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Senate Republicans admit defeat on health bill as Collins declares her opposition

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posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: RomeByFire

I don't believe that based on your responses to me in some past threads. Just had to say that after seeing several of your comments today.




posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

You do realize that without healthcare reform...tort reform.....drug price reform.....even single payer will continue to bankrupt what is left of the middle class?

Putting every one on Medicare will be an even bigger disaster....as for the above plus it will bankrupt seniors and the Medicare system that is already stressed due to putting disabled on Medicare.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Too many are blinded now to the actual matters of governance because of their own rhetoric which has stolen their reason from them.

Many Democrats have been in this situation for years which is why they can't do anything with power either.

I have always explained that as the reason I avoid lying, because if you lie to others long enough, you'll begin to lie to yourself, and when you start believing your own lies, you are lost.

The Republicans now believe their own lies.

edit on 25-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: RomeByFire

Sorry, it seemed like gloating. My bad.

I'm just saying that it's too early to write anything off, good or bad. It took the ACA roughly a full year of debate before it passed, and that was with a lot of amendments and public discourse. The GOP's healthcare bills this year haven't had nearly that much debate or public discourse.

I'm almost obsessed with a single payer healthcare plan so I don't particularly care for the ACA or any of the GOP's current alternatives. However there's still almost 14 more months before the mid-term elections, which means that they can still try to lock up Hillary, build the wall, repeal the ACA, bomb & invade ISIS-held lands, etc. That's why I'm taking all of these current "no" votes with a grain of salt.


I'm not as optimistic as you.

This used to be a conspiracy board, haven't seen it posted, but I've seen a few things about how US special forces just got caught with their pants down kicking it in ISIS controlled areas by satellite imagery (could be fake, could be real - we used to discuss stuff like this at one point in time).

I wasn't a fan of the Affordable Care Act to begin with.

I really have a hard time establishing a difference between (D) and (R). Aside from the partisan cheerleaders who do their campaigning for them, they never seem to be interested in doing what the American people clearly want (healthcare reform).

FYI I cannot stand Hillary, but let's be realistic here. She's not going anywhere. Trump himself even backpeddled his "lock her up," claims saying "we should take it easy on her, she's been through a lot."

It was an empty and hollow propaganda piece to get him elected. Just like each and every campaign promise.

Just like each and every presidential-candidate does.

It would just be nice for those who claimed that Donald Trump was "anti-establishment," and would do all these things that will clearly never be done admit that they were conned, and duped into voting for more of the same.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: RomeByFire

I don't believe that based on your responses to me in some past threads. Just had to say that after seeing several of your comments today.


If you want to have personal discussions, shoot me a private message.

I'll make sure to ignore it.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

How can you say that if you don't even know the versions of the plans that I'm for? I rarely go into detail on my healthcare plans so I'm curious why you're jumping to those specific conclusions? Even now, I feel no need to talk about them because I don't think either party will actually implement them.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: RomeByFire

I don't believe that based on your responses to me in some past threads. Just had to say that after seeing several of your comments today.


If you want to have personal discussions, shoot me a private message.

I'll make sure to ignore it.


Yes. That is precisely as I recalled you being.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: FredT

Perhaps someone in the GOP should look at the 1956 Republican Platform.

Lots of good ideas there to start with.



Holy cow, you should write a thread on that. Just skimming it breaks my heart over what they've become since then.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

I was using a general single payer plan to describe my post.
I should have been more specific.

My issue is the the government has a LOUSY track record for doing things efficiently.
And citizens who pay for insurance need relief from the horrendous mess that is un-ACA.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: FredT

All 100 or toss the Governor out to the curb. Need help? I'll come to your state, kick n the door to the mansion and take em to the curb like a sack of trash.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: Abysha

That’s what happens when you sell out to the Southern Segrgationalists and the Religous Right.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: RomeByFire

So by your own admission you are aware of the problem but want to fall in with the current socially acceptable (and praised) Trump bashing?

Maybe government was never the problem. Afterall, with biases and dissonance such as this, they were simply growing unchecked as designed.


Uh, sure, if that's how you see it.

I didn't support Bush. I didn't support Obama. I didn't support Clinton. I didn't support Sanders. I didn't support Trump.

I don't care what is and isn't socially acceptable and praised.

I don't support authoritarians. I don't buy into Trump's truckload of bull#. I don't know how any intelligent man or woman could.


So you don't support the executive branch. Fine, good. What about the other two? You know the ones who make and uphold the laws.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:24 PM
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Republicans, of a certain variety, are just really poor losers and never learned good sportsmanship.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: Willtell


The current crop of GOP, Establishment leaders and Congress critters, don't have a "heart" to do ANY THING...NOTHING! After 9 months with total control, the only significant "win" they can list, is replacing one Conservative Supreme Court Justice, with ANOTHER Conservative Supreme Court Justice.

President Trump should give these world class deceitful liars, 1 MONTH to pass comprehensive tax-cuts. If they don't do it solo, get it done with a combo of Democrats and Republicans. (I think he now knows for sure that Republicans are impotent.)



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:33 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
That's what you get when you, really, have almost 10 years to work on a healthcare bill and do nothing.

Obama was elected on the cornerstone of Healthcare reform. A forward thinking politician or strategist would, I would have thought, started planning republican healthcare reform almost as soon as Obama took office or won the election. But....I suppose not.

Why do we keep electing the same idiots to congress decade after decade?

Well, the truth of the matter is that the Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act) is significantly what Republicans wanted to begin with.

Yes, that's right - they have been lying out their asses all these years.

Don't believe me?

Go check out the HEART bill. There are differences, but similarities certainly exist.

Or how about these weasel words from the Heritage Foundation:

The confusion arises from the fact that 20 years ago, I held the view that as a technical matter, some form of requirement to purchase insurance was needed in a near-universal insurance market to avoid massive instability through "adverse selection" (insurers avoiding bad risks and healthy people declining coverage). At that time, President Clinton was proposing a universal health care plan, and Heritage and I devised a viable alternative.

My view was shared at the time by many conservative experts, including American Enterprise Institute (AEI) scholars, as well as most non-conservative analysts. Even libertarian-conservative icon Milton Friedman, in a 1991 Wall Street Journal article, advocated replacing Medicare and Medicaid "with a requirement that every U.S. family unit have a major medical insurance policy."

My idea was hardly new. Heritage did not invent the individual mandate.

But the version of the health insurance mandate Heritage and I supported in the 1990s had three critical features. First, it was not primarily intended to push people to obtain protection for their own good, but to protect others. Like auto damage liability insurance required in most states, our requirement focused on "catastrophic" costs — so hospitals and taxpayers would not have to foot the bill for the expensive illness or accident of someone who did not buy insurance.

Second, we sought to induce people to buy coverage primarily through the carrot of a generous health credit or voucher, financed in part by a fundamental reform of the tax treatment of health coverage, rather than by a stick.

And third, in the legislation we helped craft that ultimately became a preferred alternative to ClintonCare, the "mandate" was actually the loss of certain tax breaks for those not choosing to buy coverage, not a legal requirement.

It's really funny reading where they argue that when they wanted to require people to buy health insurance, they didn't actually want an individual mandate.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: RomeByFire

Ironically, I'm not "optimistic" about any of those things. Don't forget that I'm a proud tree hugging, immigrant loving, no meat eating, pacifist libtard. I want a strong social safety net, an end to our overseas empire, and most of that other hippie stuff. In other words, I don't want the GOP to push through most of its stated political agenda because most of their stated policies are the complete opposite of the policies I advocate.

However, there's still more than enough time for Trump & the GOP controlled Congress to make amends with each other. There's no way I'll personally gloat over any of their current policy failures because there's still plenty of time for them to change course. I even have hypothetical nightmares that Trump will replace a lot of his Cabinet members with Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, Rumsfeld, Yoo, and the rest of the neocon gang that knew how to get major things put into law. His biggest snafu right now is his belligerent tone with the rest of his party's powerbrokers, which could easily be fixed if he had competent people around him.

So I guess we're seeing the situation from completely opposite perspectives. If this were a football game, his presidency is still in the first quarter and the entire House of Representatives is up for election at halftime (along with 1/3 of the Senate). Who can predict the final scores when less than a quarter has been played yet?

(get it get it? i'm using football analogies because of the recent football "scandal". - high fives self - )



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Fair enough. I certainly don't trust any of the Repubs or Dems to push through a satsfactory plan, mainly because the health insurance industry, pharmaceutical industry, and their affiliates won't allow it. They give too much money to both sides to let profits be taken out of healthcare. Hence why my ideas are still just "pipedreams".



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: RomeByFire

So by your own admission you are aware of the problem but want to fall in with the current socially acceptable (and praised) Trump bashing?

Maybe government was never the problem. Afterall, with biases and dissonance such as this, they were simply growing unchecked as designed.


Uh, sure, if that's how you see it.

I didn't support Bush. I didn't support Obama. I didn't support Clinton. I didn't support Sanders. I didn't support Trump.

I don't care what is and isn't socially acceptable and praised.

I don't support authoritarians. I don't buy into Trump's truckload of bull#. I don't know how any intelligent man or woman could.


So you don't support the executive branch. Fine, good. What about the other two? You know the ones who make and uphold the laws.


Since I have to explicitly lay it out:

I don't support my federal government?

Why. The Fed. Act of 1913. Operation Paperclip. Operation Northwoods. Tuskegee Experiments. Pearl Harbor. Golf of Tonkin. 9/11. Special interest groups. Political action committes. Revolving door of lobbyists of corporation and government. Brazen corruption through arming, funding, and training of terrorist organizations globally. Secret societies that exist within high echelons of government (the Bush dynasty, for example). Nation building and the complicit media to "sell," wars. Massive defense budgets while pennies used for infrastructure, healthcare, education, and veterans aid (who fight said wars). Possible assassination attempts of sitting presidents by forces behind the scenes (JFK, RFK, for example). The murder of Fred Hampton. The murder of MLK. The countless number of others who have been murdered by overt forces connected to government apparatuses (David Cassalora). The overthrowing of democratically elected governments globally to implement puppet dictators for better oil and material prices. The "business as usual," model used when trading with known exporters of terrorism such as Saudi Arabia (15 of the 19 hijackers were SA on 9/11). Virtually NO oversight into The Federal Reserve - actually, NO oversight into the Fed (thanks Ben, Janet). A dollar that has lost over 95% of its purchasing value in mere decades. A Congress that reaps the benefits of what only they have access to (better healthcare, for example).

And my list could go on, and on, and on, and on.

I don't trust my government. Thing is - my government isn't my country. I love my country, I don't love my government.

And I certainly don't have any love for the puppets plastered on the television telling all of useful and gullible people what they want to hear.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:43 PM
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I don't trust my government. Thing is - my government isn't my country. I love my country, I don't love my government.



Thing is, the two are becoming extremely difficult to separate. Literally, covered in roads.

Can't say I hold much argument in your stance however.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 06:47 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



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