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originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
originally posted by: TJames
originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: TerryDon79
To be fair, all threads are based upon assumptions. What happened here though is a continued refusal to admit said assumptions. Then as you said, cherry picking and weasel wording word meanings, and you get what we have here.
A thread that is open missionary work.
You're outstanding at derailing threads. Do you always waste people's time? You should consider a change of approach. Your arrogance is way out of line. You ruined a perfect good thread. You always do?
It wasn't a perfectly good thread though, you wanted people who don't believe in God's to prove gods don't exist. Absolutely ridiculous premise.
I don't believe in any gods but I don't assert there are none, same as claims of pixies etc, how can the unverifiable be verified lol
No, all I did was claiming people who claim God does not exist make an outrageous claim cause they have no proof for it.
From what I understand about the belief is that reincarnation isn't necessarily a good thing. You can be reincarnated as a lesser being or a greater being depending on your karma. The goal of the religion isn't to be constantly reincarnated into better beings though. It's to escape the whole cycle of reincarnation altogether and ascend to Nirvana. Granted you have to be reincarnated into better beings to accomplish this, but that is just the means to the end.
Personally, as an outside to religion, logically I feel like reincarnation is a more logical way to test and train humans for the supposed after life. The way I see Christianity and other abrahamic religions is that a "one and done" chance to be with god doesn't make sense. It's not fair to the people who screw up, make bad choices, or haven't even heard of the god. When you add reincarnation to the mix, it allows more time to spiritually prepare yourself and your soul to be with god.
According to Wikipedia, belief in polytheism and hypocritical non-belief in God appear to be the gravest of sins in Islam, which seem to guarantee you a ticket to hell.
48. Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin.
For a being who is meant to represent the epitome of benevolence and mercy, how could God create hell and condemn those who don't believe in him or believe in other gods to such harsh suffering when all that really gets harmed in having these beliefs or disbeliefs is the pride of God?
But for me, the Islamic concepts of Heaven and Hell make sense. To put it in modern terms, we basically believe that Heaven/Jannah is the "real" dimension, our current Universe is a "test" dimension (like a beta testing ground or "sandbox" in programming), and Hell/Jahannam is the scrapyard dimension where defective test subjects go. Our spirits are given 4 dimensional vehicles so they can navigate this test dimension and all of our actions & inactions are recorded. And we're tested constantly with all manners of tests, big and small. Our only purpose here is to prove that we're worthy of being allowed into the "real" dimension and that we'd be compatible with the creatures that exist there.
I see it the same way humans would treat fully autonomous AI robots. Only a fool would release them into human society without testing them first. So they'd probably be placed in a large testing ground and allowed to run amok. The programmers might give them clues every now and then, or even specifically program specific robots to teach the others the "correct" way to live. But ultimately, the programmers would sit back & analyze the behaviors of the robots to see which ones are worthy of being allowed into human society.
The robots would be tested in a lot of ways to see how they react under stress, how they react when given authority over others, how they treat their environments, how they feel towards their hypothetical programmers, etc. The ones that "pass" would be allowed into human society, while the ones that "fail" would get scrapped. Simply reprogramming them to act "correctly" would defeat the whole point in making them autonomous. In Islam, humans are those autonomous AI robots from my example. We believe that most other creatures are automatically programmed to accept God, His Angels, etc. But Humans and Jinn (and possibly others) have "free will", which in Islam is the freedom to accept or reject God, His Angels, etc.
And ironically, "disbelief" itself shouldn't be the opposite of Islam; "defiance" should be. Because our Devil knows that God, His Angels, His Prophets, Heaven, and Hell are real; he just defies them anyway and tries to get other jinn and humans to defy them (with things like "intrusive thoughts"). Imagine an autonomous AI robot that knows about its human programmers & our societies, but spends his time trying to convince the other robots to hate, mock, and defy humans. It would make sense why that specific robot would be Public Enemy #1 for the programmers, at least in regards to the other AI robot creations. In Islam, our Devil will also be punished in Hell instead of the commonly heard theory of the Christian Devil "ruling" in Hell.
To me it seems either organised religions have got the nature of God wrong, or adherents of religion are being deceived by an entity claiming to be God but who is actually not God.
How can a divine being that is omnipotent and omniscient even feel anger towards his creations if he inherently knew they disbelieved in him before they were born?
You, like the vast majority of adherents of organised religion, have this human-like concept of God in regards to his temperament and actions.