Active Shooter Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay

a reply to: Krakatoa

He tried to explain the arm a few seconds later.

He apologizes and then says he was trying to use a coloquial term about armed forces. Didn't make sense.

Very sketchy. Busted.

originally posted by: Diabolical1972
a reply to: RomeByFire

You did listen to the interview right? They had no problem traveling, like it was just another for them. He had the means.

Yeah, listened to it either.

The shooting began at 10pm, and Eric was interviewed the next morning (said he woke up to reporters).

I'm not talking about not having the money - don't know why you're getting that out of my post.

If you believe his brother was in Vegas shooting people during the night, and the next morning was on the opposite coast of the country that's your prerogative man.

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: tonycodes

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: tonycodes
If you can fire this many rounds, potentially from different weapons, and not create a muzzle flash i would imagine that would be a major advantage to tactical weapons and would change combat at night dramatically.

I can only speak to my own phone camera, but at night it might not make out the lights at Freemont street never mind a muzzle flash 300 meters away. Haha

Yea but the phones were able to make out the little light reflection on the 4th floor, but not multiple different fully autos firing off? I think the 4th floor is just a reflection but i havent seen ANY footage of muzzle flash from the 32 floor, from different angle and different quality of cameras. i dont know how that makes sense.

LED strobes are brighter than muzzle flashes maybe? I don't know. I spent that entire evening looking for muzzle flashes and didn't see them. Could have been firing from a recessed position which makes it safer from counterfire and less visible. Have we seen the "stations" in the room and where they're set?

That was my thought as well. If the shooting stations were set up back from the window, the flashes would not have been visible from below.

originally posted by: diggindirt

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: tonycodes

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: tonycodes
If you can fire this many rounds, potentially from different weapons, and not create a muzzle flash i would imagine that would be a major advantage to tactical weapons and would change combat at night dramatically.

I can only speak to my own phone camera, but at night it might not make out the lights at Freemont street never mind a muzzle flash 300 meters away. Haha

Yea but the phones were able to make out the little light reflection on the 4th floor, but not multiple different fully autos firing off? I think the 4th floor is just a reflection but i havent seen ANY footage of muzzle flash from the 32 floor, from different angle and different quality of cameras. i dont know how that makes sense.

LED strobes are brighter than muzzle flashes maybe? I don't know. I spent that entire evening looking for muzzle flashes and didn't see them. Could have been firing from a recessed position which makes it safer from counterfire and less visible. Have we seen the "stations" in the room and where they're set?

That was my thought as well. If the shooting stations were set up back from the window, the flashes would not have been visible from below.

yea buy he was on a platform and shooting down at an angle, he couldnt be that far back from the window..and wouldnt the walls in the room make a reflection? oh yea hes this crazy crazy guy, but he can pull this whole thing off, have guns that make no flashes, leave no trace of anything, but hes crazy!! this motive doesnt make sense to me, it wasnt a sloppy operation considering the final result.

After spending 36hrs reading non stop till my eyes bled, I am curious as to others' take on the fact that he checked himself into a hotel where he was very well known, made no attempt to disguise or hide the fact he was there, ordered room service and generally acted all normal.

My thoughts are if you were about to carry out mass murder, would you really do it at a place where you were so well known? Where you were a regular and staff knew you? Using your well known gf's casino card? Carrying out such an act in a place where you are so well known seems foolish in the extreme as clearly there would be no way he could have gotten away with it even presuming he had an escape plan. He would be very easily traceable. No-one from the hotel or anywhere else has mentioned Paddock seeming out of sorts acting strange or similar. Either he knew full well he didn't stand a chance in hell of getting out and getting away with it or...
he thought he was there for some other reason......

Somebody somewhere was calling in plenty of false alarms to confuse police and make the situation far more chaotic. This smacks of being orchestrated to this old lady

a reply to: tonycodes

I haven't seen a picture of an AR that he had without a flash suppresor like your bare barrel video. It's can make a big difference. I looked for the flashes and couldn't see any. That doesn't mean it wasn't there.
I've heard interviews stating they could see smoke from the Mandalay position.
I agree it's a valid question, but I don't think it's definitive that the lack of footage precludes the weapon from being fired from there. Just like I don't think there is anything precluding another shooter on the 32nd floor based on evidence available which is slim. That also doesn't mean there was another shooter.
We know next to nothing. People throwing around absolutes in this thread are the nutters. Plenty of reasonable questions without answers right now. A bunch of unreasonable stuff is being tossed around, too.

a reply to: soberbacchus

No, there was no shock..he was dead already. My guess is that he was killed before the initial shooting took place.

The shooting lasted for 9 to 11 minutes uninterupted. If He changed between the two Windows the shooting would have been interupted. Because he would have move between the two.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Thank you for your insight. And just to clarify the only absolute I know so far is that there is a lot of footage and zero muzzle flash in any of them.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: soberbacchus

No, there was no shock..he was dead already. My guess is that he was killed before the initial shooting took place.

The shooting lasted for 9 to 11 minutes uninterupted. If He changed between the two Windows the shooting would have been interupted. Because he would have move between the two.

Where are you getting 'uninterrupted' from? Christ, on ALL the videos posted there are clear breaks in between volleys... if you look at the floor plan of the room, all he had to do was drop the weapon he'd been firing, walk a few meters to the other window, pick up another of his many weapons and start firing again. How much of an interruption would be absolutely necessary anyway?


Oh and to add: I think the brother is very odd indeed (but not because he's somehow in on it, I have a different opinion on him, though it's not relevant) however, I don't think he was going to out him as an arms dealer, I think he was about to say "he was an army of one", then realised how #ed up that would sound after what had happened. If you look at the context he was describing how his brother was a rugged individualist, self reliant, standing alone.. I think "he was an army of one" is a 'colloquialism' that fits nicely into that sentence.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
After spending 36hrs reading non stop till my eyes bled, I am curious as to others' take on the fact that he checked himself into a hotel where he was very well known, made no attempt to disguise or hide the fact he was there, ordered room service and generally acted all normal.

My thoughts are if you were about to carry out mass murder, would you really do it at a place where you were so well known? Where you were a regular and staff knew you? Using your well known gf's casino card? Carrying out such an act in a place where you are so well known seems foolish in the extreme as clearly there would be no way he could have gotten away with it even presuming he had an escape plan. He would be very easily traceable. No-one from the hotel or anywhere else has mentioned Paddock seeming out of sorts acting strange or similar. Either he knew full well he didn't stand a chance in hell of getting out and getting away with it or...
he thought he was there for some other reason......

Somebody somewhere was calling in plenty of false alarms to confuse police and make the situation far more chaotic. This smacks of being orchestrated to this old lady

he was very well known, made no attempt to disguise or hide the fact he was there, ordered room service and generally acted all normal.

Hiding in plain sight?

You make a good point - it's not like he was just some dude who went to Vegas on a whim to gamble. He was a regular.

IMO, that takes away from him being an undercover-FBI agent who runs guns for IS.

Unless, like I said, hiding in plain sight.

I just don't know. Everyone and their dog's pet goldfish have an opinion.

originally posted by: EchoesInTime
a reply to: Krakatoa

He tried to explain the arm a few seconds later.

He apologizes and then says he was trying to use a coloquial term about armed forces. Didn't make sense.

Very sketchy. Busted.

Yeah, I just finished watching that entire video. I believe he was about to say that "Steve was an army-of-one", but stopped as not to disparage members of the armed forces. If you recall, the marketing slogan for the U.S. Army was something along the lines of "Be an Army of One". That, IMO, is what he was about to say at that point. But, considering the situation, he thought better of it out of thoughtfulness.

That is how I interpreted that stumble on his part.

a reply to: tonycodes

it wasnt a sloppy operation considering the final result. 

Here's what seems sketchy to me: timing (after 10 they closed several entrances), angle on the stairwell and hallway, angles covering approach to hotel and the venue, possible routes of egress, cameras in the hallway, all seem really solidly planned by someone who knew what they were doing.
But then he goes and unloads whole magazines at a time instead of using bursts, and he could have gotten better results and faster egress from a somewhat lower floor. He's also loaded for bear for a standoff with police, but offs himself instead. Also reportedly has explosives in his car, but doesn't set them up in the hall cart or in the suite. Think of how much more chaos and confusion he creates taking himself out in a big boom or using the boom to protect his approaches when SWAT or EOD shows up. Plenty more time to unload all those other mags into the flashing lights down below while they figure out plan B or longer for them to figure out who, what, when, why afterward.
All those seem really sloppy. So what went wrong between when or who the planner was and the execution?

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
Good points about his being well known and checking in ....

However---on the false reports---that can happen with any emergency situation. A few years ago we had a situation where a girl called the campus police to report an active shooter on campus. She had "seen" him.

What she actually saw, when questioned by the police later was a guy carrying what she "thought" looked like a rifle case into the student center. What she actually saw was a guy with a pool cue in a case entering the student center. After her call there were five more calls reporting a shooter on campus. No shots were ever fired because there was no gun. Pool cues don't discharge bullets. Why did five other people report something that obviously didn't happen? I have no idea...but they did. Why did she report an "active shooter" when all she'd seen was a guy with a long skinny case walking into the student center? God help her if she'd actually seen a member of the rifle team entering their practice facility with a real gun.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: EchoesInTime
a reply to: Krakatoa

He tried to explain the arm a few seconds later.

He apologizes and then says he was trying to use a coloquial term about armed forces. Didn't make sense.

Very sketchy. Busted.

Yeah, I just finished watching that entire video. I believe he was about to say that "Steve was an army-of-one", but stopped as not to disparage members of the armed forces. If you recall, the marketing slogan for the U.S. Army was something along the lines of "Be an Army of One". That, IMO, is what he was about to say at that point. But, considering the situation, he thought better of it out of thoughtfulness.

That is how I interpreted that stumble on his part.

Funnily enough I just edited my previous post to say exactly that too.. I didn't realise it was some kind of a recruitment slogan as well. Makes sense why he said it might be insulting to armed forces in that case. I was thinking he'd maybe stopped short of saying it because of what his brother had just done (which pretty much was being an army of one) but when you add in the recruitment slogan angle and him saying he didn't want to insult some branches of the armed services it makes it quite likely that that's what he was about to say

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: tonycodes

it wasnt a sloppy operation considering the final result. 

Here's what seems sketchy to me: timing (after 10 they closed several entrances), angle on the stairwell and hallway, angles covering approach to hotel and the venue, possible routes of egress, cameras in the hallway, all seem really solidly planned by someone who knew what they were doing.
But then he goes and unloads whole magazines at a time instead of using bursts, and he could have gotten better results and faster egress from a somewhat lower floor. He's also loaded for bear for a standoff with police, but offs himself instead. Also reportedly has explosives in his car, but doesn't set them up in the hall cart or in the suite. Think of how much more chaos and confusion he creates taking himself out in a big boom or using the boom to protect his approaches when SWAT or EOD shows up. Plenty more time to unload all those other mags into the flashing lights down below while they figure out plan B or longer for them to figure out who, what, when, why afterward.
All those seem really sloppy. So what went wrong between when or who the planner was and the execution?

You nailed it imho... Something is very wrong

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
After spending 36hrs reading non stop till my eyes bled, I am curious as to others' take on the fact that he checked himself into a hotel where he was very well known, made no attempt to disguise or hide the fact he was there, ordered room service and generally acted all normal.

My thoughts are if you were about to carry out mass murder, would you really do it at a place where you were so well known? Where you were a regular and staff knew you? Using your well known gf's casino card? Carrying out such an act in a place where you are so well known seems foolish in the extreme as clearly there would be no way he could have gotten away with it even presuming he had an escape plan. He would be very easily traceable. No-one from the hotel or anywhere else has mentioned Paddock seeming out of sorts acting strange or similar. Either he knew full well he didn't stand a chance in hell of getting out and getting away with it or...
he thought he was there for some other reason......

Somebody somewhere was calling in plenty of false alarms to confuse police and make the situation far more chaotic. This smacks of being orchestrated to this old lady

he was very well known, made no attempt to disguise or hide the fact he was there, ordered room service and generally acted all normal.

Hiding in plain sight?

You make a good point - it's not like he was just some dude who went to Vegas on a whim to gamble. He was a regular.

IMO, that takes away from him being an undercover-FBI agent who runs guns for IS.

Unless, like I said, hiding in plain sight.

I just don't know. Everyone and their dog's pet goldfish have an opinion.

My pet gold fish aside, I am still trying to form an opinion. One thing I am curious about is why are we hearing so much from Eric and not more from Bruce? Bruce, his other brother, lives in California I believe, would he not have more contact than his Florida brother? The media has no scruples when it comes to harassing family obviously...Why are we not hearing more from the brother who only lived one state away?

Edit add: a reply to: diggindirt

Omg! That post and story actually made me laugh! A few years ago, I was playing in 9ball billiard championships and actually am quite creative and innovative. I recycled an old gun case to use for my cue sticks, chalk, ect. Made lots of jokes about shooting up the competition! Thank goodness, I am not doing that any longer. Egad! Times have definitely changed!

a reply to: RomeByFire

If I were about to do what this guy did I would think that checking into somewhere familiar, where you know the layout, the rhythm, the routines, probably some of the staff, where everyone knows you and thinks you're great and likes you (or at least great for business and they pretend to like you ) and acting normal would be a very good way of remaining undetected indeed. Instead of checking into a random hotel where nobody knows you, you have no affiliations, carry no sway or reputation, packing serious amounts of luggage for a couple of days stay and acting furtive...

Police will never have a motive just like sandy hook

originally posted by: Indrasweb
a reply to: RomeByFire

If I were about to do what this guy did I would think that checking into somewhere familiar, where you know the layout, the rhythm, the routines, probably some of the staff, where everyone knows you and thinks you're great and likes you (or at least great for business and they pretend to like you ) and acting normal would be a very good way of remaining undetected indeed. Instead of checking into a random hotel where nobody knows you, you have no affiliations, carry no sway or reputation, packing serious amounts of luggage for a couple of days stay and acting furtive...

I agree and to add his brother mentions every casino knew him very well... He was obviously very intimate with most of the casinos in Nevada

Has anyone heard of this angle yet? The video suggests that this was a gun running scheme gone wrong. FBI agent is selling guns to isis members, they find out (that he is fbi) and kill him, then do the shooting in retaliation. The cameras setup in the hallway and room would be something you would do if involved in an operation like this. Could explain why so many weapons. Either way just another video.