Vegas, sound of the gunfire seems off

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
I have fired both a full auto AK and a bump stock one. In full auto mode, it's damned tough to keep the weapon centered on any target unless the person has arms like a body builder. I can say that I personally could only hold the trigger for less than 3 seconds per burst. Other than that I'd be shooting the sky.

It's also far faster between rounds than what I have heard on the recordings that have been available so far.

Sounds exactly like an AK with a bump stock. Easily available. Easy to target and continuously fire round after round. The time in between "the bump" gives you enough of a break in between rounds to keep the weapon pointed in the right direction.

My 2 cents..

Fred..

I'm a big guy and yes there is muzzle rise when firing an automatic however it is still manageable. People who have no experience with autos are used to leaning into the gun when they fire one bullet and forget you need to keep that same aggressive lean the entire time to control muzzle rise..Most people fall forward whey they exhausted the magazine from leaning forward...

However the cycling of the rounds leads me to think it was some sort of bump stock or trigger mod...A lot of time guns with those mods tend to jam as the bolt movement and limp style of the firing cycle required to shoot so fast cause cycling issues....That could explain the ling pauses between firing.

sounded right to me, reminded me of Iraq honestly , which is not something you want to hear stateside at a concert....you can hear the snap of the rounds hitting, which turns my stomach because some of them were into people......one of which was a friend of mine, whose in surgery as we speak...

This makes me see red honestly......

originally posted by: TexasTruth
Ok, this is not a "gun debate" thread but a gun sound debate topic.
Waking up and seeing the videos and hearing the gunfire was unsettling. But instantly I was drawn to the sound of the gunfire.
That does not sound like a typical full auto to me. It sounds more like a bump stock and suppressor which are both legal.
It's one of those things your typical anti gun people have no clue about. The bump stock has a stock that is spring loaded and makes the gun bounce from the recoil. You hold your finger in the trigger guard and bam! Every shot recoils and fires it again.
I will have to look it up, but their is new legislation on suppressors right now in congress. The claim of nobody being shot by a gun with a suppressor will have dramatically just gone out the window while bringing attention to bump stocks if I am correct.
Let's hear it! What do the gun people say? Maybe someone more tech savvy and not on a phone can put some sound bites together.

I thought it sounded fully automatic. No way you could fire a semi automatic that fast? Maybe there's a good video with the difference around?

a reply to: GuidedKill

Yep, it's manageable, I'm also a larger guy, and still had issues. After an hour firing it, (and several hundred rounds later) I was exhausted. We will have to wait and see if he had experience in firing the weapons or not.

Either way, to me, it doesn't sound fast enough for full auto, but that's just my take on it.

Found a video with better sound. Does sound like it is a automatic. Using 30 round and/or drum mags. As for not seeing muzzle flashes the cameras just not picking it up or he was possibly using flash hiders. Just my 2 cents.

Youtube

originally posted by: Oklastatefan

Found a video with better sound. Does sound like it is a automatic. Using 30 round and/or drum mags. As for not seeing muzzle flashes the cameras just not picking it up or he was possibly using flash hiders. Just my 2 cents.

Can you link the video?

a reply to: GuidedKill

Sorry forgot to post the video

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Nothing about it makes sense. I doubt he was calm enough to make precise shots or to even think that way. Sounds like a maniac shooting in mania. I don't know anything about guns but it has been reported he was found with 10 rifles.

originally posted by: Oklastatefan

Found a video with better sound. Does sound like it is a automatic. Using 30 round and/or drum mags. As for not seeing muzzle flashes the cameras just not picking it up or he was possibly using flash hiders. Just my 2 cents.

That particular video is a AK for sure.. You can tell by the clacka clakca per round cycle....Although that sounded more like a fully automatic I am still skeptical and think it's probably going to be a bump stock or trigger mod of some sort.


Time will tell. TY for vid link.

Okay, I've now listened to several different versions. That was either an extremely good bump stock, but I'm now leaning towards fully auto.

Hearing that there was so much smoke in his room that the automatic fire alarm went off. Would that kind of ammo produce that kind of smoke? I have heard that most ammo like that now uses smokeless powder.

One other thing I heard on a video earlier was a semi-auto after he blows through a mag. Sounded like a different caliber.
If he in fact used a suppressor for muzzle flash, CNN and MSNBC will let us know about it every 5 or 10 minutes. Same with the bump stock.
Something is very odd here with the reports on this white male, in his 60's, living in a retirement community, with nobody knowing he had a thing for guns. His reload time was terrible too, thankfully. If he planned this then how does he miss so many easy tricks? Fast Mags? I mean, he did pull off a horrific event that he hopefully pays for eternally, but even with the ISIS idiots, it could easily have been so much worse.

originally posted by: twogunrenegade
Honest opinion, completely outside the box... could be a belt fed gun? The crackling and inconsistent feed sure sounds like an old belt fed machine gun. Could explain the large gaps in firing also. We'll never know the true story, I know listening minutes after the first shots were fired to the police scanner it was mayhem and chaos. I'm just wondering how the police so quickly found his room, I listened to the cop who was in deep panic as he made his way to the 32nd floor and heard the detonation of what seems to be a flash bag device when they entered. I swore though shots were still being fired after they gained entry to his room. My thoughts and prayers are with all those who endured such a tragic event, and to the brave citizens and all police, fire and first responders who put their lives on the line to end this horrific attack.

The gunsmoke set off the fire alarms. So the hotel knew which room had a problem. Don't some weapons keep firing even when the trigger is released.

this was posted in the mega thread about 30 mins ago, think it was a combination of light and flash suppressor why it wasn't seen in most videos.

Zytryx

a reply to: queenofswords

there is usually some smoke, it's not truly smokeless. also depend on the projectile jacketed or lead. jacketed need no lubrication, lead does. lube burns.

In the last couple of posts, we studied the manufacturing techniques of black powder. In this post, we will study the next development of propellants, namely smokeless powders. First, let's get a couple of common misconceptions out of the way:

1. There is no single smokeless powder. Instead, the term applies to a number of different powders, all made of different ingredients.
2. Smokeless powders are not truly smokeless. It is true that during combustion, most smokeless powders burn up most of their mass into gaseous products, unlike black powder, which leaves behind 55% of its weight as solid residue. However, there is still some smoke produced.
Propellants: Smokeless Powders

Heard on Fox News the police claimed brass for (.)223 and (.)308.

Sorry about the parentheses. Working around a touch keyboard anomaly.

Thanks. That is a good view and sounds like a loud AK. I only wish that fella had a .30-06 with a thermal scope and camera instead of just a camera at that moment.
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Thanks for that clarification.

a reply to: TexasTruth

your welcome, i said earlier in this thread that i saw a video with the flashes this isn't the one.
i've been looking for it off and on all day still haven't found it.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
the sound seems correct but why in all the footage of the hotel are there none showing muzzle flash? or any kind of flash for that matter

I cannot bring myself to watch the videos, but most are made with smartphones, yes?

Smartphone cameras are notoriously bad at gathering light as they have super small and relatively sensors - sensor price is a factor in phones.

Everything else being equal, the larger the sensor surface, the better the low light performance, and cell phone cameras typically have a sensor surface 1.8% that of a full frame camera. (And everything else is not equal, consumer and prosumer cameras have sensors generations ahead of that of smartphones.)

At least that is a possible and plausible explanation.

Anyway, my point is that many, most or even all of the videos might have been shot on cameras that are not capable of recording the muzzle flashes from that distance - especially if there is other light sources in the foreground.