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India: Su-30 Out F-16 In?

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posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 01:39 PM
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The Indian/Russian connection may be showing a few cracks. THe majority of Indias front line fighter aircraft are the SU-27/30 etc variants, but now Lockheed Martin has won approval to sell both the P3-C and the C-130J. In addition, the IAF may be considering the F-16 for thier frontline fighter use.



BANGALORE, India - Lockheed Martin Corp., the biggest U.S. defense company, said Thursday it has won export licenses to sell C-130J military transport planes and P-3C Orion naval surveillance aircraft to India.

India is also considering buying the single crew fighter aircraft, F-16 Fighting Falcon, as its front-line fighter aircraft.

Plessas said if India buys the jets, Lockheed Martin would be a reliable supplier of spares and technology, and that the United States was keen to allow joint production of the F-16 in India.

F-16's India Bound?



It is unclear if they would replace the SU's or operate multiple mixed squadrons. While the Su-30MMK is a fine aircraft, there are sign that the IAF may not be as happy as the rhetoric here on ATS would make it seem.




posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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c-130 transport ,p-3C patrol submarin
what about su 27 and 30MKI?
dont think'er that they have su 27, but nevermind
First su 30 named su-30 MKI and for china su-30MKK not MMK.
then F-16 is bed fighter.
Swedish pilot sad about his f 18 -"Our HORNET dont have a sting" after they fly with mig 29
F-16 f-18 is one s....
La LA LA LA su 30MKI was building in india.
Dont saw the propaganda , see the NEWS.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 06:01 PM
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If you belive the validity of the Cope India exersizes which were against F-15 not the 16's and the superiority of the Su-30MMWhatever) why would the Indians even be considering a change? Both would be made in India as the article contends. THe news came for AWST which is "the" source for all things aviation IMHO.

While we armchair pilots throw out figures and the like, the IAF is an actuall operator with realtime experience in the type. As I said even thinking about a change or adding it to thier fleet speeks volumes about thier experiences with The Su-30's etc. If the planes were all they were cut up to be, then why not consider the Mig-29?? Given the rhetoric you hear around here you think it would be as revolutionary as say the Me-262



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 06:49 PM
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Of course India doesn't want the Falcon over the Su 30. It says nothing of the sort that gives such an indication. Maybe it's because they would be allowed to manufacture the F 16. That sound sensible. I'd prefer any Russian fighter from the Superflanker to the SuperFulcrum but Russia doesn't like to issue production licenses that easily.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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maby you was right some easy.Please.
If i get it right that you say that f-15 loose the fight su-30, and why IAf
need some other fighter .. If its right then I say america air f. have f 15 - havy fighter f-16 - light fighter and f-18 - naval (how i can understand), the fighter that want bye India is Light fighter.(they don't was use in hard fightin) how i can understand (thats only my things). -Its because the Su 30's (export) is the best fighter that can bye, and they was have in rear futer 150 su (How i can remember) and the was build it self (on next or after next yaer). But for Patrolings, and coverings of all territory of india (not for fight) they need ligt fighter. That was use not so much fuel and ...
plus they need to training hare pilots it wos not so expenciv and other.
so their now choose the fighter in light w-t. So it can be a mig 29.
There have mig 29 (about 200) so what their chose we can look.
(Im not shure that all data are exact so I don' search some special in that so you can finde self).



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:29 PM
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The IAF (Indian) does not see the F-16(any version) as a superior fighter to the Su-30 MKI..neither do I..The Su-30 MKI will reamin the IAFs best frontline fighter until 2015 at least.

Su-30MKI had some issues in 2002-3 due to which a russian team was flown down to Pune, India to iron out the problems. As far as I know the Fighters are optimally performing since then(I saw them most recently in Oct. 2003 up close and then again in January )

The reason for buying a stop-gap fighter(Grippen/Typhoon/Mirage 5/rafaele/F-16/MiG29 SMT) is to keep the IAF as a potent fighting force unitl the LCA/MCA come in..
These fighters will replace the non-upgraded MiG21s, the MiG 23 and the MiG27..

Why the F-16 may have become the front runner IMO maybe because:
[
1. Damn good fighter for its cost (Only the MiG29 SMT maybe cheaper)

2. Good to have the F-16 since the PAF will finally get its entire shipment of
F-16s (now totalling 80 approx.). Evaluating the PAF threat perception will become much eaiser.

3. The PLAAF J-10 is also rev.-engg. F-16. The above point hence applies here as well.

4. The Indian aircraft (fighter) industry must have realised that using design techniques from one of the best single engined aircraft ever will help in solving problems with their own LCA single engined aircraft. Also F-16 concepts could be used in the MCA as well.
Rev. engg. takes a decade off aircraft development, as the chinese have learnt.
]

The russians don't have so much of a problem with issuing production licenses as they do with others using their designs for other aircraft(chinese). Hence the Russians now want to only maintain intellectual property rights (w.r.t. Su 30MKI at least).

On a diff note, Where is Stealth Spy?? hope he's at the Bangalore airshow..ATS needs some input from there



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 01:16 AM
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I don't see why India needs F-16s.

Air Superiority - Su-30 MKI,Su-30 MK.

Interceptors - MiG-29, MiG-21, MiG-23

Multirole - MiG-21, MiG-23/27, Su-30MK,LCA , Jaguar.

With all these planes in service, India probably is operating the largest range of different aircraft in service. However, India might get the F-16 to replace older MiG-21s and Floggers in service, and also use the F-16's components for LCA developement. Either way,F-16s will be a useful addon to the IAF,but I can imagine the maintanence nightmare that the F-16s will create.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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I won write : maby you was write some easy, , not right. Pleas excusme
India is hardly client wen they both the weapon they us very hard test. So I think that if they was byeing the f-16 they was try to by not a lot. To steal as much as possible the technical information
Now I now why the Russian programmist is better then americans [logic much symply]
sorry or bed eanglish)



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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In an ATS post entitled "News---Israelis Downed 2 Syrian MiG-29s Last September", ATS member Kyle325is reports that 2 F-16's of the Israeli AF splashed 2 Syrian Mig-29's over the Med back in September 2004.
Although the Mig-29 & the Su-30 are certainly different airframes, I wonder if there was any marketing plan around the timing of this news release - seeing how the Indian AF is looking into both the Su-30 & the F-16.

On a side note, I really don't understand why the Indian AF would get F-16's when so much of their support structure is built around Russian aircraft.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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India would not buy F-16s even they were a better buy in the long run. The Westland issue where the navy's chopper fleet was grounded because American sanctions prohibited the English from supplying American parts for the chopper still leaves a bitter taste. Unless the Americans agree to every nut and bolt being made by HAL, I doubt this will go anywhere. Most of American military sales like the Fire locating radars are in limited number, probably used for evaluation and reverse engineering.
By the way, if the IAF has a say, i have a feeling they'd go in for more Mirages than F16s at this time.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
The Indian/Russian connection may be showing a few cracks. THe majority of Indias front line fighter aircraft are the SU-27/30 etc variants, but now Lockheed Martin has won approval to sell both the P3-C and the C-130J. In addition, the IAF may be considering the F-16 for thier frontline fighter use.



BANGALORE, India - Lockheed Martin Corp., the biggest U.S. defense company, said Thursday it has won export licenses to sell C-130J military transport planes and P-3C Orion naval surveillance aircraft to India.

India is also considering buying the single crew fighter aircraft, F-16 Fighting Falcon, as its front-line fighter aircraft.

Plessas said if India buys the jets, Lockheed Martin would be a reliable supplier of spares and technology, and that the United States was keen to allow joint production of the F-16 in India.

F-16's India Bound?



It is unclear if they would replace the SU's or operate multiple mixed squadrons. While the Su-30MMK is a fine aircraft, there are sign that the IAF may not be as happy as the rhetoric here on ATS would make it seem.



i dont think that india is hot about f 16
in my point view we to see this whole episod like political game to keep company focus to india rather than pakistan
india also can't a take risk of being usa toy




posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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There were no F-16s at the recent Air Show in India...
That might be an indication of this just being hype..



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
There were no F-16s at the recent Air Show in India...
That might be an indication of this just being hype..


The article did say that they were "looking at" but that implies they are not even close to be committed. The other possiblity is that they are having a hard time with maintnence on thier Russian a/c,

The other angle to this is it could just be hype to extract a better deal for a future buy from Russia.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 10:03 AM
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Just another point to add...single engine aircraft are easier to maintain than twin engine ones..



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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another thread on the same topic exists, check it out :

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 07:11 PM
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Dont understand what about you tolking... (Fredt)
contract that have (or can) Russia:
1: su 30mki that was building in India up to 2018
2: 20 January 2005 y. they have contract to bye 12 (one seat) and 4 (two) mig 29 K(Kub)for self Aircraft carrier "Admiral Gorshkov", and come to 2008 this contract can be longest plus 30 mig's.
3 : winn the tander of engine on (traning aircraf)"Intermediate Jet Trainer"
RussiaAL 55I now it working under india modernized this engine. >1000 needed for India, they was building in India too.
4: Indian HAL was sponsored project RRJ (Russian Regionin Aircrat).
5: there is long tollking about project MTA. Now it stoped there start to work (HAL and IRKUT)it was - Multi Transporting Aircraft
6: together working at "Kavery" - LCA engine.
7: modernized mig 29 , discousion of it was in I.A. show
8: posibble co-operation at aircraft of five generation. Now India sad that they working at the havy fighter MCA, and that was full mass 20 ton. Russia yet more think about 35 -40 t. so its not agree in that.
But it can be (However);
...
So what about you tolking about, (firstly thanks Deadylus that he sad the (maintain) other I cant understan the mantnan FredT).. I do not understand from whence such ideas have undertaken . Now i read the news ... and there saying that tollk about, the F-16 not intresting for them, was on the longest time was air show ( of minastry and millitary).
And no liyeing in tollkin with Russia not is.


[edit on 14-2-2005 by Fenix F 308]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 10:17 PM
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Fred edit your post., to maybe "Mig-29 out, F-16 in "

Th Su-30 MKI is india's air superiority fighter cum interceptor. Its a 40 tonne class fighter.

India is looking for 126 20 ton class, multirole foghters.

The F-16 stands as good a chance as the Mig-29 M2 or the grippen or the mirage 2000-5.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 08:25 AM
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Hi,

The addition of F-16s (apparently block 60s from what was displayed at AI2005) is just to show that India is warm to growing India-US relations, and a negotiation gimmick that makes the competition more fierce.

The offer by the Americans is for complete technology transfer whereby the F-16s would be manufactured and customized by HAL like every other Indian-flying platform. Now, unless there is some major financial incentive, this just ain't going to happen.

The logic behind this statement can be seen from the role the medium range combat aircraft is to play.

India is currently retiring a swath of older aircraft types, including MiG-21 (which will be replaced by Bisons and LCA c.2010), but also the -23s, and a significant number of -27s. The -23 and -27 are India's main attack aircraft, and the IAF is esentially an attack airforce. The -23s will be retired in several years, and the -27s in the mid 2010 decade. In addition to this, the IAF will be expanding its combat fleet 60% larger.

The MRCA aircraft is necessary to maintain current fleet levels (from retiring of aircraft) while increasing overal fleet potency in the coming 10 years, until LCA enters full production.

The 126 Medium Range Combat Aircraft is total fallacy. The IAF recently stated in no uncertain terms that there is to be 126 aircraft purchised. 66 of these aircraft are to be Hawk AJTs.

That leaves intial purchase of about 60 MRCA -- about four squadrons, which is (ta-daa!) about the number of active combat aircraft (non-MiG-21) that is to be retired by 2015. MRCA will see intial induction in 2008, with production ramping up around 2010, with deep license production ensures availibility of spares (not for increase in order.) Thus it is my opinion that the MRCA will be a platform IAF already operates, with older-block aircraft already in service to be upgraded to MRCA level and/or with MRCA componenets.

My bet for the MRCA is the Mirage 2000-9. This is because upgradation plans are already confirmed for the MiG-29s (to possible M2-level standard and comprehensive multi-role capability.

-Raj



[edit on 16-2-2005 by rajkhalsa2004]



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