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Kneeling during the anthem is honoring what our founding fathers fought for

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posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Exactly. Being patriotic is about your actions towards respecting and extending rights to others not about honoring a piece of cloth. Honoring the flag is the cherry on top of patriotism that comes AFTER all the other stuff.




posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: MrPitts

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: MrPitts

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: IRexxx

The irony is that wearing a piece of clothing with the flag on it is legally disrespecting the flag.


90% of the American public would disagree with that even though it's right because "patriotism" I have nothing against patriotism but at least be educated in it is all I am asking. Haha.


90%?

lol where'd you find that statistic at. I'd ask for a source, but I know one doesn't exist.

"Deny ignorance," hahahahahahahaha


Yeah because people take other peoples comments seriously and literal because "reasons".

The " MAJORITY"

and arguing over semantics is overrated.


Oh, so it's now the majority?

What percentage is it now? Still 90? 85? 70? 62?

Come on, man, specifics.

Arguing over semantics? Not what semantics means.

You make a claim, you back that claim up with empirical evidence. This isn't 4chan, or Reddit - it's how ATS works.

Minimalize it all you'd like - you made the claim, a very stupid one at that,



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:14 PM
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Instead of getting all bent out of shape about athletes kneeling, or in the case of Tennessee/Seattle staying in their respective lockerrooms, during the nat'l. anthem, why not find out why they feel it necessary to do this. That would seem, to me anyway, a far more useful thing to do then slamming them for doing something that is within their rights to do.

Has that little thought even occurred to some of you??

They all have reasons for doing so. Not one of which I've heard is bad, or evil, or worthy of "son of a bitch" status. Or getting "fired", as our President would have us believe.

Ask 'em. Many, if not all of 'em, have made statements as to why. Inform yourselves, rather than have a Pavlovian moment.

There are several athletes out there who have made compelling statements.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Really wish you would answer this.

Say you find yourself in another country at a sporting event and they play their national anthem. are you going to stand? If so why?

Probably. Because I don't want to start a fight.


Would you and stand and I am 100% sure you would and why? Is it because you respect their flag so much or is it because you just dont want to be disrespectful to the people that do?

This isn't about foreigners and the flag. It is about American citizens and the flag. Not the same comparison and as I said, I'd do it more out of not wanting to start any issues with the locals than anything. It's not like I believe in their flag or respect it or anything. It's just the polite thing to do when I'm not in my home country.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: IRexxx

So when the anthem plays on TV you stand? Where's your outrage at the countless people that go to the bathroom during the anthem? What about those that choose that time to get a beer? Hell, prior to 2009 when the government gave the NFL a ton of money all the players sat in the back during the anthem.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: notsure1

It's OK you can read the comments made by the owners and see if they supported the president's comments....

What about whole teams that didn't even take the field.

Those donations gone missing will hurt.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: MrPitts

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: MrPitts

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: IRexxx

The irony is that wearing a piece of clothing with the flag on it is legally disrespecting the flag.


90% of the American public would disagree with that even though it's right because "patriotism" I have nothing against patriotism but at least be educated in it is all I am asking. Haha.


90%?

lol where'd you find that statistic at. I'd ask for a source, but I know one doesn't exist.

"Deny ignorance," hahahahahahahaha


Yeah because people take other peoples comments seriously and literal because "reasons".

The " MAJORITY"

and arguing over semantics is overrated.


Oh, so it's now the majority?

What percentage is it now? Still 90? 85? 70? 62?

Come on, man, specifics.

Arguing over semantics? Not what semantics means.

You make a claim, you back that claim up with empirical evidence. This isn't 4chan, or Reddit - it's how ATS works.

Minimalize it all you'd like - you made the claim, a very stupid one at that,


How is it stupid and just because I threw a number on the table, you of all people decided to pick on that. 90% - Majority whats the difference? Who cares except you.

You would be suprised how stupid the average American is in regards to what is actually true and what isn't.

Thirdly, I don't need to give specifics because it wasn't needed and just a generalization of how true the statement is. You think I'm wrong? Go outside to a random populated town and ask 50 people about the US code for wearing flag apparel. Guarantee you 90% of the sample wouldn't know or care.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: kyleplatinum

Then don't buy a ticket. Simple as that, right?



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Plus, there is no law saying you have to honor the National Anthem or the flag. You don't have to salute or put your hand over your heart during the Pledge of Allegiance either. Respecting the flag is a personal choice you make when you see it. Requiring respect is authoritarian to the core.

This action is also a form of protest. Which is another right covered by the First Amendment. You can't complain about it being violent because they are just kneeling and not doing anything else.




In fact, the SCOTUS has ruled on a very similar issue and it is apparent that Trump is attempting to cause the deprivation of these players' First Amendment rights by suggesting the players be fired or that people boycott the NFL:


West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943), is a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States holding that the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution protected students from being forced to salute the American flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance in school. The Court's 6–3 decision, delivered by Justice Robert H. Jackson, is remembered for its forceful defense of free speech and constitutional rights generally as being placed "beyond the reach of majorities and officials."


Link


Below is the decision of the Court (also per Wikipedia):


The Court held, in a 6-to-3 decision delivered by Justice Jackson, that it was unconstitutional for public schools to compel students to salute the flag. It thus overruled its decision in Minersville School District v. Gobitis, finding that the flag salute was "a form of utterance" and "a primitive but effective means of communicating ideas."

"Compulsory unification of opinion," the Court wrote, was doomed to failure and was antithetical to the values set forth in the First Amendment. The Court eloquently stated: "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein." To underscore its decision, the Supreme Court announced it on Flag Day.


Players affected by Trump's efforts to compel them to stand for the National Anthem may have cause to file a civil lawsuit, under 42 U.S.C. § 1983, naming Trump in his individual capacity.


42 U.S.C. § 1983 provides:
Every person who under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, Suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.


AND:


Individual employees of federal, state and local government may be sued in their individual capacities for damages, declaratory or injunctive relief.

Link

Trump is entitled to voice his opinion, but he is not entitled to use his position, as POTUS, to suggest players be punished or compelled to stand during the National Anthem.

I am surprised to see so many people take Trump's side on this.

The players and people openly standing up to Trump, by kneeling, are HEROES -- regardless of whether or not people agree with their original protest cause or not.

The fact is, people kneeling now, are protesting Trump's overreach and his attempt to deprive people of their Constitutionally protected rights. I am on board with that and would kneel in protest myself.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: IRexxx

You get to chose to be offended.

The soldiers allegedly feeling this have said otherwise. Including that guy who stood in the tunnel.

Free speech is tough stuff.

Just don't watch the game. Let's see how many people follow.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Heh. Just what Donald needs. More legal issues.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Really wish you would answer this.

Say you find yourself in another country at a sporting event and they play their national anthem. are you going to stand? If so why?

Probably. Because I don't want to start a fight.


Would you and stand and I am 100% sure you would and why? Is it because you respect their flag so much or is it because you just dont want to be disrespectful to the people that do?

This isn't about foreigners and the flag. It is about American citizens and the flag. Not the same comparison and as I said, I'd do it more out of not wanting to start any issues with the locals than anything. It's not like I believe in their flag or respect it or anything. It's just the polite thing to do when I'm not in my home country.


So you respect those people and would not want to be disrespectful. Thanks for proving my point.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: RomeByFire




What you meant to say is "sporting events have no place for politics.... unless they're my flavor of politics!"


No, what I said is what I meant. Statement was pretty forward and accurate. No politics.

I do not believe the National Anthem is political. It symbolically describes or represents the country, nation or people, RESPECT, and respect has been dwindling away for years.

The national anthem in the NFL has never been considered out of place because it isn't out of place, (been doing it for a long time!)

Just like the statues... never really was a public issue before, and now... it's conveniently an issue.

Crybabies with the lack of respect.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Heh. Just what Donald needs. More legal issues.


Considering he took an Oath to uphold the Constitution, such a lawsuit -- if successful -- could and probably would be grounds for impeachment.

This is a lawsuit he doesn't want, at all.


edit on 9/25/2017 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: notsure1

It's OK you can read the comments made by the owners and see if they supported the president's comments....

What about whole teams that didn't even take the field.

Those donations gone missing will hurt.


Im not talking about Trumps comment which BTW I think were stupid and moronic and not his place.

Im talking about having respect for people that hold that flag dear.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: Krazysh0t




Controversial protests are the best kind because it gets people talking about the issue. They aren't meant to unite. They are meant to spur discussion and action.

But the flag is meant to unite it says so right in the pledge"indivisible". people are such morons.

The pledge? You mean the Socialist Pledge where you pledge mindless obedience to the government? The pledge is probably the least patriotic thing we've slapped the name "patriotic" on, and I say that as a supporter of Socialist policies.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: notsure1

Well going beyond "I wish they would do something g different to address the issue"

Is hysterical. That is what I have heard people say at ft. bragg not hysterical over played nationalism.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx
can you imagine if Obama called those tea-party protesters "sons-of-bitches" in a public speech on TV?....


He would just target them with the IRS.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

I wouldn't get too hopeful on that account, but you are right that it would put him in a rather tricky situation. Yet again he is sticking his foot in his mouth valuing his ability to say want he wants over acknowledging that his words aren't his own anymore. They are the country's.



posted on Sep, 25 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Didn't Jeff sessions just let then all walk.....hmmm.



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