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Trump Tax "Hoax" Would Blow $5 Trillion Hole In Budget Over Next Decade: Analysis

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posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot


Election Economics: Obama's Keynesian Message

Supporting a Keynesian approach, President Obama proposed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the $787 billion bailout program that ballooned to $840 billion in 2011. As a Congressman from Wisconsin, VP candidate Paul Ryan voted no. Currently, the Romney/Ryan team says it is time to inspire the private sector with less government.



econlife.com...




posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

You're correct. I said deficit, I meant to say debt.


And every touting this as a 'big win' for the middle class are only looking at the carrot and not the stick. The stick comes later. After Trump is gone and our kids and grandkids pay for this BS. Again, 'it will pay for itself'. It never has before.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 07:52 AM
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I just want to add, I know it's simplistic, but Obama's approach to the economy was for the government to spend more (tax more) create new government jobs.

The easiest way to do that?

War.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 07:56 AM
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originally posted by: jtma508
a reply to: UKTruth

You're correct. I said deficit, I meant to say debt.


And every touting this as a 'big win' for the middle class are only looking at the carrot and not the stick. The stick comes later. After Trump is gone and our kids and grandkids pay for this BS. Again, 'it will pay for itself'. It never has before.




Seems like a strange attack on Trump - the futures of kids and grandkids have already been screwed by huge redistribution of wealth and saddling of debt heaped on them by both the Bush and Obama administrations.

Putting more control of your money into your own hands now gives some opportunity to save for your kids. Take $3000 a year in tax savings and invest it... in 20 years you could actually make a difference to your kids lives - instead of relying on the govt to screw it up even further.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 07:59 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ScepticScot


Election Economics: Obama's Keynesian Message

Supporting a Keynesian approach, President Obama proposed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the $787 billion bailout program that ballooned to $840 billion in 2011. As a Congressman from Wisconsin, VP candidate Paul Ryan voted no. Currently, the Romney/Ryan team says it is time to inspire the private sector with less government.



econlife.com...


I mentioned the stimulus package ( which was inadequate and badly designed anyway).

That was 2009, Obama was president for 8 years.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 08:01 AM
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The debt and deficit don’t matter today. But they will in a couple of years. Protect yourself, debt free, stop spending, recycle all you can, and save for retirement. And don’t have children.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 08:10 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
I just want to add, I know it's simplistic, but Obama's approach to the economy was for the government to spend more (tax more) create new government jobs.

The easiest way to do that?

War.


Government employment decreased under Obama.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 08:13 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I just want to add, I know it's simplistic, but Obama's approach to the economy was for the government to spend more (tax more) create new government jobs.

The easiest way to do that?

War.


Government employment decreased under Obama.


I'd have to disagree.

Would love to see the stats for that.

And did you take into account the outsourcing for private companies who have only government contracts?



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 08:29 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I just want to add, I know it's simplistic, but Obama's approach to the economy was for the government to spend more (tax more) create new government jobs.

The easiest way to do that?

War.


Government employment decreased under Obama.


I'd have to disagree.

Would love to see the stats for that.

And did you take into account the outsourcing for private companies who have only government contracts?


Hopefully link works. Used this one to avoid accusations of left wing bias.

businessinsider.com/public-sector-jobs-under-various-presidents-2014-10?op=1&IR=T

You make a good point about outsourced government work. Let me see if I can find some figures.

ETA- no idea why my phone is playing silly burgers about posting links.
edit on 16-12-2017 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 08:48 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
The debt and deficit don’t matter today. But they will in a couple of years. Protect yourself, debt free, stop spending, recycle all you can, and save for retirement. And don’t have children.


What's happening in a couple of years that will make the debt and deficit matter?



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 08:53 AM
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the more your ilk and the MSM scream about it the less I listen

law of reversals



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Whats happening is that the Federal Reserve, operating in the background more or less, is slowly raising interest rates. That means the gov't will have to pay more in interest on gov't debt. As the costs of servicing that debt rise, the US will reach a point where it can no longer service the debt kind of like pre-war Poland. At that point they will have to print so much money that eventually it will become near worthless and inflation will spiral out of control. At some point the world will be forced to abandon the Dollar as the world reserve currency and the value of the dollar will near collapse. Much like what happened to the UK in the 1960's when the world abandonned the Brit Pound as the world's reserve currency.

That will be recognized as the "Big Reset" as the US is forced to live within its means. Fortunately for you in the UK, you had a government that was smart enough to figure out how to manage the post-war Big Reset. The US has no such governmental talent. Its basically a national government of grifters, (thieves).



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 09:38 AM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: UKTruth

Whats happening is that the Federal Reserve, operating in the background more or less, is slowly raising interest rates. That means the gov't will have to pay more in interest on gov't debt. As the costs of servicing that debt rise, the US will reach a point where it can no longer service the debt kind of like pre-war Poland. At that point they will have to print so much money that eventually it will become near worthless and inflation will spiral out of control. At some point the world will be forced to abandon the Dollar as the world reserve currency and the value of the dollar will near collapse. Much like what happened to the UK in the 1960's when the world abandonned the Brit Pound as the world's reserve currency.

That will be recognized as the "Big Reset" as the US is forced to live within its means. Fortunately for you in the UK, you had a government that was smart enough to figure out how to manage the post-war Big Reset. The US has no such governmental talent. Its basically a national government of grifters, (thieves).



The federal government controls the interest rate it pays on debt. It also controls the currency the debt is used in. There is no scenario where the government debt becomes unserviceable due to interest rates.

The UK had ceased to be the world's main reserve currency long before the 1960s. It does remain however a reserve currency to this date.

Debt defaults in Poland and elsewhere in Europe in the 1930s where the result of debt owed in foreign currencies. The US only owes debt denominated in the US dollar.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: TonyS

Slowly raising interest rates???
You mean very slowly - the slowest in history/ Like that you mean?



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 09:59 AM
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Yet another"Trumpacolpse"thread.Stfu.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I just want to add, I know it's simplistic, but Obama's approach to the economy was for the government to spend more (tax more) create new government jobs.

The easiest way to do that?

War.


Government employment decreased under Obama.


I'd have to disagree.

Would love to see the stats for that.

And did you take into account the outsourcing for private companies who have only government contracts?


Hopefully link works. Used this one to avoid accusations of left wing bias.

businessinsider.com/public-sector-jobs-under-various-presidents-2014-10?op=1&IR=T

You make a good point about outsourced government work. Let me see if I can find some figures.

ETA- no idea why my phone is playing silly burgers about posting links.


Can't find anything on private sector jobs dependent on government spending.

However as spending as % GDP under Obama was (with exception of 09/10) within normal range, I think it would be a stretch to claim he increased the number of jobs wholly dependent on government spending.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

True, its been slow but it will necessarily speed up a bit in 2018. Excellent article over at the WSJ on this topic, but behind a pay wall. Basically, the answer is that the Feds actions in response to the financial crisis, while necessary, have set the stage for a dangerous way forward for the Fed. Raising rates will normalize the economy and increase borrowing all the while the Fed tries to reduce its balance sheet of debt. Raising rates too quickly will cause inflation. Too slowly and there will continue to be to much liquidity, slowing growth into a possble recession.

Either way they go, as time goes on recession is invevitable and that will reduce the governments revenues necessary to pay interest on the debt which will doubtless cause the US credit rating to be lowered again.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

The Feds have no choice except to raise the rates.



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: UKTruth

True, its been slow but it will necessarily speed up a bit in 2018. Excellent article over at the WSJ on this topic, but behind a pay wall. Basically, the answer is that the Feds actions in response to the financial crisis, while necessary, have set the stage for a dangerous way forward for the Fed. Raising rates will normalize the economy and increase borrowing all the while the Fed tries to reduce its balance sheet of debt. Raising rates too quickly will cause inflation. Too slowly and there will continue to be to much liquidity, slowing growth into a possble recession.

Either way they go, as time goes on recession is invevitable and that will reduce the governments revenues necessary to pay interest on the debt which will doubtless cause the US credit rating to be lowered again.


Why would raising interest rates increase borrowing?



posted on Dec, 16 2017 @ 01:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: UKTruth

True, its been slow but it will necessarily speed up a bit in 2018. Excellent article over at the WSJ on this topic, but behind a pay wall. Basically, the answer is that the Feds actions in response to the financial crisis, while necessary, have set the stage for a dangerous way forward for the Fed. Raising rates will normalize the economy and increase borrowing all the while the Fed tries to reduce its balance sheet of debt. Raising rates too quickly will cause inflation. Too slowly and there will continue to be to much liquidity, slowing growth into a possble recession.

Either way they go, as time goes on recession is invevitable and that will reduce the governments revenues necessary to pay interest on the debt which will doubtless cause the US credit rating to be lowered again.


Why would raising interest rates increase borrowing?


I would like to second this question.



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