Has North Korea lost its collective mind?

I don't think he's mad in the sense that he's unstable. He's rational within the context of the deranged and perverse framework he was born to lead.

From the point of view of a NK person the USA is the boogeyman. It's a boogeyman that has demonstrated a willingness to topple regimes it dislikes whenever it likes and has the power to do so. The only thing that checks it is nuclear deterrence. Therefore seeking the ability to strike the boogeyman and deter him is imperative.

If you step outside the west's point of view for a moment you see that what we consider a 'crazy thing' isn't crazy. From the other side not doing it would be the crazy thing.

This is what makes the situation dangerous.

a reply to: JBurns

I smell what you're cookin' but there might be a better approach.

IMO the best option is propaganda-drop WWII style leaflet drops over military outposts saying something like 'if you wish to live, please evacuate. Your leader is putting you and your families lives at risk. We want peace, not war. Step down and let us reinstall democracy and let us help rid you of this familial dictatorship that has held you in chains for decades' and wait for a response, maybe there will an uprising but will result in deaths, but so will surgical strikes.

However Trump's comments about destroying North Korea are reckless, as most NK civvies embrace western culture but are held back by a paranoid pudgy pinhead that inherited his fathers hate. Threatening the entire nation is a flipping stupid Idea constructed by a president who has microphallus syndrome, but if push comes to shove the hierarchy should be targeted first to spare the civvies.

a reply to: justwokeup

The act of developing nuclear weapons is not itself an act of insanity - agreed. However, due to our military primacy throughout the world (what enables us to defend our allies and deter attacks), we cannot allow a hostile state such as NK to develop game changing weapons.

We have no reason to take them at their word regarding their intended defensive uses. Such a weapon would threaten U.S. assets and objectives, and must be eliminated. NK has lied and stalled for decades, constantly carrying out acts of war (shelling SK, firing missiles over Japan, etc) and making belligerent threats against sovereign nations around the globe.

NK is a brutal communist dictatorship that must not be allowed to achieve parity with any of our capabilities. We currently have every advantage, and should work dilligently to maintain this position. Obviously once the communist regime is ousted, China's historical interest in the area should be recognized. At least Chinese citizens have access to food, medical care, the Internet, etc. They could even choose to relocate to Hong Kong, which enjoys a very different system of Government. Although technically also communist, China's society has evolved far beyond such paradigms allowing its people to enjoy a certain degree of self determination.

I am happy the President has drawn a red line that North Korea would be very wise not to cross. Not just in this situation, but our will & resolve is being tested on the global stage.. and this is one such test we cannot afford to fail.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I don't think the North Korean's are truly happy. If they knew what we know and the freedoms we have I bet they would be thinking differently about their country. I've seen some undercover footage over there and it's just plain weird. It looks like they live by fear more than anything.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie


I agree completely, especially in that we should give those opposed to the regime an opportunity to take control of their own destiny and right to self determination. I also believe that "nuking" the North is an absolute last resort, and that conventional warfare combined with asymmetric strategies would be very effective.

If such a large portion of the population is simply paying lip service to the regime (I wouldn't be surprised, fear only goes so far and brainwashing generally isn't very effective either), it is very likely they would surrender or even defect en masse. This would, of course, be preferable!

Although, the highest priority is getting China to apply the kind of pressure that only they can. If the 21st century has taught us anything, it's that China and Russia are both global powerhouses that have significant influence on world events. If the U.S. has to solve this alone, it is likely we will remain the sole recognized super power and win the "war of wills" regarding the S. China sea and other regional hotspots. If China and/or Russia can step in and fix this, they will demonstrate to the world what we've already seen: they are world leaders, on the same playing field as the United States.

RE: Has North Korea lost its collective mind?

I cant speak for them, but 'we' lost ours generations ago.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

It might be time to change the name...

I know there are north Korean people who despise the way they live the fear that if tgey say something wrong or if someone vents their true feelings they are likely to be imprisoned at the very least. The difference them and "civilized nations" or here in the US we can complain about our government . We make fun of it on a daily basis in movies and television shows. We have an outlet and i believe we forget the rest of the world isn't like this.

That being said. We need to watch out forour safety. If there is war there will be casualties on both sides. I hate war. But i also realize that in some cases it is necessary. This case i believe with the threat of nuclear weapons it is necessary. And some one with a name such as "enlightened" could kind of grasp.

Im bowing out. Have fun.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

It isn't that he exactly revels in that fact, but simply realizes there is no other assured path to full and unconditional disarmament. The North can not be normalized and accepted as a nuclear power, lest it have the ability to hold the world hostage. At this point, it doesn't have a true second-strike capacity.

Whether or not they are disarmed by force or coercion is yet to be seen. I strongly believe they will be disarmed, nevertheless. I also believe regime change has already been ordered, likely in a way they least expect. A country like that wouldn't be very difficult to destabilize, especially if China is serious about abandoning the communist regime (MSN article). Once living conditions become intolerable, transition to some sort of democracy or republic (like the ROK) is inevitable.

Good analysis.

He may already be toast.

He has to run to the table and put everything on the table, or he's done.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TinfoilTP

So you've been there and know that these people are happy with the way things are in NK? Because from here it sounds like you're assuming things about an entire population based on limited information.

One need not be bitten by a rattlesnake to know they are dangerous.

NK like many countries past and present that are under the absolute rule of ambitious rulers have their population controlled in large part by those rulers. When the rulers become dangerous their country becomes dangerous. If the people can’t shutdown their dangerous rulers then it falls to outside countries threatened by the danger to strike and unfortunately the people in that country will be at risk until the ruler is removed from power.

The thought of Trump tweeting about a war like a high schooler, however necessary the war might be, just makes me cringe, I'm sorry.

a reply to: JBurns


Their will be no war with NK. Period unless it starts by mistake. The reason being its the same situation as occurred during the American Civil war with regards to Atlanta, and a few other siege towns they the NK are so dug in the losses to federal troops would be so horrendous they would just stop fighting. There you had a four year war, where the North with its resources should have won in a few months, the South used hit and run tactics and where you had serious engagements like Sharpsburg, the losses were twice the number that occurred on the beaches of Normandy on D day. It just aint gonna happen.

Something we don't hear about, but just as critical.

While the exchange of harsh words and warnings between North Korea and the U.S. has engrossed the global audience, Pyongyang, North Korea, is also engaged in another shouting match, with China, that is equally blistering.

In a commentary piece distributed on Sept. 22 and titled "Rude Deed of Shameless Media," the Rodong Sinmun, the official newspaper of the Workers' Party of Korea, accused the Chinese media of being in collusion with the imperialists, interfering in North Korea's internal affairs, being oblivious of the mission of media ("objectivity and impartiality" it said), and driving a wedge between the two countries and the two peoples.

Source: asia.nikkei.com...

As a result, CHINA is considering what has been, until now, unthinkable...

Beijing:  North Korea's nuclear antics have rattled its alliance with China to the point that Beijing is allowing the previously unthinkable to be discussed: Is it time to prepare for the renegade regime's collapse? 

Source: www.ndtv.com...

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
The thought of Trump tweeting about a war like a high schooler, however necessary the war might be, just makes me cringe, I'm sorry.

If Trump sneezes some folks in the US scream and run in fear.....imagined fear , but fear well enough.
Stop cringing , doesnt become anyone.

originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TinfoilTP

So you've been there and know that these people are happy with the way things are in NK? Because from here it sounds like you're assuming things about an entire population based on limited information.

One need not be bitten by a rattlesnake to know they are dangerous.

NK like many countries past and present that are under the absolute rule of ambitious rulers have their population controlled in large part by those rulers. When the rulers become dangerous their country becomes dangerous. If the people can’t shutdown their dangerous rulers then it falls to outside countries threatened by the danger to strike and unfortunately the people in that country will be at risk until the ruler is removed from power.

History is full of deranged despots that attempted to take over the world . Thankfully , most were put down . In the literal sense.
Good point.

a reply to: JBurns

You mean the tracks they're warned about shortly in advance?

You think uS would mind if China nuked Mexico or Canada?

Their target can be calculated by air defense installations with relative accuracy within a specified CEP.

Not during climb phase, only after apogee.

But being China, you would believe the uS when it said they were only 'nuking Korea'.

Us of course keeps its promises.

You can't be twice my age, people don't live that long.

No one will if they listen to you.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: JBurns


What concerns me is that NK have the 3rd largest standing army in the world and 1000's of missiles. It would be a cataclysm.

To then see Trump's tweets today saying that any and all diplomatic effort is a waste of time on his Sec Def's part, while once again using name calling, like it's a primary race or something, is equally as disturbing.

I also don't see anyone communicating a large carrot ie: removal of all sanctions, ability to join the international community and realize long term security and prosperity.

There doesn't seem to be any of that directed at the North Korean people and everyone who surrounds their leader.

It looks like Trump wants to see a war brought about to make use of those toys you mention.

Unfortunately, North Korea are really like one of those religious cults with a charismatic leader, security staff and an obedient population. There may be a few escapees but it's hard to reach the rest of the population.

Keeping the population in a bunker mentality of a future war with the USA is a way to keep them distracted from the
differences in standards of living. They have the belief that they will be invaded by South Korea or the USA at any
time. Therefore they need to have nuclear weapons to prevent this from happening.

Compare this to the Waco Siege. They had a doomsday belief that civilization would end, and that the survivors would fight over the last remaining food. They then needed to stockpile food and have strong defenses and munitions to defend themselves. They ended up being raided by the BATF in their quest to get David Koresh and the unlicensed weapons.

What carrots could we offer both sides. Joining the international community would completely destroy the power structure of North Korea. It would be like trying to reunify East and West Germany while the Stasi are still in control.
Every who could would apply for asylum or attempt to move to China or South Korea.

originally posted by: carewemust
Something we don't hear about, but just as critical.

While the exchange of harsh words and warnings between North Korea and the U.S. has engrossed the global audience, Pyongyang, North Korea, is also engaged in another shouting match, with China, that is equally blistering.

In a commentary piece distributed on Sept. 22 and titled "Rude Deed of Shameless Media," the Rodong Sinmun, the official newspaper of the Workers' Party of Korea, accused the Chinese media of being in collusion with the imperialists, interfering in North Korea's internal affairs, being oblivious of the mission of media ("objectivity and impartiality" it said), and driving a wedge between the two countries and the two peoples.

Source: asia.nikkei.com...

As a result, CHINA is considering what has been, until now, unthinkable...

Beijing:  North Korea's nuclear antics have rattled its alliance with China to the point that Beijing is allowing the previously unthinkable to be discussed: Is it time to prepare for the renegade regime's collapse? 

Source: www.ndtv.com...

This is what I am talking about.Not only are they poking at the US , they are provoking their only ally . This has been going on for a while , though . The original UN sanctions were written by the Chinese due to this.
China and the US were discussing a hotline between the 2 nations. That right there should tell you something.

a reply to: AnonymousTi

I think that too.

a reply to: JBurns

you ask the question :

"Has North Korea lost its collective mind"

then proceed to suggest a nuclear first strike as the response

look in the mirror - thats the person who has " lost thier mind "

It came down to the bankers (international bankers) not being able to do business with American allies. Funny no one reported on that yet. Maybe its too hard to swallow. Loss of business that is, not lives.