guns causing the problem but people. Who own guns. Surely regulating who has guns and how many they need is sensible? Why do people need to have such weapons as were used in Las Vegas? Because it is a right? Why do you want that as a right????


Guns are highly regulated, regardless of what the talking heads in the idiot box say.

I have the right to defend myself via the means commonly available. If I could be assured that the criminals and Government didn't have guns, and were restricted to sharp pointed sticks, I would give up my guns. Until then, we're at an impasse.



(F) It is their right to have a gun and ANY restrictions on that is very bad. This actually speaks volumes, both at how safe you view your society and how you need to have a weapon to feel strong or protected, either against your govt or other people.


Study gun laws in the U.S., the 2A has already been infringed a good bit. So my 89 yo grandmother is supposed to use her fists or a sharp-pointed stick to defend herself from younger male criminals? Guns allow equal force to be used for self-defense.



(G) Time and time again American's call their country the greatest nation on Earth. "USA, USA, USA".

( snip)...


Thank you for your opinion from afar. No need to come and visit.



posted on Oct, 7 2017 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: bluesilver


Anything controlled remotely is vulnerable to protocol/physical exploitation and RF jamming.

Our government isn't the enemy, but the second amendment is as much an exercise in deterrence as anything can be, in that respect. Not just against a future & purely hypothetical tyrannical government, but also in defense of other miscellaneous subversive elements. With such a widely armed population, any attempt to subvert or overthrow the Constitution or lawfully installed government would likely result in unacceptable damages to the offending party.

One only needs to look to the lessons learned by guerilla fighters for defeating a much larger and technologically superior adversary. Only in such a hypothetical scenario, it is the pro-American/pro-Constitution side that would have all the numbers.

Once again, our current government is doing a phenomenal job protecting the Constitution and civil rights as enumerated by the greatest document on Earth: the Constitution of the United States of America.




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