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It takes a big pair to make the claim of atheism.

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posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
[As an agnostic, you have no principles. You are just asserting a proposition about "knowability" without any evidence to support your position.




EXACTLY. There IS NO evidence to a god or not. I won't "believe" one or the other without it.




He among you is the wisest who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is really worth nothing at all. (Apology 23b, tr. Church, rev. Cumming) - That the wisest of you men is he who like Socrates has learned that with respect to wisdom, he is truly worthless. (tr. Tredennick) - He, O men, is the wisest who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing. (tr. Jowett) - This man among you, mortals, is wisest who, like Socrates, understands that his wisdom is worthless. (tr. Grube)

What does it mean? Socrates spoke with a man who was said by many to be wise, but found that this man had no more wisdom than Socrates had, [and that the man even became angry when Socrates showed him that this was so,] and therefore Socrates concluded that "it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think I know what I do not know".


www.roangelo.net...

Basically as wisdom starts with "I don't know." Like Data said:




edit on 30-9-2017 by intrepid because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-9-2017 by intrepid because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: dantanna

There is no such thing as evangelical atheists. If they do exist, they are isolated terrorists cells.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:34 PM
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Why is there such a hang up with labels for people regarding belief in deities?
And which deity? Loads to choose from in Hinduism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Abrahamic religions and every other including Norse gods.

So come on OP which deity should we blindly believe in? If you believe in the Abrahamic god but deny the existence of Hindu gods WTF does that make you label wise? Hinduatheist?
It's ridiculous, labels for the lack of belief in gods. I don't belive in pixies, elves, santa claus, unicorns, or dragons. You got a label for that as well? There is as much evidence to support belief in elves are there is any gods, namely nothing, other than unverified stories passed down through generations.

So to close, I don't believe in anything untestable or unverifiable, but the moment some evidence crosses my path to convince me I'll happily change my opinion.
Gods = Zero evidence = No faith required to lack belief in the unverifiable claims.

If you choose to label me as atheist then so be it, but please, do let me know the label I should have for my lack of belief in pixies as well.
edit on 30-9-2017 by TJames because: typing mistakes



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

No matter how many times people try to frame atheism as the assertion "no God exists" it is wrong. What atheists are saying is no God exists because we have no objective evidence for God's existence. The only things that exist are things we have objective evidence. Everything else without objective evidence is imaginary delusion.

No atheist is claiming to be omniscience with the foreknowledge of knowing all they don't know.



edit on 30-9-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: TJames

You are an apixie, aelves, aclaus, aunicorn, adragon person.

Great post by the way. Finally someone with brains or at least trying to think this through.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

It does seem like a lot of people confuse agnostics with atheists.

Atheists believe there is no god, which requires the same level of faith as the religious. There is no proof.

If you claim that knowledge of what comes before and what comes after our time in this reality begins/ends is not possible, then you should identify as an agnostic.

But I guess if those people that don't know the difference or are too lazy to fully explore the ramifications, claim they are atheists, that is for the best as I self label as agnostic. It is better that they don't clutter up the term agnostic because it doesn't seem they will be able to follow through and gain the benefits that thought process enables.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: imthegoat
No matter how you try to justify what you said; you sound exactly like a religious person. Nothing you said is short of a faith based system. You BELIEVE that you're better than those who practice religion. You BELIEVE that you're better than those who believe in a God. You're attempting to shove your BELIEFS down someone elses throat because they don't agree with you. You have faith, my friend, and its just as contemptuous as those in Christianity.


First, you are not my friend. This is not a discussion about me. This is a discussion about atheism and what it means to be an atheist. If you want to delude yourself in thinking atheism is a form of faith because thinking otherwise would challenge your belief system with a much more rationale way of thinking, then by all means, remain comfortable in your delusions.

I never said I was better. I said atheists are better because they have a clear and precise way of thinking based on principles. The problem with theists is there is no objective truth so there are as many religions as there are people on the planet. What reason or rationale would you claim theists are better than atheists?

I'm not attempting to shove my beliefs down anyone. You can think for yourself or you don't think at all. Atheism is not a dogma with a belief or faith. Atheism has no beliefs. It just has one simple principle about what is real and what is imaginary. You just can't accept the possibility, assuming you are a theist, all your cherished beliefs are just imaginary delusions.



Atheism is very much so a belief system. Its belief is that no deity exists. Disbelief is still a belief when there is no proof either way. This is the very problem with atheists.

Atheist have zero proof that there is no God, no higher power. Just as theists have no proof that there is a God, or higher power. How you are unable to see the correlation between the two is beyond me. As with theists, you're blinded by your beliefs.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Personally I've never said gods do not exist because how could I verify such an assertion.
I just don't have any faith that gods exist due to the lack of evidence to support such claims, same with pixies and elves.
And again, if one believes in the Abrahamic god but denies the existence of Hindu gods how do they square that circle?



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: TJames

You are an apixie, aelves, aclaus, aunicorn, adragon person.

Great post by the way. Finally someone with brains or at least trying to think this through.


Cheers and LMAO...does it take faith to be an apixie do ya reckon?



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
Atheists believe there is no god, which requires the same level of faith as the religious. There is no proof.


Atheist do not simply claim there is no God. Atheist claim the only things that exist are those things where we have objective evidence for their existence. Since there is no evidence for the existence of God, God does not exist by principle. It is not an assertion or statement of faith.


edit on 30-9-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: imthegoat
Atheism is very much so a belief system. Its belief is that no deity exists.

Rubbish, it is lack of belief sitting on the fence until such claims can be verified, same as my lack of belief in pixies and elves.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: imthegoat
Atheism is very much so a belief system. Its belief is that no deity exists. Disbelief is still a belief when there is no proof either way. This is the very problem with atheists.

Atheist have zero proof that there is no God, no higher power. Just as theists have no proof that there is a God, or higher power. How you are unable to see the correlation between the two is beyond me. As with theists, you're blinded by your beliefs.


Just answer me one simple question. How is disbelief a belief? The absence of something is NOT something. The absence of something is NOTHING. Saying NOTHING is SOMETHING is completely irrational and insane. I'm sorry but there's just no other way for me to say this. Please do not take this as an ad hominem attack because that was not my intention.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: ClovenSky
Atheists believe there is no god, which requires the same level of faith as the religious. There is no proof.


Atheist do not simply claim there is no God. Atheist claim the only things that exist are those things where we have objective evidence for their existence. Since there is no evidence for the existence of God, God does not exist by principle. It is not an assertion or statement of faith.



Where do you get your information from? Atheism is literally a disbelief or lack of belief in a God or Gods. Are you confusing Atheism with Science? Because they're not one in the same.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: TJames

I totally agree.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

You are splitting hairs. To avoid he word "faith"? In fact you sound like an agnostic.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Ahh, DFN I still miss the donkey.

Your statement is probably true to a certain extent. I wouldn't mind seeing it change towards a better clarification between the two terms as I think the differences are huge and glaring.


I will probably sound like an ass here and it is mostly intended.

I really hope you continue to identify as an atheist.

Thank you



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: imthegoat

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: ClovenSky
Atheists believe there is no god, which requires the same level of faith as the religious. There is no proof.


Atheist do not simply claim there is no God. Atheist claim the only things that exist are those things where we have objective evidence for their existence. Since there is no evidence for the existence of God, God does not exist by principle. It is not an assertion or statement of faith.



Where do you get your information from? Atheism is literally a disbelief or lack of belief in a God or Gods. Are you confusing Atheism with Science? Because they're not one in the same.


OMG! Just because most theists are bullies with their beliefs doesn't mean they get to define what it means to be an atheist. You theist do this ALL the time. If you want to know what atheists believe do NOT make it up. Do NOT get what it means from other theists.

This is the best source on what it means to be an atheist:

www.atheists.org

No matter how much you theist try to shove your definitions down everyone's throats the atheists speak for themselves.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
I really hope you continue to identify as an atheist.

Interesting. I identify as someone who doesn't believe any on the myriad deity claims arond the world due to lack of evidence.
I avoid the silly labels of agnostic/atheist because if my lack of belief ever troubles you just ask and debate me about my lack of belief. Don't focus on silly labels, debate the faith or lack thereof.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: dfnj2015

You are splitting hairs. To avoid he word "faith"? In fact you sound like an agnostic.




There are NO hairs. Atheism is one simple idea: A lack of belief in Gods.

When you lack something it doesn't mean you HAVE something.



posted on Sep, 30 2017 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: dfnj2015

Ahh, DFN I still miss the donkey.

Your statement is probably true to a certain extent. I wouldn't mind seeing it change towards a better clarification between the two terms as I think the differences are huge and glaring.


I will probably sound like an ass here and it is mostly intended.

I really hope you continue to identify as an atheist.

Thank you


I got banned for 3 months for political commentary so I had to get rid of the donkey. One man's freedom fighter is another man's troll.

Well, I may continue to be identified as a atheist but I am not an atheist. I'm actually a theist. It's just that the atheist position of the most logical and easiest one to argue. I haven't argued the atheist position in the while so this is fun.

About 30 years ago in my 20s I used to be an atheist during the days of USENET news groups. Being an atheist is actually very easy to argue. So one day, just for fun and a challenge, I started arguing the theist position against the atheists. About 10 years later and working really hard on my arguments I started to actually believe or be convinced by what I was arguing! LOL!

That said, I'm not really looking forward to meeting the Old Testament God.



edit on 30-9-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



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