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originally posted by: dfnj2015
[As an agnostic, you have no principles. You are just asserting a proposition about "knowability" without any evidence to support your position.
He among you is the wisest who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is really worth nothing at all. (Apology 23b, tr. Church, rev. Cumming) - That the wisest of you men is he who like Socrates has learned that with respect to wisdom, he is truly worthless. (tr. Tredennick) - He, O men, is the wisest who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing. (tr. Jowett) - This man among you, mortals, is wisest who, like Socrates, understands that his wisdom is worthless. (tr. Grube)
What does it mean? Socrates spoke with a man who was said by many to be wise, but found that this man had no more wisdom than Socrates had, [and that the man even became angry when Socrates showed him that this was so,] and therefore Socrates concluded that "it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think I know what I do not know".
originally posted by: dfnj2015
originally posted by: imthegoat
No matter how you try to justify what you said; you sound exactly like a religious person. Nothing you said is short of a faith based system. You BELIEVE that you're better than those who practice religion. You BELIEVE that you're better than those who believe in a God. You're attempting to shove your BELIEFS down someone elses throat because they don't agree with you. You have faith, my friend, and its just as contemptuous as those in Christianity.
First, you are not my friend. This is not a discussion about me. This is a discussion about atheism and what it means to be an atheist. If you want to delude yourself in thinking atheism is a form of faith because thinking otherwise would challenge your belief system with a much more rationale way of thinking, then by all means, remain comfortable in your delusions.
I never said I was better. I said atheists are better because they have a clear and precise way of thinking based on principles. The problem with theists is there is no objective truth so there are as many religions as there are people on the planet. What reason or rationale would you claim theists are better than atheists?
I'm not attempting to shove my beliefs down anyone. You can think for yourself or you don't think at all. Atheism is not a dogma with a belief or faith. Atheism has no beliefs. It just has one simple principle about what is real and what is imaginary. You just can't accept the possibility, assuming you are a theist, all your cherished beliefs are just imaginary delusions.
originally posted by: ClovenSky
Atheists believe there is no god, which requires the same level of faith as the religious. There is no proof.
originally posted by: imthegoat
Atheism is very much so a belief system. Its belief is that no deity exists. Disbelief is still a belief when there is no proof either way. This is the very problem with atheists.
Atheist have zero proof that there is no God, no higher power. Just as theists have no proof that there is a God, or higher power. How you are unable to see the correlation between the two is beyond me. As with theists, you're blinded by your beliefs.
originally posted by: dfnj2015
originally posted by: ClovenSky
Atheists believe there is no god, which requires the same level of faith as the religious. There is no proof.
Atheist do not simply claim there is no God. Atheist claim the only things that exist are those things where we have objective evidence for their existence. Since there is no evidence for the existence of God, God does not exist by principle. It is not an assertion or statement of faith.
originally posted by: imthegoat
originally posted by: dfnj2015
originally posted by: ClovenSky
Atheists believe there is no god, which requires the same level of faith as the religious. There is no proof.
Atheist do not simply claim there is no God. Atheist claim the only things that exist are those things where we have objective evidence for their existence. Since there is no evidence for the existence of God, God does not exist by principle. It is not an assertion or statement of faith.
Where do you get your information from? Atheism is literally a disbelief or lack of belief in a God or Gods. Are you confusing Atheism with Science? Because they're not one in the same.
originally posted by: ClovenSky
I really hope you continue to identify as an atheist.
originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: dfnj2015
Ahh, DFN I still miss the donkey.
Your statement is probably true to a certain extent. I wouldn't mind seeing it change towards a better clarification between the two terms as I think the differences are huge and glaring.
I will probably sound like an ass here and it is mostly intended.
I really hope you continue to identify as an atheist.
Thank you