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First Good Example for an Assault Rifle Ban???

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posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 05:25 AM
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a reply to: ManCat

Or he could have bought a legal one and have modified it..

I’m pretty sure the kits are legal and only require removing a couple screws.


If every peroson in the crowd is armed, it doesn’t save a single person here.. and this specific case would almost guarantee friendly fire..

He was on the 37th flour and all the sudden gunshots ring out and everyone you see had a gun,.

Good luck withing their being no shots do to misidentification of the terrorist...
edit on 3-10-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 06:06 AM
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originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Its not just the firearm but the planning and intent to kill as many people as possible. He was high up in a tower overlooking an open air, crowded venue, at night...

...the worst of all possible scenarios. Only a really deviant, cold and calculating mind would ever conceive of such a horrible plan.

There is literally nothing more gun legislation would do to control this kind of persons intent.

How hotel security let this many guns into that building at that time and place would be a good place to start.


Actually...with th eright equipment those are perfect conditions to kill alot of people. the man had 3 days to set up. im surprised he didnt smuggle in a mini gun or a refurbished mg-42

Obviously he had 'clout' there, was trusted yo go anywhere in the hotel without arousing suspicion. The media is covering that part up, the powers that be would be exposed for their 'ties' to corruption in Vegas.

What we saw was the tip of the iceberg of a deeper conflict inside the gaming industry.

.o2



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 06:15 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

So is this the first legit example where an assault rifle did more damage than more conventional guns could do???



The problem in the Las Vegas attack is much deeper than the tools used. This wasn't an impromptu attack. It was planned to cause large scale death and injury. If he didn't have access to firearms then he would have planned differently and instead of a shooting we would have seen something else.

Remember, the Nice attack in 2016 resulted in 86 people killed and 458 people wounded - all that took was a madman with a truck at the wrong time and place.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 06:24 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Or he could have bought a legal one and have modified it..

I’m pretty sure the kits are legal and only require removing a couple screws.



You cannot legally modify a semi-automatic rifle to fire as a fully automatic. That will get you in BIG trouble.

There are some contraptions like bump-fire stocks that use recoil to assist trigger pull and simulate full-auto fire, but they aren't actually full-auto. I have no issue with the idea of restricting these, as they only serve the purpose of circumventing the NFA.

I do agree with you that concealed carriers would have been totally ineffective in this case. The only thing that might have stopped this guy would have been if the security had been armed with rifles.
edit on 3-10-2017 by vor78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:06 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: sapien82

So then we should allow people to have bazookas and C4 then right???


You can. For the bazooka it's actually a similar process to buying a machine gun - with all the expensive and delay as well.

Explosives such as C4 are a bit more complex but they can be obtained.

It always come back to the same thing - the people who are able and prepared to acquire it legally are infinitesimally less likely to use it in crime. Part of this is because the process for making these devices is painfully simple compared to the process of getting them legally, so the people who want to do bad things aren't going to waste tens of thousands of dollars and a year of their life when they could make it in their own garage. Yes, even C4 - or something functionally close enough to do the same job.

For less than the cost of legally acquiring a machine gun that has been beaten hard for the last 40 years, you could set up a nice little home workshop and churn out as many new ones as you want.

Heck, just go and have a look at pictures of John Browning's workshop. This guy still managed to build some of the most iconic firearms of the century, including the M2 machine gun.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:23 AM
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originally posted by: Painterz
The UK successfully banned almost all guns following the Dunblane mass shooting.

Just saying. It can be done if a Nation has the will to do it.


And yet we continue to have people getting shot on a regular basis with illegal firearms, including full-auto.

Dunblane would also have been prevented by the existing protocols being followed, because Hamilton should not have held a firearms license.

Banning is easy. Enforcing it is the problem. The UK's rate of firearms crime has increased since the ban. Even on this tiny little island, bad guys get guns.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:26 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

I don’t think your right on the fire arm crime increasing...

Unless it is some propaganda agent who is not adjusting g for population increases..

All crime in the West has been steadily declining for decades.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:27 AM
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originally posted by: Abysha

Are people calling semi automatic rifles "assault rifles"? If so, no wonder it's such a confusing debate.


Yes. It's not accidental.

"He who controls the language, controls the masses." - Saul Alinskey, Rules for Radicals.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

Talk about shifting the argument.. that is as apples to oranges an argument as possible..

I meant buy a bazooka Without a special license, obviously.... just like we do with fire arms. Where if you have no felony. You get to have one..


I think we all can agree that would be a disaster...


The most anti gun elected official has only ever put forth requiring licenseibg for all guns.

You know , because people willing to take classes and apply for a licesnse is usually less likely to kill someone.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

How many people do you know able to make a working assault rifle from scratch????


.000001% of the population...
edit on 3-10-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:39 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: EvillerBob

How many people do you know able to. Hold a working assault rifle from scratch????


.000001% of the population...


Personally, I know 5. I also know a torpedo manufacturer and dozens of folks that own "bazookas". Most uses CNC machining and lathes and have a high level of engineering in their background. Plenty more than .000001% of the population falls in this category.

It's really not that hard with machinery, engineering and tolerance knowledge. With CNC machines it is even fairly quick and easily reproducible as all parts are computer programmed then sent through and usually laser cut for weapons, though I have seen waterjet cut as well. Likely you personally, if you had the funds, could buy a CNC and download the CAD for whatever rifle you wanted to build and with a bit of time have a working model with little knowledge of the design side itself. Of course you'd have to know a bit about tolerances and deburring but those are quickly learned.
edit on 10/3/17 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox
wow just wow. i see the anti gun peope jumping at the bit. first those guns were full automatic machine guns not the semiauto rifles you find at walmart and don't believe the media where they are speulation that these were modified weapons.a machine gun like an m-60 or a saw are designed with heavier barrels so you can fire in sustained bursts if you could fire a regular rifle it WOULD QUICKLY OVERHEAT BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE TO FIRE AT THAT RATE. also i do not think this was the work of one man



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:48 AM
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posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:55 AM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Some of this discussion drives me nuts!

Define an "assault rifle"???

You can't. There is no such thing as a firearm which is deemed solely an 'assault rifle'. There is no one characteristic which defines an assault rifle over any other rifle. An assault rifle is any rifle used in an 'assault'. Nothing more, nothing less. A BB gun can be an assault rifle, as can a .600 Nitro Express...and everything in between.

The term "assault rifle" is a term invented by the anti-gun lobby in an attempt to ban firearms they deem to be dangerous (which is all of them). It is nothing more than an attempt to incrementally encroach on, and ban, firearms ownership in this country.



I agree with your sentiment but you are completely wrong in the technicalities.

The name "assault rifle" came from the fact that the very first version of what we would know consider an "assault rifle" was the Sturmgewehr 44 - "Sturmgewehr" was translated as, surprisingly enough, "assault rifle". It's more literally "storm rifle", but "storm" in this context means "to assault", as in "to storm a castle".

Some of the defining features involved moving to an intermediate cartridge (ie, smaller than the battle rifles but larger than the submachine guns) and select-fire (capable of full-auto). The point of this was to allow assaulting troops to bring high volumes of fire that were effective out to at least 300m (it was found that most engagements were within this distance, which is where existing submachine guns were lacking) while remaining easy to use (because recoil from more powerful cartridges made full-auto difficult to handle) and light enough to move quickly (because the more powerful rifles were heavier and more awkward). This is what makes an assault rifle an "assault rifle".

Full auto is absolutely part of what makes an assault rifle, but the term (and proper meaning) is not a recent invention. Labeling everything as an assault rifle, however, is a more recent trend.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:57 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Fine.001%..

I’m assuming you specifically run in gun making circles.. or your just lying, because I have lived in Miss. my whole life with half my family hunting every season (crossbow and muzzleloader too) and I have only ever met one or 2. Unless your counting assembling prefabricated parts..

Almost none of the population can manufacture ANYTHING , let alone something semi complicated..



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:58 AM
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The issue is that America is unique in this regard. There are currently only three countries in the world that have a right to carry/own firearms in their constitutions (the US, Mexico and Guatemala), and we are the only country in which that right is, at least in the Constitution, noted without restrictions. (ForeignPolicy.com)

We are unique in the world because of this. Americans have more firearms than any other country. Really, it is only logical that we will have more deaths both intentional and accidental from firearms.

However, like it or not, pro-or-con, this is simply part of being Americans. It is fairly clear that, while I would agree personally that the context of the Second was limited at the time, the Right to Carry is as fundamental and basic to our way of life as Freedom of Speech, Press, Religion and Assembly.

And before anyone goes there, I am as familiar as any of you with the Heller decision, and the principle that our rights are not unlimited. However, it is also a fact that when we start screwing with each others rights using the power of the state, we are treading down a very slippery slope.

We're going to have to deal with the problems a different way besides merely trying to legislate it out of existence.

edit on 3-10-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Link



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 08:01 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob
What is the functional value of regular citizens owning assault rifles??



They allow you to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time, but a hand or shotgun works better for defense and hunting...

So kinda like with a bazooka. The only societal value they have is in entertainment.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 08:04 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: EvillerBob

How many people do you know able to make a working assault rifle from scratch????


.000001% of the population...


With modern resources in terms of tools and equipment that you can buy off the shelf, and access to the internet?

I reckon 87% of the people on ATS could succeed. Well, if they could be bothered, and that's really the key.

What fraction of the world's population speaks Finnish? Does that mean that no one else can learn Finnish?



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 08:08 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Fine.001%..

I’m assuming you specifically run in gun making circles.. or your just lying, because I have lived in Miss. my whole life with half my family hunting every season (crossbow and muzzleloader too) and I have only ever met one or 2. Unless your counting assembling prefabricated parts..

Almost none of the population can manufacture ANYTHING , let alone something semi complicated..


LOL...Miss? As in Mississippi? Oddly, that is where 3 of them reside. As well as the torpedo manufacturer and most of the owners of "bazookas" I know. It also happens to be a hub for weapons coatings used by most of our elite military operations, coatings for many of our aircraft parts, and plenty of other things. I lived there for 10 years. And no, I don't run in gun making circles. I do know plenty of LEO's there and participated in numerous shoots with them and class 3 weapons.

I could set up a CNC machine in your garage, download the program schematic, and have you press the start button and you could make one. The only complicated part is programming the CAD for it, but even that can be learned in a fairly short time if only looking to build one specific item.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

If it were up to me all the firearms in the world would be banned , confiscated and melted down.

But I do not live in America so I cant comment on how gun control should work there.

If I was a mad genius Id invent nano machines that actively seek out all weapons and turn them into piles of dust, so that any weapon made will be reduced to carbon ash and no one in the world will own a gun or firearm and never will again

In the UK we have strict gun control and we havent had any mass shootings in a while, just the occasional terror act



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