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Active Shooter Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay

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posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

A bipod can't work on a "bump fire" stock.

Bump fire depends on inertia of previously fired round against spring in buttstock to cycle entire action of rifle back and forth. It's the back and forth movement that hits shooters trigger finger.

The bipod interferes with the movement and will stop bump fire.

The back and forth movement of 4-6 pounds against heavy springs also makes weapons equipped more a novelty as no one can really aim them specifically to an individual target.

Maybe a loosely fitted bipod might work but then what's the use.




posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Well i learned one thing. I should not respond to you in the future.


Have fun With you Logic.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix

see the videos i posted, a rpk and ar fired in the prone with a bumb stock and bipod. i say seeing is believing. plus they make kits that reduce trigger pull from 7 pounds which is about the average on most ars down to 3.5 and 4 lbs.

now we don't know if he had those in his weapons, but i bet he did.


edit on 13-10-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix


Sure you can bump shoot With a tripod. Would it do him any good is the question.


To shoot With a bump stalk accurate is not a easy task. Useing a tripod With Your bump stalk means you have spent a lot of time on the range getting used to just that set up.


One would not need to be very accurate to hit the kill boks (these spectators), one would just need to be good enough to get most e of the rounds within the kill boks.


edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix

That was one of the questions I asked Houndog but apparently it IS possible and he posted the videos to prove his assertions.
And yet my chum I've been speaking to online says what you say, it alters the shooting mechanics and the momentum.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

You seem good on ballistics theory and explanation,

Going by "bounce" or up, down, left, right movement demonstrated in video of "bumpfire" weapons being fired,

What would be your swag of shot spread at 400 yards also considering the angle.

My guess is something like 100-200 yards when a barrel is moving around like that.

Thoughts?



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: diabloman

Ermm, no clue. I just found his video easy to understand and pretty clear, so I posted it for those of us who were having issues with the sound of the guns, since I could only make out.. omg lots of shots, not specific types of shots.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix

actually i would say that has more to do with the shooter and their ability than figuring dope. plus it's impossible to say with out knowing his point of aim, or if he was he sweeping. but yea i think it would be all over the place.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

It could be surmised that it would be improbable that any shot string - such as "three in a row" would hit within any small area such as 16"X 16" spot at 400+ yardage.

From video and anecdotal commentary that'd be reasonable I think.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix

didn't i say that, in all over the place.
plus if you have sighted in the area, and can see where your rounds are hitting you can adjust your point of aim. gunners do it all the time. except for high shots because you can't see how high it was unless there is something behind your target that will give you a idea where to aim.
i never claimed he was taking well aimed shots only that he knew his data and could adjust his fire.



edit on 13-10-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix


I honestly dont think he could adjust his shooting from that distance. I dont even think he could see where the rounds hit.


Initially the spectators didnt even move. Some prooned. But ther was never a Clear indication on the crowd that someone was hit. And i doubt he could see it. Becasue the lights were not on the spectators initially.

Oberving red mist at 400 yards is not easy, not even With a Scope. Not if you are not exactly on target.

If the shoots hit the fairground randomly. there is no way he could adjust. Not at that distance.

TO calculate how well he aimed is easy. Just take all the shoots fired and compare it With the amount hit. He did hit 558 People, but how many shots did he use to make all them hits?

Not all the shoots were aimed at the spectators. Some were also aimed at the cops along the streets.

To make a long story short. The spectators were shot at from a different location. They were shot at from behind the stage. The gun that was used was mounted on top of the pillars behind the stage. ANd the one shooting that gun was not on site. It was Remote controlled gun. THe gun was probably coverd With blinds so that there would be no flashes.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 04:07 PM
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here's something people might find well interesting.
it's a simulator for the EOTech scope he had on one of his rifles.

here the data on the tech, good up to 500 yds. for ar in .223



and the page,
Holographic Reticle Information

and the simulator, i realize it's nothing more than a crappy 1st person shooter. but it might give people that don't know or haven't seen one under stand. while shooting, move the dots around and play with it some. the is no automatic fire just semi.

HWS Simulator

ETA: if you are fast enough sometimes you can multiple hits on the big target.




edit on 13-10-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-10-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Thank you



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:40 PM
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originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Phoenix


I honestly dont think he could adjust his shooting from that distance. I dont even think he could see where the rounds hit.


Initially the spectators didnt even move. Some prooned. But ther was never a Clear indication on the crowd that someone was hit. And i doubt he could see it. Becasue the lights were not on the spectators initially.

Oberving red mist at 400 yards is not easy, not even With a Scope. Not if you are not exactly on target.

If the shoots hit the fairground randomly. there is no way he could adjust. Not at that distance.

TO calculate how well he aimed is easy. Just take all the shoots fired and compare it With the amount hit. He did hit 558 People, but how many shots did he use to make all them hits?

Not all the shoots were aimed at the spectators. Some were also aimed at the cops along the streets.

To make a long story short. The spectators were shot at from a different location. They were shot at from behind the stage. The gun that was used was mounted on top of the pillars behind the stage. ANd the one shooting that gun was not on site. It was Remote controlled gun. THe gun was probably coverd With blinds so that there would be no flashes.


Regarding your last paragraph, what leads you to believe remote control gun on top of a pillar behind the stage concealed etc.? That's quite specific, and I'm curious what led you to that conclusion, or guess. Just wondering how you worked that out.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:58 PM
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I wonder if they will ever tell us about the ballistics- in the shooter's room and those at the concert site.



posted on Oct, 14 2017 @ 12:47 AM
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a reply to: Sagacity




Regarding your last paragraph, what leads you to believe remote control gun on top of a pillar behind the stage concealed etc.? That's quite specific, and I'm curious what led you to that conclusion, or guess. Just wondering how you worked that out.


You can hear the gun on top of the pillar in at least two instances in this video. The 22 first Seconds it sounds like there is a shooter to the left behind the stage. But if you listen carefully at 00:10 you can hear the gun right behind the stage all the way to the 00:18-20 mark. This gun is the same one you hear at the 09:17 mark. At the 09:17 mark listen to the rate of fire on this gun. Pay attention to how it winds Down and stops. This is not a manually operated gun.

Also pay attention to where the sound is comming from. It is comming from a elevated position on her right as she turns left up the street, you can also see the hotell infront of her. But you can clearly hear that the sounds is comming from her right side. At least the two last rounds.

When she turns to the right up the street you will see the two pillars on her right. These two pillars are right behind the stage on the other side of the street. From the fairgrounds point of view these two pillars would be just to the left of the hotell. THis makes it really hard for the spectators to pin point where the shoots are really comming from. The logical assumtion would be to think it comes from the Hotell.

See this in full screen.




edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2017 @ 01:32 AM
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originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Sagacity




Regarding your last paragraph, what leads you to believe remote control gun on top of a pillar behind the stage concealed etc.? That's quite specific, and I'm curious what led you to that conclusion, or guess. Just wondering how you worked that out.


You can hear the gun on top of the pillar in at least two instances in this video. The 22 first Seconds it sounds like there is a shooter to the left behind the stage. But if you listen carefully at 00:10 you can hear the gun right behind the stage all the way to the 00:18-20 mark. This gun is the same one you hear at the 09:17 mark. At the 09:17 mark listen to the rate of fire on this gun. Pay attention to how it winds Down and stops. This is not a manually operated gun.

Also pay attention to where the sound is comming from. It is comming from a elevated position on her right as she turns left up the street, you can also see the hotell infront of her. But you can clearly hear that the sounds is comming from her right side. At least the two last rounds.

When she turns to the right up the street you will see the two pillars on her right. These two pillars are right behind the stage on the other side of the street. From the fairgrounds point of view these two pillars would be just to the left of the hotell. THis makes it really hard for the spectators to pin point where the shoots are really comming from. The logical assumtion would be to think it comes from the Hotell.

See this in full screen.





I already said a RWS sounds no different to a normal weapon. So how can you claim that is what is heard? Also I have yet to see one that isn't belt fed (which would leave link scattered everywhere..kind of hard to explain). These platforms don't 'wind down' (unless you are suggesting some kind of chain gun or multi barrelled weapon was in use) they start and stop the exact same as a hand held weapon. The difference being they are mounted on a platform. They also weigh a hell of a lot and aren't small. You wouldn't have an easy time removing one from the scene.



posted on Oct, 14 2017 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: hounddoghowlie


If this was a very well planned event. Why would he need to do the calculations on site?


He had rented the room for days, he also stayed at the hotel at least two times a month. Why would he do the calculations on that day?


IF he was not a driven shooter i bet he would have done these calculations beforehand and gone to the range to site in his Scope. And then come back to do the shooting. It makes no sense why he would do this on site on the same day.



How would he be able to figure what the wind would be doing at any particular time in advance? He had an iPad that he could have been checking to add in the wind factor. He could have been doing it for days...to get an average....he was a numbers man. Being a pilot I'm sure he knew where to look for real time wind speed and direction.



posted on Oct, 14 2017 @ 01:51 AM
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a reply to: sg1642


I dont know exactly what kind of weapon system this would be. Its just that the rate of fire was very odd With the last few rounds. And it doesnt sound like manual fire at the end. Its like it is being Wind Down to stop.... dont it sound like that to you?





Also I have yet to see one that isn't belt fed (which would leave link scattered everywhere..kind of hard to explain).


This Depends on the set up of the system and how it is consealed. The other issue is....will the location be investigated?

The system could still be up there and removed later. That is possible if there are no plans to investigate the location.








edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2017 @ 02:15 AM
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a reply to: spy66




I dont know exactly what kind of weapon system this would be. Its just that the rate of fire was very odd With the last few rounds. And it doesnt sound like manual fire at the end. Its like it is being Wind Down to stop.... dont it sound like that to you?


Research trigger actuators. There! You have your answer!

P



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