Active Shooter Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay

a reply to: Montsta

No, actually no rifle is particularly 'easy' to modify to a full auto sear. The AR is actually designed to prevent it, and requires a modification to the lower as well to even accept the sear.

a reply to: TheScale

Depends. Lethal range is different than accurate lethal range. Both the 7.62 (either in a 51mm or a 39mm case) is lethal well outside these distances (upwards of 1,000m). Accuracy is a different matter. This shooter wasn't shooting individual targets, but rather at a large group of people. Still, not an easy shot by any stretch at 380 feet downhill and 330m+ distant...at night.

Picking out an individual target at this distance would be very difficult indeed, but he wasn't doing that.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

He would have almost certainly had to range the target, and have a pretty good understanding of downhill shooting (which is not easy at all) as well as the firearm itself along with bullet drop compensation for those distances.

Again, this was not an easy shot by any means.

originally posted by: TheScale
so whats considered the lethal range for these type of rounds out of a rifle? its quite possible a good portion of those 500+ injured owe their life simply due to the ranges he was firing at. i remember hearing military guys complain about them in a documentary when guys were out past 300 yards or so.

I mean really is a 5.56 lethal at 500 yards? Absolutely. I sure as hell wouldn't want to get hit by one in the chest. But if your goal is to kill large quantities of targets at 350 yards from an elevated, stationary position where lugging around the heavier 7.62 round isn't a consideration (one of the main reasons our military uses 5.56), there just isn't any valid reason to use a 5.56 over a 7.62 that I can think of. But then Dan Bilzerian the poker player was there and even said holy # someone got shot in the head, so doing a spray and pray method could certainly get the job done.

This is just one man's opinion so take it for what it's worth.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Gothmog

Go back , find my link , and realize. No , you cannot buy an automatic SAW anywhere. I agree with you on that. But a semi takes no more than a "gun" license. And realize , there are ways to convert . Illegal as hell , but still they exist

in some states, here in fl just a back ground check from a dealer or none in private sale.

oh and i'm the one that posted the link on the civilian saw, it is can not be modified without major gun smithin. it has pieces welded into the receivers where the trigger group would go.

Actually , go back a little further with my posts...
But good we remind folks
From experience , I believe the M249 SAW was what was used .

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Montsta

No, actually no rifle is particularly 'easy' to modify to a full auto sear. The AR is actually designed to prevent it, and requires a modification to the lower as well to even accept the sear.

Anyone that can mill out an 80% lower can mill out the extra section of material and then drill the whole for a DIAS. All you need is a handheld router and carbide end mill. And this guy seemed to be pretty bright, so I wouldn't think it'd be beyond his scope of ability if he set his mind to it.

a reply to: Gothmog

I sincerely doubt that. Only 1,000 M249's were put in service before 1986, and 100% of those were recalled in 1987. There was no budget allocation for the M249 in 1986, so they really didn't enter service until about 1987-8 in any numbers. This would have made all but the first 1,000 ineligible for ownership under the NFA '86 laws.

a reply to: Montsta

Yeah, not saying it can't be done, but it's not something a person could do without a pretty good understanding of trigger groups and machining skills.

Plus...you've got to get your hands on a full auto sear too, and that ain't gonna' be easy (at all).

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Montsta

Yeah, not saying it can't be done, but it's not something a person could do without a pretty good understanding of trigger groups and machining skills.

Plus...you've got to get your hands on a full auto sear too, and that ain't gonna' be easy (at all).

I completely agree. I guess I'm saying that if this evil piece of # could coordinate such an attack, he could probably get around machining a lower to accept an auto sear.

I certainly agree with your second point of obtaining the auto sear itself.

I'm just trying to spitball ideas and expand knowledge for others while acquiring knowledge from others for myself.

Whew! I've finally caught up on reading the thread...and didn't see anything offering information on exactly how long the shooting went on. I've seen everything from 15 minutes to an hour postulated... I know there must be literally hundreds of videos on cell phones. There must be a ton of security video as well that would have recorded the entire thing.

I've watched several videos but haven't seen one that encompassed the entire incident. Anyone have a link?

a reply to: diggindirt

72 minutes, from breaking glass to shooter down. That's about the best estimate I've seen.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
Thanks! Holy Cats....that's a long response time isn't it?

To address your comment on him having to range the shoot---he was apparently at the hotel for several days so wouldn't he have plenty of time in daylight to set it up with the tripods?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I'm having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around how long this went on.

I've seen reports of police radio reporting active shooter 42 seconds into this.

Ya got reports of gunfire from guests in adjacent rooms down to front desk.

And you've got reports of wounded hotel security when they initially responded.

Who did what for an additional hour or so is big question for me.

Did I hear police scanner reports had an engagement on floor 27 or am I mistaken on that?

I haven't read this whole big thread so if this is a repeat...sorry.

All day I didn't suspect the official story wasn't true. However, incrementally I have heard and seen evidence otherwise.

1. On the Sean Hannity radio show in 2nd hour, I hear two Fox reporters sent to report discussing "they are holding back something...it's obvious."
2. Mike Adams puts out a report and embedded video at 9:00 PM PST about an hour ago:
HeatherRanger
He states his report is going viral.
3. A few minutes ago YT Channel oldmarinevaughn has mirrored something very interesting:

The source:

Their source:
Twitter

So TPTB false flag is now a definite possibility.

Here's the part I don't get...

A guy busts out a window (two windows) 32 stories up, and starts pounding away with a high powered rifle (even if it was only a 5.56) for a couple hundred rounds...everyone in that hotel must have heard it! I mean, think about it, just go to your local holiday inn and light off a couple harmless firecrackers on the balcony and count the seconds before staff and the police show up. A rifle is going to make 10x that amount of noise! And...this wasn't just some po-dunk holiday inn either. Casinos have some of the most heavily armed staff anywhere. Banks would LOVE to have even 1/10th the armed security a casino does. Yet this guy hammers away for nearly an hour before SWAT ultimately takes him down (or he takes himself out, take your pick).

Why?

Seriously, how many times have you been in a hotel where the next door neighbor had the TV on too loud, or someone was stomping across the floor above you? Gunfire is 1,000x louder than any of those things...and it still took an hour to shut this dude down???? Something just seems wrong with this. Vegas is one of the most heavily policed cities I've ever set foot in! It seems like there's LEO's on every single street corner (often more than one), there are police cars everywhere, but yet nobody can seem to find this dude and shut him off for an hour? That just doesn't compute to me.

Yeah, I get the whole 'proceed with cauttion' thing, but an hour?

Having digested all of the new information I'm leaning toward an agenda/motive that really goes against the grain. Something that will take time to spin and piece out the details.

So much conjecture out there but nothing solid and that is unusual.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I was listening to the police radio traffic. There were lots of calls for shots fired from all over the strip.

Having said that, your entry above does make the 70 mins seem like an eternity.

On the other hand, Police do not often raid until they have all of their ducks in a row. Secure the general area ... make sure civilians are safe. You need a strike team ... and then wait until force protection gets on scene ... discuss where the shooter is ... etc etc until 70 mins later you take down the perp.

This is where Police training and military training are very different.

I am sure that police standard operating procedures were followed ... and that is why it took 70 damn minutes.

P

Mike McGarry threw himself on top of his children as shots rang out. "They're 20. I'm 53. I lived a good life."

a reply to: Granite

Honestly, I think the first video is a little misleading. For example, a stock AR-15 upper will come with a flash hider, and you wont see a huge fireball flash like it shows, it will be much more dim, a lot like the dim flashing light in the second video.

However, in all the videos that are claiming much lower floors having a shooter, well, there are a ton of blinking lights in Vegas, and this is a really reflective building, we could just be seeing some random reflections.

We would need to match the gun shot audio with the flashing light to confirm it is the source. Because of the speed of sound, it would require someone to slide the audio track back a bit to synchronize with the flashing.

I had not realized that Dan B was clearly convinced about 4th floor shooter. He also has the high resolution video and said video is obviously even more convincing. I did notice that I haven’t seen mentioned is when you see people point to shooter in some of the hysteria videos they never seem to be pointing very high.