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Health care reform has failed, it's time to go back to tax reform

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posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
I feel a return to homesteading, batering and precious metals etc as currency is the only fix. Free crap, free healthcare and free everything else has lead to rampaging population growth and unskilled breathers.

If you cant provide for yourself and your family, the kindest solution is to let nature take its course. Soon polution, and all the worlds woahs disappear.

These arguments will continue and the population of unskilled non participants will get more demanding for things they dont even know the value of...



That spells the intellectual death of the nation. You're not going to raise a society of doctors, lawyers, engineers, and scientists by home schooling and dropping out of the academic world.




posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Who dropped out? We hold a paper bound library full of knowledge. My daughter is scoring twice as high as the highest mean peak in the state of Ohio in math, science reading etc...

She can identify between 30 and 50 wild plants...most temperate domestic plants...does basic multiplication and division and shes 6.5 years old.

Both her parents and the state of Ohio curriculum have made her superior by far than all her peers...she can raise livestock, preserve foods and in 10 years will be able to fend for herself...

What does modern institutionalized, tax funded waste of humanities time education spew out?...just "owed" throngs of me too cry babies unable to care for themselves or anyone else.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: worldstarcountry

There's really not enough information in the "leak" to draw too many conclusions. It looks like cuts for the very bottom and the very top are certain.

The proposal collapses the 7-tier tax scale to three. The top tier would go down 4.5% and the bottom would go up from 10% to 12% but by doubling the standard deduction, it will cover everyone in the 10% bracket.

But what's the rate for the middle tier and what are they doing with the personal exemption? If they nix that, that would offset about 2/3 of that assumed net decrease in taxable income from doubling the standard deduction if I'm not mistaken.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan


Healthcare Reform started failing on March 23, 2010...the day Obama signed the PPACA into law.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: BlueJacket
Thats quite impressive. Now just make sure she is well trained in firearms use and safety and you pretty much on the way to raising a perfect daughter.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 05:48 PM
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Shouldn't he just hand off to Pence? I hate to think of the outcome, but at least Pence has a better chance of getting something -- anything -- done. Maybe Trump can just go play golf or something. The guy is useless.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: worldstarcountry

Thank you. I know my cynicism is great in this thread...but dangit...parenting is the answer and I am really proud of my daughter.

Your response means a lot to me...thanks again

Eta...we have a range on the homestead...her training right now is don touch, dont point at yourself or anyone else...never touch the trigger...and every fire arm stays in daddys safe.

Mom out shoots me with sub compacts at 50 feet. But look out for me with a 4.5 inch barrel or longer.


edit on 26-9-2017 by BlueJacket because: Eta



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: Dudemo5


It's the Republicans in Congress. Not Trump.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 06:01 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated



The tax is just passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices.


How generous of them. They're making billions in profit but that's not enough, the little guy with barely anything has to hold them up.

Yeah, they're not the issue at all.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Edumakated



The tax is just passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices.


How generous of them. They're making billions in profit but that's not enough, the little guy with barely anything has to hold them up.

Yeah, they're not the issue at all.


You are free to start your own company and distribute the profits as you see fit.

By all means, tell your shareholders and investors that you want to give away your profits and pay more corporate taxes. Im sure Kleiner Perkins and other VC firms will be knocking down your door to get a piece if the action.

You are also free to voluntarily send in more income taxes or decline to take any deductions allowed since you feel the govt needs more tax revenue.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 07:25 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Dudemo5


It's the Republicans in Congress. Not Trump.


BS.

It's both.

Trump has very few specific policy recommendations. He simply does not deal at a level of granularity that would be useful to anyone trying to drum up support. Also, his near-daily twitter fests and social faux-pas keep Congress completely distracted, as they are forced to spend their "press time" avoiding the elephant in the room instead of doing PR for various policy suggestions so they can sell their ideas to the American people.

If you can't see that Trump is part of the problem, I can't help you.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:15 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. One year I think it was like 6 or 7 years ago I paid a negative 19% tax. Yes I actually got back more money than I put in.

We need a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage doesn't have to be much 10 or 12% would be more than enough to end up getting more than we already do. You got to understand that the Uber rich don't pay as much in taxes they use tax Havens like 501c's.

A flat tax is the only fair tax. I love it when people say the rich need to pay their fair share okay lowers their taxes by like 20% and then they'll be closer to paying their fair share.

Jaden



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: Masterjaden

Yes sir...you are correct



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: Masterjaden


RE: www.wsj.com...

If the top 20% of income earners pay 84% of all Federal Taxes, who will make up for the loss of revenue when those top 20% aren't paying any more than the Middle Class?

Will the people who earn less than $12,000 be required to START paying taxes? Get ready... a whopping 65% of working Americans make less than $12,000 a year, according to: www.usatoday.com... . A flat-tax imposed upon their meager income MIGHT compensate for the loss of revenue from the top 20%, since there are so many Americans in this income range.

edit on 9/26/2017 by carewemust because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Aazadan

It doesn't matter whether or not he actually lowers taxes for the middle class, only that he says he did. Good enough for me! MAGA!


Do you realize how dumb and ignorant you sound.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: Dudemo5
Shouldn't he just hand off to Pence? I hate to think of the outcome, but at least Pence has a better chance of getting something -- anything -- done. Maybe Trump can just go play golf or something. The guy is useless.


There's not really much Pence can do in terms of legislation. He can function as a tiebreaking vote in the Senate, which is pretty relevant right now, but in terms of setting a course he has little to no influence other than perhaps some back room deal making.

It's all Trump and Congress. Trump had three big goals for this year: Tax reform, budget reform, and health care reform. He has failed on health care 3 times now, and taxes twice as congress just keeps cycling between them. The budget will be fought over when the debt ceiling is made into an issue (and don't expect much there... Trump has proposed a lot in new spending).

Tax reform was a cornerstone of his campaign. The wealthy want their tax cuts. Problem is, Trumps tax plan that he ran on, was utterly unsustainable... it required something like a constant 8% growth to gdp in order to break even. The core message of simplifying the tax code is a good one, and that resonates with pretty much every single person in America. But, as long as we all want our own little exceptions and tax breaks to every little thing out there... it's not something that's ever going to be realistic.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:38 PM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Aazadan

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. One year I think it was like 6 or 7 years ago I paid a negative 19% tax. Yes I actually got back more money than I put in.

We need a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage doesn't have to be much 10 or 12% would be more than enough to end up getting more than we already do. You got to understand that the Uber rich don't pay as much in taxes they use tax Havens like 501c's.

A flat tax is the only fair tax. I love it when people say the rich need to pay their fair share okay lowers their taxes by like 20% and then they'll be closer to paying their fair share.

Jaden


The wealthy pay an effective rate of about 14 or 15% right now. Everyone else pays an effective rate of about 11%. Why should the middle class face a tax increase in the name of tax reform, when they're not the ones that can afford it?

Flat tax is just a code word for making the poor pay more in order to give the rich tax breaks. When the poor have so little in taxable assets, as is currently the case... then you simply can't make up any substantial amount of revenue by taxing them more. It doesn't matter what percent you tax them at.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:43 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Masterjaden


RE: www.wsj.com...

If the top 20% of income earners pay 84% of all Federal Taxes, who will make up for the loss of revenue when those top 20% aren't paying any more than the Middle Class?

Will the people who earn less than $12,000 be required to START paying taxes? Get ready... a whopping 65% of working Americans make less than $12,000 a year, according to: www.usatoday.com... . A flat-tax imposed upon their meager income MIGHT compensate for the loss of revenue from the top 20%, since there are so many Americans in this income range.


65% of the 138 million working americans is 89.7 million people. 12,000/year is 1,076,400,000,000 or just over 1 trillion dollars. Just how much are you trying to make up? A 10% tax is only 100 billion which comes to about 2% of federal spending. Putting aside any issues of morality, or that they need money to support themselves... there simply isn't usable amounts of money in that demographic to tax.

The poor aren't some massive untapped revenue stream. You could tax that entire 65% of working people, 100% of their income and you would still only cover 20% of federal spending. Leaving the other 35% to cover the remaining 80%.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:45 PM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Aazadan

Who dropped out? We hold a paper bound library full of knowledge. My daughter is scoring twice as high as the highest mean peak in the state of Ohio in math, science reading etc...

She can identify between 30 and 50 wild plants...most temperate domestic plants...does basic multiplication and division and shes 6.5 years old.

Both her parents and the state of Ohio curriculum have made her superior by far than all her peers...she can raise livestock, preserve foods and in 10 years will be able to fend for herself...

What does modern institutionalized, tax funded waste of humanities time education spew out?...just "owed" throngs of me too cry babies unable to care for themselves or anyone else.



I would give some actual responses why, but I don't want to derail the thread. Perhaps another time.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Hey fair enough.
But I do believe the stated points are relevant to your thread



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