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Americans Hopeful This Will Be Last Mass Shooting Before They Stop On Their Own For No Reason

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posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: [post=22727312]
It would be fair to say millions of law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the deeds of one nutjob.


How is not allowing a regular citizen carry a weapon be considered as a punishment?


Or is mass shootings (and gun violence) now just part of our daily lives? Just another daily occurrence we have to live with?


Yes.


You can't outlaw guns. That's against our Constitution.

Next.


Yes you can. That's why it's called an Amendment.


OK, in theory you can.

But it won't happen. I know that I won't turn in any guns. I don't think many will. In fact, i'd expect several state governments to try to over rule the amendment with state level legislation, and we would be back to fighting over states rights again.



What's the estimate of firearms currently in the hands of Americans? 350 million or so with a 10-15 million unit add every year.

Might as well just stand still, close our eyes and wish them all away -- that'd be just as effective.


Or how about opening up legal action against gun manufacturers? Is there any reason 20 folks should be wealthier than god and use that money to perpetuate this madness than at least letting some of the victims share in the wealth generated by this heinous bloodshed?


You just ran and took a leap off the edge of the current discussion as far as I'm concerned.


Thankfully I'm not worried about your concern in this regard, though in almost all other situations I am 100% in support of your opinions.




posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: [post=22727312]
It would be fair to say millions of law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the deeds of one nutjob.


How is not allowing a regular citizen carry a weapon be considered as a punishment?


Or is mass shootings (and gun violence) now just part of our daily lives? Just another daily occurrence we have to live with?


Yes.


You can't outlaw guns. That's against our Constitution.

Next.


Yes you can. That's why it's called an Amendment.


OK, in theory you can.

But it won't happen. I know that I won't turn in any guns. I don't think many will. In fact, i'd expect several state governments to try to over rule the amendment with state level legislation, and we would be back to fighting over states rights again.



What's the estimate of firearms currently in the hands of Americans? 350 million or so with a 10-15 million unit add every year.

Might as well just stand still, close our eyes and wish them all away -- that'd be just as effective.


Or how about opening up legal action against gun manufacturers? Is there any reason 20 folks should be wealthier than god and use that money to perpetuate this madness than at least letting some of the victims share in the wealth generated by this heinous bloodshed?


You just ran and took a leap off the edge of the current discussion as far as I'm concerned.


Thankfully I'm not worried about your concern in this regard, though in almost all other situations I am 100% in support of your opinions.


Opinions are just opinions. If you're not worried about my concerns, why are we attempting to converse? Your previous statement that I rather roughly categorized had nothing to do with our previous conversation.

It's not a matter of whether we agree or disagree in general, is it?



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: Gaspode

The discussion about gun control is already going strong as with every other mass shooting's aftermath. It will also die down in a week or two.


I wonder what we would be doing if he hit the crowd of 22,000 with a loaded dump truck doing 60? It is also sad every weekend in Chicago is a mass shooting/killing as a norm too and the left says nothing about that, in a place where guns are basically illegal.

The problem is you can't stop a person from killing and they will find a way no matter what. Outlaw everything and you will not stop people who have full intent to kill.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Because we enjoy each others discourse. However, if you are going to dismiss it outright I'm not going to let it affect me negatively, since my thoughts on the matter still stand. If you would prefer to respond to my posts with a substantive response as to why you disagree I would have more to discuss vis-a-vis your concern therein.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

So people walking into schools, churches, movie theaters, etc. are a regular occurrence in many other countries? Developed countries?
Asking for a friend.

See, your tone shows that you glanced at the opening post and saw "gun control" and up came the knee. Completely missed the point, which I tried to reiterate several times throughout the thread.

And perhaps proved a point I didn't intend on making?

The point was: Gun control is always the central issue when this happens, but this only causes division. So, what other solutions are there? Which is the perfect opportunity for any gun owner and supporter of the right to own guns, like yourself, to step up to the plate and present a solution that doesn't involve gun control. But alas opportunity missed. Just another "you don't know know nothing!" post lost in the crowd.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: Gaspode

I think the first step is to define terms and prioritize. What does "gun control" really mean? That can mean everything from the government banning and criminalizing guns, to using both hands to shoot it, all depending on who you ask. And given the very negative connotations and implications of "control" in anything, just the idea is going to get people on the defensive. And rightfully so. "Control" should not be the priority in a free society. And I'm sorry but my mind is blank in trying to come up with an alternative word... "compromise" is now a dirty word, so I don't want to go there. But I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at.

And, in terms of priorities and prioritizing, as I pointed out earlier, do we want to stop people using guns to kill? Or do we want people to stop killing other people? Murder is the problem... the gun is just the means. And why is murder a problem? Because we all have an absolute inalienable God-given natural right to life. And we have an absolute inalienable God-given natural right to protect and defend and nurture and sustain that life, which is the foundation for our right to bear arms. So our solutions must respect and uphold those basic natural rights.

In terms of gun rights and what specific arms we should have, we can start by differentiating between defensive and offensive weapons. No one needs a bomb to defend and protect themselves -- so by all means make bombs illegal. But a handgun for a woman's purse or a shotgun for the home, etc., is reasonable. I know there is far more to it, but the place to start is with a solid foundation of first principles.

But it has to go beyond that. Why do people kill? Let's start with lead poisoning... and the public officials responsible for maintaining safe water supplies but DON'T. Let's look at the property owners/landlords who refuse to de-contaminate their rental homes... and the public officials who let them get away with it. They can rationalize it all they want, but the end result is the same. If we want to stop murders, as opposed to just stop murders with guns, then we have to get rid of the lead. Period.

Then there's psychoactive drugs. Which is part and parcel of the larger problem of crony capitalism and Big Pharma, putting profit before people, and corporate entitlements before our absolute inalienable Natural Rights. The most glaring example is cannabis. We will never know how much damage has been done to humanity as a whole because a natural non-lethal God-given healing plant was criminalized... and dangerous psychoactive pharmaceuticals were given out like candy with little to no oversight. And both for the same reason: For massive profit for the few at the expense of many.

When Columbine happened, I was working for a children's behavioral health center, with both in-patients and out-patients. There were certain drugs that the doctors would not prescribe unless the patient was an in-patient and they could closely monitor the patient for adverse reactions, including suicidal and homicidal ideation. Including one of the drugs prescribed to one of the shooters (or both? I don't remember now). This isn't to say that the Columbine boys should have been smoking pot... but there's a good chance if they had been just smoking pot instead of doing dangerous psychiatric drugs that Columbine never would have happened. Not to make light of it all, but they probably would have been sitting in the basement playing video games and munching on Doritos instead.

Corporations do not have rights. They have government granted privileges and entitlements. We have an absolute inalienable right to life, and the right to nurture and nurse that life as we see fit. But government control forces us to obtain our healthcare from certain people, and those certain people are forced to provide only that healthcare given the government seal of approval, and too often that health care is anything but. And all in the name of government protecting us because we're too stooopid to do for ourselves.

And all this is the tip of the iceberg, but this is what I mean by the need to re-prioritize according to a solid foundation of first principles.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:20 AM
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I'm an American, and I'm absolutely sick and tired of the gun violence in this nation.

People are right about mental health, though. You know what's sad?

People who were shot have to use gofundme to pay for their #ing hospital bills because of how expensive healthcare is in America.

I'm just tired of it. Nothing will be done about it, I really just want to leave the country.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: Gaspode

No, I read your post, hence me citing one of the last statements that you made in it where you don't want us to talk about gun control, yet cite it multiple times in your OP. This thread is now full of comments and discussion on gun control--maybe it is you who communicated poorly, not us who lack the reading comprehension.

Just because you want to wave your hand and dismiss my comments doesn't make my points less valid. I specifically responded to your comment about a "middle ground," citing that we already exist in the middle ground and that the laws that took us there still don't do much to inhibit this kind of animalistic, illegal behavior by some people in our society.

You chose to not address those comments.

I listed all of the already-existing laws that the shooter disregarded by committing his atrocities.

You chose to not address those comments.

I called you out on your dismissive attitude (which could be a subjective interpretation, admittedly) and alluded to the history of the second amendment and why it exists.

You chose to not address those comments.

Instead, you start your response with a false equivocation (other countries have nothing to do with my comments or my argument), you whine about my "tone" instead of responding and discussing the points that I made, and then you proceed to say that since I didn't respond with an answer that you seek, that I missed an opportunity and that my comment can be boiled down to "you don't know nothing."

You don't want a serious discussion. I tried, and you only heard what you chose to hear instead of what was actually written. I'm wasting my time in this thread.

Best regards.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
I still say we should make it harder for mentally ill people to get guns.


Until you get some jerkwad who convinces the majority that either yours, or my, political belief is a mental illness.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: RomeByFire

I hear you! I'm fantasizing about retiring on the island of Ikaria, Greece. Where people live blissfully to age 100.


www.greektravel.com...



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:48 AM
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Driving a car isn't an enshrined, written-in-stone Constitutional right - possession of firearms is. Further, since when has anyone in this country been under the illusion that freedom is free? There is always a cost, and very often it is a human cost.

I think people in this country forget how expensive that having rights really is. However, in my personal opinion, no cost is too high to preserve our very literal Constitution. We have rights for a reason people, including the right to protect yourself from violence or crime by carrying and possessing a firearm. I, too, realize that my family (or even myself) may become part of that "expense" one day, and I certainly don't relish that fact. But having other's Constitutionally protected rights infringed upon simply because of some psychopath's actions is absolutely disgusting, and borderline diabolical - it cheapens the memory of those who perished in the name of freedom and defending Constitutionally enshrined rights.

The gun control crowd is filled with people used to being losers, so they'll capitalize on any tragedy in order to advance their own begotten agenda. You know, the framers ALMOST didn't create the Bill of Rights. They had discussed amongst themselves that it was redundant, since the government had no right to limit the Constitution to begin with. However, those ten amendments were considered SO IMPORTANT, SO VITAL to our freedom that they were included anyway.

I am unsure how many others I speak for, but you can have my firearms/suppressors/NFA SBRs when you pry them from my cold, dead hands. Until then? Any discussion to the contrary is unacceptable, and will be met with an automatic "no."

How dare the left attempt to exploit the death of American citizens? How dare the enablers of the left go along with their diabolical plot? I think many of you forget which country we're living in. This isn't communist USSR, "all for one - some fatcat dictator," but the United States of America! Where your personal freedom, success and protection are 100% your personal responsibility.

I ask you one simple question. How am I to protect myself and my family, since that is solely my family's responsibility, without advanced offensive hardware? The answer is easy: you can't. Therefore the gun control debate is absolutely meaningless.

It would be great, however, if the left would stop standing on the backs of the victims in order to promote their own communist-like agenda. Haven't you people learned anything from history? A gun grab NEVER works, it doesn't stop violence (look at the UK and other gun free dictatorships) and universally leads to draconian police state type governments.

Sorry, but that's one power I refuse to delegate to the government. I'll take my chances, and continue to properly assume responsibility for my own safety and well being.
edit on 10/3/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: JBurns

I am unsure how many others I speak for, but you can have my firearms/suppressors/NFA SBRs when you pry them from my cold, dead hands. Until then? Any discussion to the contrary is unacceptable, and will be met with an automatic "no."


Just so I'm clear, if a terrorist shows up and kidnaps your family and threatens to kill them all unless you give up your guns, you would say 'so long fam, nice knowing ya'?



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Gaspode
a reply to: joemoe

True - man is evil. Been like that since the beginning of time.

But I find it hard to believe that the human race is intelligent enough to land a satellite on a moving comet, create technology that allows us to have the world's information in the palm of our hands, cure smallpox, prevent an Ebola outbreak of Armageddon proportions, but not smart enough to prevent 600 people from being shot by one man?

Setting aside that point, and we focus just on the issue of this (rampage shootings) being a major issue in the USA.

Some Statistics

Summed up by this:


Isn't it time to look at 1. why mass shootings like this are so prevalent in the USA and 2. what can be learned from countries where this is a non-issue?


Good idea but they'll never do it because the gun lobby is afraid, and or the deep state doesn't want to stop their activities.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Sadly, yes. You cannot negotiate with terrorists, otherwise they win. Besides, do you really believe they'd keep their word? Its much more likely they would simply return and kill me as well, knowing I was now unarmed - like a good little victim should be. I highly doubt they'd be successful, though. I have about ~$60,000.00 worth of LEGAL NFA military weaponry.

But to answer your question, yes, my family and I recognize the cost of living in a truly free society. It would be heartbreaking and the worst day of my life, but there is no other option. I enjoy every second I spend with my loved ones, and always try to stay right with god. If that unfortunate time comes, I will die defending my life/my family/innocent people/our nation, knowing I did everything I could to stop it. Sometimes good men lose, but you only fail when you allow those who seek radical change to actually achieve their goals.

Don't you think terrorists and criminal psychopaths would love to see our rights stripped away because of their actions? Do you have any idea how much this would embolden them? A couple hundred deaths a year and Americans are ready to start tearing up the Constitution! What happens when they succeed at an even bigger act, do we simply fly the white flag over the White House?

Hell no. These colors don't run: the red, white and blue stands for something greater than any one of us. It is the idea, the living demonstration that freedom and constitutional democracy cannot be defeated, that it will never waiver and that we will ALWAYS rise above the adversity and stand together to defend our future.

edit on 10/3/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:56 AM
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Most of the laws already in place didn't stop this guy, and many of the proposed measures over the years, like universal background checks, wouldn't have stopped this guy either since he was apparently clean.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 11:58 AM
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Woah

600 people were not all injured by direct hits. You don't believe any were trampled, or otherwise received in-direct injuries from this? Granted, the murderous asshole is STILL responsible for the injuries, but not all were directly caused by a high speed projectile.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 12:00 PM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

Precisely the reason why anything further would put innocent gun owners at risk of losing their enshrined and literal #2A rights. You can't legislate problems like this away.

What you can do, however, is protect yourself and support laws that drastically punish ANY violent crimes to include crimes committed with deadly weapons (including firearms, knives, explosives, cars, acid, etc). Laws are supposed to punish criminal behavior, not prevent it. Who ever got this silly idea in the first place?



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Im curious...why do we always see "homicide by firearm" as if that is a relevant stat.

The relevant stat is homocide. It matters now how you kill someone. To pick out guns is simply choosing one method over another.

I wonder if the people of Nice would like to see killings using a vehicle instead of a gun, since they lost 85 in one swoop last year by someone with a truck and a grudge.

Imagine what could have been done with a pocket full of ball bearings and one of these:



I've punched 1/2" steel ball bearings through a 55gal drum full of burned trash from about 100 yards. I don't know how far it went. But my dad punched through 1/3" plate steel at about 50 yards with the same ball bearings.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Willtell

Im curious...why do we always see "homicide by firearm" as if that is a relevant stat.

The relevant stat is homocide. It matters now how you kill someone. To pick out guns is simply choosing one method over another.

I wonder if the people of Nice would like to see killings using a vehicle instead of a gun, since they lost 85 in one swoop last year by someone with a truck and a grudge.

Imagine what could have been done with a pocket full of ball bearings and one of these:



I've punched 1/2" steel ball bearings through a 55gal drum full of burned trash from about 100 yards. I don't know how far it went. But my dad punched through 1/3" plate steel at about 50 yards with the same ball bearings.


Replying with this post because it couldn't be more accurate. Amazing how there aren't protests and 18 hour sit-ins for all of the vehicular deaths, alcohol/cig deaths or even the many victims of heart disease/obesity. How can you exploitative, condescending leftists even look at yourselves in the mirror? I'm truly flabbergasted at the left's continually attempt to take advantage of innocent deaths for their own failed political purposes.

This is exactly why the Democrat party is finished. After 2018, I am sure all of the progressives and communists they've absorbed will have torn them apart from the inside-out. It will be the rest of our job to ensure their nonsense doesn't spread to the rest of this beautiful nation. I mean, seriously, doesn't anyone find it odd that the party of communists support gun grabbing? They know full well how easy it is to make/acquire illegal weapons, and would simply do so to victimize the freshly-unarmed right... errrrm, I'm sorry "Nazis" as they call everyone that doesn't agree with them.

These individuals realize their agenda will never succeed with the largest population of American loving patriots being armed to the hilt.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: [post=22727312]
It would be fair to say millions of law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the deeds of one nutjob.


How is not allowing a regular citizen carry a weapon be considered as a punishment?


Or is mass shootings (and gun violence) now just part of our daily lives? Just another daily occurrence we have to live with?


Yes.


You can't outlaw guns. That's against our Constitution.

Next.

I believe the constitution and particularly the second amendment is in dire need of some amendment. Just a wee tweek here and there. The founding fathers could not have forseen the weapons of today.

A mass shooting in the late seventeen hundreds by a lone individual would have been, what? 3 maybe four people dead at most considering the time it takes to load fire and reload a musket, but on the other hand, and i'm trying hard to be fair here.

The right to bear arms meant that each and every individual should have the same weapons as the next guy, Governments included. It Didn't read 'The right to bear Hammers and other blunt objects against muskets and canon fire.

Governments all around the world no longer just have conventional police forces, they now have paramilitary police forces who at their masters bidding will gun you down en masse if and when the order is given.

Give up your Guns and the only right you'll have is one to Die.
edit on 3-10-2017 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



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