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Active Shooter Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay

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posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Ok thank you. So it is possible to use a bump stock with a bi-pod if you know what you're doing. Correct? An amateur or non gun person wouldn't know how?

I know this will be stupid question no doubt, but all pictures I've seen of people using bipods are lying down, is that necessary?

Also any clue about the lack of bullet casings in all the pictures?
Thanks




posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

a non gun person i can't say, as for amateur just learning maybe not. shooting like most things requires practice to become effective in your operation of the the weapon. of course any body should be able to pick one up and spray and pray, even using a semi auto pulling the trigger repeatedly.
but paddock was a smart guy according to all accounts, and you can bet he learned how to use his weapons and attachments.

a bipod is for stabilization, you can fire off of anything that you can place it on.

on a wall, on the hood of a vehicle, window sill, anything that can hold them. standing, kneeling, sitting or prone.
some hunters use what looks like two sticks as bipods.


edit on 13-10-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: hounddoghowlie




your just making this up as you go along, what you say is white is high speed blur. the tarp is see thru mess and made from one color nylon. if you look you can see the lights from the other side all the way down the tarp.


Still the projectile never whent through the tarp. And what we see is the fabric being stretched.


It was not a high Power rifle that made that shot we see on the tarp. That shot was from a handgun. Nough said.....

There was more then one weapon used in this shoot out. There was even a mechanical controlled one as well. THat can be clearly heard in one of these videos. The one With the female taxi driver.










Ok man. So, how can you tell that there is a "remote controlled" gun? What's the difference in sound, that you can conclude this from chaotic video footage? And what is your experience in this area?



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 10:33 AM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

a bipod is for stabilization, you can fire off of anything that you can place it on.

on a wall, on the hood of a vehicle, window sill, anything that can hold them. standing, kneeling, sitting or prone.
some hunters use what looks like two sticks as bipods.




I've been bothered by this subject this whole time. Here's my question: at the shooter's elevation, if he's shooting from a horizontal on the floor position, can the bullets hit the crowd? Esoecially if he's using a bipod or whatever. Doesn't he have to aim DOWN, whether he's at the window or back from it? If he's firing from on the floor, back from the window even a little bit, he's going to have to aim down pretty sharply, no? Unless the concert venue is waaaaay father from the hotel than I understand it to be. Seems to me like the only way, from 32 floors up!, that the shooter can hit the crowd is by aiming down, which if he's lying down, can only be done if he is right at the window.

So if we're going with "he was shooting from a position back from the window to avoid the muzzle flash from being seen" theory then he had to have been standing. Right?

And I'm seeing videos of these weapons being fired and MAN do they give off some light! i don't even know if standing back from the windows would hide that. And those floor length curtains, he's going to be limited by their length as to how far back he can stand, because he'll have to have the curtains over his head/behind him because the curtains are all one piece, not individual panels.

This all may be completely irrelevant and maybe already addressed andove forgotten, but I thought I would comment on this(again).
edit on 13-10-2017 by KansasGirl because: Sloppy phone typing



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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This is another thread, but I think it's a good idea to mention it in this mega-thread. There's an interview with the woman who posted a video saying she and her husband were at the Bellagio wjen they heard gunfire and a swarm of people ran into the lobby, along with cops yelling at them to run away from the lobby, and farther back into the hotel.

I don't know why this isn't being discussed. What I find interesting, if true, is that she asks about getting a discount when they check out the next morning, since they were prevented from being in their room for most of the night. In response, the manager wordlessly hands her a receipt showing they aren't being charged for the room.

If this is true, why aren't we talking about this? I would love for folks to watch her interview. It's the first video in the OP in the thread:

Well I can't seem to give a link. Operator error. But it's Smurfy's thread from yesterday, entitled "The Bellagio Hotel Interview"

edit on 13-10-2017 by KansasGirl because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-10-2017 by KansasGirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Again thanks. Final questions sorry lol....I have been told that when using a bipod it adds "resistance" to the firing mechanics? How does that affect shooting the weapon?
That bumpfire stocks work on momentum so would not work as intended on a bipod? Also that when using a bumpfire it should be positioned stationary against the shoulder to steady the barrel and that this adaptation is for area fire not precise shooting?
Is it correct that adding a bumpfire makes the shooting inconsistent and the cyclical rate slow? To the point where it can easily be identified as shooting from an adapted gun?



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: KansasGirl

if you go back you will find that it reported that he figured his windage and elevation, that's what was suppose to be on the note on the coffee/ end table. if i recall correctly the concert was just about 1200 feet from the hotel. that's right at the limit for effective range of a AR which is 400 to 600 meters going by the longest that would be just under 2000 feet. his aim would be high to hit that far off and he didn't really aim as in well placed shots. more like point and shoot not picking out targets, just spraying.

as far as muzzle flash, i can't really explain that. but i swear on monday morning after the shooting on one of the news reports, i know i saw flashes up on the top. the person filming it even pointed his camera or phone at them. i have yet been able to find that video.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

i've never heard that, are you talking about the function of the weapon or the shooter? if shooter i think that maybe it could, but learning how to hold the butt against your shoulder as you saw in the videos that can be overcome. in fact i would say there is a learning curve in any firing position you take with a bump fire. as far as weapon don't think so.
i know the ones that i've fired i had to adjust how i held the rifle. for a while i could hardly get off move than four or five rounds


i've seen people that can fire with one and you could hardly tell they had a bump stock. and i've seen people that that couldn't shoot with one for sh@@. it depends on how much you use it. another thing that comes to mind is if using reloads.
if the load is light or high could cause a problem, and also off brand ammo like some of that russian crap.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

The chap I've been talking to says it makes the weapon inconsistent and slow to cycle? And because of that he can normally tell if a bumpfire stock is being used.

I'm afraid I can only repeat what I've been told as I know zero about guns soz



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Again thanks. Final questions sorry lol....I have been told that when using a bipod it adds "resistance" to the firing mechanics? How does that affect shooting the weapon?
That bumpfire stocks work on momentum so would not work as intended on a bipod? Also that when using a bumpfire it should be positioned stationary against the shoulder to steady the barrel and that this adaptation is for area fire not precise shooting?
Is it correct that adding a bumpfire makes the shooting inconsistent and the cyclical rate slow? To the point where it can easily be identified as shooting from an adapted gun?


You dont really need a bump stalk mounted on a rifle to be able to shoot really fast. Or to get the bump stalk effect.

If Paddock knew how to do this With a tripod. I would say that he is not an amature at all. Because you can get a bomp stalk effek without the bump stalk.

The way to do it is not to press the weapon against Your sholder, you just lightly lean it onto the sholder, and then you Lock Your triggefinger in a static position without pressing the trigger and without grabing the pistolgrip. Then you press the weapon forward With Your other hand so that the trigger touches Your finger, The gun shoots and the buttstalk rebounds of Your sholder. If you keep pressing the weapon forward and keep Your triggerfinger in a static postion. The weapon will bounce of the trigger finger very rapidly.

You would need a few hours on the range to master this.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

it's possible. you can hear it in the videos, once or twice he starts out and it stops, only to pick up in a split second or two, and they are short burst, then when he fires long bursts, you can hear the change in the rate of fire going up or down.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: KansasGirl

if you go back you will find that it reported that he figured his windage and elevation, that's what was suppose to be on the note on the coffee/ end table. if i recall correctly the concert was just about 1200 feet from the hotel. that's right at the limit for effective range of a AR which is 400 to 600 meters going by the longest that would be just under 2000 feet. his aim would be high to hit that far off and he didn't really aim as in well placed shots. more like point and shoot not picking out targets, just spraying.

as far as muzzle flash, i can't really explain that. but i swear on monday morning after the shooting on one of the news reports, i know i saw flashes up on the top. the person filming it even pointed his camera or phone at them. i have yet been able to find that video.



I'm not saying that he was too far away to hit the crowd, I'm saying that he would have to be firing from the window's edge to hit them, to get the right angle. He would have to be pointing the gun down, which he couldn't do if he's firing from a horizontal on-the-floor position. Or did you address that in your reply but I don't understand (very possible)?

This only matters if it's being claimed that he was using a bipod to aim from on the floor. The discussion about bipods made me want to bring this up again.



I also saw a video or two showing bright flashes from that window area that coincided with the sound of the gunfire. Can't find it now either.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: spy66

What's the answer on how you determined we are hearing a remote controlled weapon? I'm curious.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: KansasGirl
a reply to: spy66

What's the answer on how you determined we are hearing a remote controlled weapon? I'm curious.


In this video at 09:18 you can hear the gun. If you listen to how the gun stops shooting. Its like the rate of fire wind Down and comes to a stop. Pay attention to where the sound is comming from because this gun is not located at the hotell. It is to the right of her.

See the video in full screen.


edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: KansasGirl

as i said in my reply to PhyllidaDavenport a bipod can be fired off anything from any of at least four common firing positions. you can also raise or lower your point of aim in those positions some more than others, even in the prone which i think you are calling horizontal although it might be a little more difficult.

and if the reports are true that he had figured his windage and elevation, which is basically figuring your angle no matter what position he was in he could have gotten the rounds out that far without to much difficulty even firing from a high vantage point.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Ahh that's great explains a lot thank you!



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie


If this was a very well planned event. Why would he need to do the calculations on site?


He had rented the room for days, he also stayed at the hotel at least two times a month. Why would he do the calculations on that day?


IF he was not a driven shooter i bet he would have done these calculations beforehand and gone to the range to site in his Scope. And then come back to do the shooting. It makes no sense why he would do this on site on the same day.


edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: KansasGirl

here maybe this will help, remember he had scopes on at least two of his weapons.

Put simply windage is the way to move the bullet impact left or right and elevation is moving the bullet impact up or down. Scope adjustments are made in ‘minute of angle’ increments or MOA. This is a measure of the degrees in a circle. A full 360 degree circle has 21,600 minutes of angle. If you have a scope that shoots 1 MOA at 100 yards, that adjustment increment will only be 1.047 inches. One increment of angle at 200 yards will be equal to 2.094 inches and at 300 yards that same one MOA increment change will be equal to 3.141 inches. Understand that one increment change at 100 yards will change the impact of your round 1.047 inches but at 300 yards it will move it 3.141 inches. Every scope is different so please consult your owner’s manual for your scopes adjustment increments. Let’s use an example to help illustrate my point.
Scopes 101 Part 3: Windage, Elevation and Parallax Adjustment



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: Lilroanie

Where they testing some kind of drone. Not the flying kinds, the kinds that can be easily masqueraded as everyday equipments like spotlights, trees, pillars etc. That would explain sounds from different directions. They might be testing auto aiming, face recognition. Where can we get information on head shots - the total number of head shots or chest shots wounds. Since its a drone, best is to be a belt fed gun.



posted on Oct, 13 2017 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: spy66
did i say that he did it on the fly that night or in advance no i didn't, i said,



if you go back you will find that it reported that he figured his windage and elevation, that's what was suppose to be on the note on the coffee/ end table.

sure he could have done ethier way. and if you did a little research on the note it was said no figures, just points of aim. also there were computers there, his dope could have been on them.

damn you just don't have a clue at all.




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