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Senate Republicans admit defeat on health bill as Collins declares her opposition

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posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: carewemust


I'm not arguing with anything you said




posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: RomeByFire

Ironically, I'm not "optimistic" about any of those things. Don't forget that I'm a proud tree hugging, immigrant loving, no meat eating, pacifist libtard. I want a strong social safety net, an end to our overseas empire, and most of that other hippie stuff. In other words, I don't want the GOP to push through most of its stated political agenda because most of their stated policies are the complete opposite of the policies I advocate.

However, there's still more than enough time for Trump & the GOP controlled Congress to make amends with each other. There's no way I'll personally gloat over any of their current policy failures because there's still plenty of time for them to change course. I even have hypothetical nightmares that Trump will replace a lot of his Cabinet members with Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, Rumsfeld, Yoo, and the rest of the neocon gang that knew how to get major things put into law. His biggest snafu right now is his belligerent tone with the rest of his party's powerbrokers, which could easily be fixed if he had competent people around him.

So I guess we're seeing the situation from completely opposite perspectives. If this were a football game, his presidency is still in the first quarter and the entire House of Representatives is up for election at halftime (along with 1/3 of the Senate). Who can predict the final scores when less than a quarter has been played yet?

(get it get it? i'm using football analogies because of the recent football "scandal". - high fives self - )


I'm under the impression that our government is controlled by forces behind the scenes. Forces who are devil worshipping pedophiles who want global domination through a New World Order.

You're much, much more optimistic than I.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 07:02 PM
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originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: enlightenedservant



Putting every one on Medicare will be an even bigger disaster....as for the above plus it will bankrupt seniors and the Medicare system that is already stressed due to putting disabled on Medicare.


Medicaid for the Poor.

Medicare for the sick non-poor.

Free Market for everyone else.

If Medicaid and Medicare are properly funded/expanded, this system would be everything Donald Trump (used to) promise.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 07:03 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
That's what you get when you, really, have almost 10 years to work on a healthcare bill and do nothing.

Obama was elected on the cornerstone of Healthcare reform. A forward thinking politician or strategist would, I would have thought, started planning republican healthcare reform almost as soon as Obama took office or won the election. But....I suppose not.

Why do we keep electing the same idiots to congress decade after decade?


There's basically two facts at play here:
#1. The ACA as written is basically as low cost health insurance as humanly possible. That's putting aside how the Republicans have tried to starve it. But if allowed to function, it would be working better than any other insurance system we could devise.
#2. No one in the US wants to get away from the insurance based system. Insurance in my opinion doesn't work as a method of primary care, because catastrophic illness is common. However, Congress is scared to implement anything that can replace insurance, because it would essentially involve legislating away a huge chunk of jobs, and an entire industry. That's career suicide for whatever party implements it.

So here we are. Stuck with the worlds best insurance system, and a government that wants to make that insurance system collapse.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: RomeByFire

And you'd probably be correct, though I'd guess it's more accurate to say there are several factions of them whose powerful minions are fighting each other to gain larger pieces of the "pie" that they already collectively control. Kind of like infighting between uber powerful siblings.

Though I'm still pretty pessimistic about winning this "football game" anytime soon. There's just way too much time left for the GOP to turn things around. Now if they lose both chambers of Congress during the 2018 midterms, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Trump started working with Democrats a lot more. But he'd have to stop stirring up domestic hornets' nests for him to have any success with that.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan


Lets see what leaders propose when they speak to millions of Americans tonight at 9pm EDT.

www.cnn.com...

I think there will be a lot more sympathy for Bernie Sanders' argument/proposal tonight, than there was last week.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

We'll see. Honestly, I'm not even fully behind Bernies plan. The only part of it that I truly like is that it lowers costs for us, and it's fully funded.

Anyways, it's on after my bedtime, I'll catch the highlights in the morning.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 08:47 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
I hope people learn from this experience. I am hopeful reading some of the wise posts of many here

Sober and honest reflection in the end will allow one to see the truth

McCain and Collins will go down in history as heroes who prevented a human tragedy this bill would have resulted in.

McCain is far from perfect, indeed but there’s the old story of the gangster who near the end of his life risked his own life to save someone else’s and by that deed many of his past sins were erased so God let him in heaven.


Good deeds are what we need to do for each other every day of the week


By faith we are saved not good works or deeds.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 08:59 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Willtell
I hope people learn from this experience. I am hopeful reading some of the wise posts of many here

Sober and honest reflection in the end will allow one to see the truth

McCain and Collins will go down in history as heroes who prevented a human tragedy this bill would have resulted in.

McCain is far from perfect, indeed but there’s the old story of the gangster who near the end of his life risked his own life to save someone else’s and by that deed many of his past sins were erased so God let him in heaven.


Good deeds are what we need to do for each other every day of the week


By faith we are saved not good works or deeds.


That’s sectarian dogma; faith without action is useless

One only gets to know through actions, often preceded by faith

Faith is the passive; deeds are the active to gain real knowledge

Not having both and only relying on one is like trying to walk with one leg



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Willtell
I hope people learn from this experience. I am hopeful reading some of the wise posts of many here

Sober and honest reflection in the end will allow one to see the truth

McCain and Collins will go down in history as heroes who prevented a human tragedy this bill would have resulted in.

McCain is far from perfect, indeed but there’s the old story of the gangster who near the end of his life risked his own life to save someone else’s and by that deed many of his past sins were erased so God let him in heaven.


Good deeds are what we need to do for each other every day of the week


By faith we are saved not good works or deeds.


That’s sectarian dogma; faith without action is useless

One only gets to know through actions, often preceded by faith

Faith is the passive; deeds are the active to gain real knowledge

Not having both and only relying on one is like trying to walk with one leg


Without faith in God and Jesus sacrifice then is that specific enough? works follow IF you have those.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: enlightenedservant



Putting every one on Medicare will be an even bigger disaster....as for the above plus it will bankrupt seniors and the Medicare system that is already stressed due to putting disabled on Medicare.


Medicaid for the Poor.

Medicare for the sick non-poor.

Free Market for everyone else.

If Medicaid and Medicare are properly funded/expanded, this system would be everything Donald Trump (used to) promise.


Did you mean Medicare for the elderly and sick non-poor?
You don't think those retirees can afford free market, do you?



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 03:02 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

Your "free market" hasn't worked out. Look at Shkreli?

If you get cancer, you are even more deep in manicure than with only having cancer - plus, you are now forever in debt!


Man, I am happy that I am not living in the Land of the Fear ("Free".. HA!). This year, I had an operation. It all went well, after some days at the hospital I went home, had some wound inspections done by my physician and that was it.
I paid nill. Besides my insurance, which EVERYBODY here has to pay for (or going private/premium, but that wouldn't have resulted in better care, just a nicer room at the hospital - I had a two bed room, all was good.).

Sometimes, you just do not realize how FU**ED UP a system is, because you do not know about alternatives. This is the case for the people of the USA, in my opinion.


"FREE MARKET" HA!
Thats a synonym for ultra-expensive while being ultra-important (=life-saving and patented so no luck with genericas) medicine!



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 04:45 AM
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a reply to: FredT

What I cannot work out for the life of me, is how it is that the senate and the congress between them, could not figure out a way to replace the ACA, without setting coverage numbers back years, by kicking millions of people off the insurance rosters. These people must have been elected to their positions for a reason, surely?

It boggles the mind that no better, cheaper methodology has been arrived at in the minds of those elected to lead states and represent their people, which does not also call for unreasonable persecution of those with pre-existing conditions, the working poor, those with mental health, those who have been pregnant at some stage (all people who stand to either get kicked right off the registers, or be charged achingly large premiums, under those new plans which have come forward).

Its almost as if the prices are fixed by those offering the service, in such a way as to make the issue far more complicated, the price of care far more difficult to shift in the peoples favour, than Trump and his legions of lobotomised drool factories, could ever have imagined! What a shocker! And even worse for the hypercapitalists, corporatists and their Stockholm Syndrome suffering supporters at ground level, this slow motion train wreck of an effort to repeal and replace the ACA has highlighted nothing more, than the fact that making care affordable is only possible, if you control the supply of the care, by making your doctors and nurses employees of the state, and your hospitals and care delivery infrastructure, property of the state, thereby, the people, not private organisations.

The reason I say this is pretty damned simple... If it were possible to get the care that America deserves by dealing with private companies, America would already have it.

The self interest and greed involved at the corporate level, the boardroom, the shareholders of these "businesses", has a far greater amount of affect on what things cost, than do the actual costs of producing either medical equipment, drugs, or the delivery of face to face care by professional medical practitioners. REMOVING these "captains of industry" (read: Morally decrepit wastes of skin) from the pecking order, is the ONLY way to get the people the care quality they deserve, at a price that the nation, or the individual for that matter, can afford. The sooner this is accepted in the United States, the better for peoples health outcomes, and given that the outcome is the crucial aspect here, I really think it is about time the United States government, and indeed those who vote for its components, stopped being so precious about free market capitalists and how hurt they would be to be left out of medical care provision.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Here were the top 15 lobbying spenders by industry for 2016. I highlighted the industries that are directly related to our healthcare situation:


1. Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $248,733,749
2. Insurance $152,930,996
3. Business Associations $143,141,396
4. Electronics Mfg & Equip $119,587,108
5. Oil & Gas $119,129,657
6. Electric Utilities $114,331,635
7. Real Estate $104,357,207
8. Hospitals/Nursing Homes $95,221,803
9. Securities & Investment $95,215,398
10. Air Transport $86,679,002
11. Telecom Services $86,058,723
12. Health Professionals $85,061,148
13. Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $78,640,413
14. Health Services/HMOs $78,463,804
15. Education $74,228,805

www.opensecrets.org...

And remember, this is just lobbying money. These industries also spend massive amounts of money on advertisements, especially the pharmaceutical industry. Many healthcare related companies are great investments on the stock market. Our health industries are also huge employers, too.

In other words, not many politicians are willing to hurt their own investments, reduce their lobbying money, or threaten the major employers in their own districts. I doubt that even some major World War and the devastation of our country as a whole would push them to take profits out of our healthcare system.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: ManFromEurope

Thats what bankruptcy is for. you dont have to b ein debt after cancer if you truly wish to be.



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