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Kneeling during the anthem is honoring what our founding fathers fought for

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posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:41 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Gryphon66

Personally I thought kap was a naive hipster but I understood I never walked in his shoes...

When the president of the US weighed in as the president that made me more prone to support people speaking out and being silence by authority.

America unified is people unified not all facing a direction towards an object.


I'm a jaded individual. I usually believe the worst about people until proven different.

Kaep wasn't the issue here though. Even Trump wasn't the issue, as I have come to accept that international embarrassment by our President will be the standard course for some time.

To me, it is the hypocrisy shown here over reverence of the flag and the national anthem coupled with the tacit negation of our natural rights that are also encoded in those symbols that raise my ire.



im in the same boat. the whole hypocrisy in picking that moment to have that protest is what has always irked me. the whole blaming trump deal cracks me up aswell, as if this hasent been an issue for far longer then hes been president, or even ran for the office




posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Okay. Check on not kneeling. What else could you do to help bring attention to the problem of MEN being discriminated against?

The flag and anthem should be respected as symbols of all of us. I find the idea of a man taking a knee far less disrepectful than folks standing at the concession stands or in the bathroom lines during the National Anthem.

Activism always alienates some people who are recalcitrant in their positions. Activists understand this; most believe that getting the message out there is the most important thing.

Stating that systematic racism exists is not the same as saying that the (entire) country is systematically racist, IMO.

I think you may be wrong in your estimate of others interested in your quest to right injustices against men. There are many "mens rights" groups that are forming and growing. You have more allies than you think! Blacks, women, LGBT folks all found the same thing to be true.


But thats the problem; I don't want to be a [insert catergory] group. This is divisive.

Protesting policy actions is fine. As soon as we serpeate it into, this group is for brutality against balcks, this for it against men, this againt transgenders, etc. then the whole point is lost. How about just being against ALL bad policing.

Let me remind you of what Kaepernick said.


"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."


The COUNTRY oppresses black people. Its not there are some bad cops, there is no nuance discussion of police interaction.

So now, other groups that may have otherwise supported his protest for poor treaatment by law enforcement are left out.

I would never make the claim that the country oppresses men, I would say law enforcement practices seem to be unfairly hasrh on men.

I wouldn't claim it was because of misandry, i would want to raise awareness and have a dialogue with law enforcement people. By starting under the assumption they were man haters, and the country oppresses men, what reasonable dialogue could I have?

It would be much better to just say "We need to take a look at law enforcement mistakes and situations that are occurring" than to separate by individual groups.

As far as others, I am not holding my breath that a serious discussion about gender disparity in law enforcement will happen any time soon, but I will try to inform people in a polite manner about the issue, as I will continue to do about things such as bigotry and racism.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:48 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

How old was Colin at the time?

Why do blacks go to jail more for the same crime...

Meaning same evidence different sentence?
edit on 26-9-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:49 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

So you're happy that the President of the United States "trolled" the NFL, etc.?

He successfully caused emotional reactions and distress on the part of some Americans? Antagonizing athletes and their supporters?

This is what you think the PRESIDENT of the US and nominal leader of the free world should be doing?

Wow, so to you, he's the Troller in Chief?

Jesus Christ.


Good point. But what if they needed trolling..?

It's been said that a perfect gentleman never hurts another person's feelings, unintentionally. Now while I certainly wouldn't call Donald Trump the perfect gentleman, it's quite possible that in this matter he's correct and is on the right side of the debate but just framed it in an unfortunate manner because it involves a lot of white owners and black players, but that he did NOT say anything about race whatsoever, and if it was only about honoring the flag during the national anthem, means that their racist accusations and display or protest of "unity" itself involves the racial undertones and the playing to politics on the field, yet still more.

I think the whole thing was fomented by leftists and media and celebrity "establishment" and BLM activists as a way to get back at Trump and to try to undermine his leadership, which is simply saying, hey, when you're on the field, before the game, you should have to stand for the national anthem. A rule, just like every other rule they abide by.

You can't have half the NFL disrespecting the American flag because they can, or can you..?! Absurd.

Next up they'll start doing it at the Olympics.

At a fundamental level, it's an attack on American warriors, even those in formation, which is kind of ironic, don't ya think?

edit on 26-9-2017 by AnkhMorpork because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:54 PM
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I like how the Jags kneeled for the US anthem but stood for the UK anthem.

That was nice, wasn't it?

They respect that country more than their own.

Trump should pull their passports and leave them there.

lol.










posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:55 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

How old was Colin at the time?

Why do blacks go to jail more for the same crime...

Meaning same evidence different sentence?


thats where things can get interesting. as the public we have very little access to the hard data. alot of people have juvenile records that u wont ever see but could be brought back up in court for crimes later. ive done quite abit of research on this in the past and at the time i couldnt come to any firm conclusion with the information out there. there were contradictory statistics so i couldnt really trust any of that information. one thing i did take away from it is that police tend to always get the benefit of the doubt, paid leave while under review, and ultimately seem to get a slap on the wrist months or years down the line when most people have completely forgotten about whatever crime or incident they were involved in
edit on 26-9-2017 by TheScale because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: burgerbuddy

Yeah!!

And lots of other cool dictator stuff!!



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:56 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

So it would suck as a black combat vet to come home and have a shell shocked cop go nuts on you?

It has been proven blacks are more likely to go to jail for the same crime as whites. Greatly so. And mote likely to be falsely acused...

The defense from police union apologists is that blacks are just that much worse and thus perceived more dangerous.






I am willing to read studies on that.

The truth is blacks make up 13% of the population but commit around 50% of homicides and other violent crimes.

This does not mean that blacks are more dangerous or worse people; I believe it is because they live in some of the worst neighborhoods. I am a fairly law abiding person, and if I grew up in inner city Baltimore or somewhere like that, I would have definitely fell into crime and probably violence.

There are many factors that may have led to the conditions of these neighborhoods, including racism, culture, poverty, income disparity, single parent households, inferior schools, easier access to drugs, etc.

So this violence in those particular neighborhoods must be taken into effect when discussing police shootings.

Now does this give justification for harsher sentences or such things; absolutely not! That is a totally separate issue.

But the majority of the protests seem to be about shootings. Just saying racism and leaving it at that stops a dialogue that could start to solve the problem.

And again, the fact that this disparity between white and black is 6 TIMES WORSE when discussing the disparity between men and women, and the fact that not many people are talking about that, makes it seem like the isssue of arrest and sentencing disparities is not being taken seriously.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:57 PM
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Well... I'll be surprised if anyone even reads this comment... BUT...

...I think POTUS really stepped in it on this one. I was one of the folks greatly relieved when Hillary was NOT the President Elect. (Understatement).

And... I don't agree with Colin K's original premise, nor the pile ons which have happened recently.

However... the OP is S P O T O N!!!!

I think AntiFa belongs in jail, for responding to speech they don't like with violence. Period... end of story on AntiFa.

But I also think conservatives need to pop their heads out of their asses, and decide which of the Bill of Rights they are going to continue to agree with and support... or they should just STFU. (FWIW... I am VERY conservative... and damn serious about The Constitution, being the basic Rule of Law LITERALLY.

I don't have to like the speech of others... in fact I can detest it, or even find some protestors at times to be dirt bags... but I'll be damned if I'll agree we should trample any Americans rights because I don't like what they are saying.

I may look you in the face and tell you I think you are a piece of s**t for what you are doing or saying in the way of your "speech"... but I will turn away from you to defend your right to have it, till my last damn breath.

People are going to do and say things you don't like. WELCOME TO AMERICA!!! You have every right to be offended... and say something about it. And "they" have every right to tell you to stuff it.

Folks need to grow up and understand, you either support freedom, or you do not. If you don't... then maybe you would be more comfortable somewhere that The State punishes people for saying things "the authorities" don't think they should.

I would suggest China... and if there's too much freedom for your taste there, than you could just defect to North Korea. What folks say is VERY closely monitored there...

END OF RANT



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:57 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

How old was Colin at the time?

Why do blacks go to jail more for the same crime...

Meaning same evidence different sentence?



Old enough to make millions in a year or do you think he said that while he was making "fries with that"?

Priors would be my guess.

Ignoring double jeopardy?

"i already was arrested for that last year, you can't arrest me again!"


edit on 9 26 2017 by burgerbuddy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: TheScale

It's not a mystery to me.

Unions.

80 percent in bad physical fitness

60 percent can't shoot

Tactical awareness...bad

Iq caps in some states

Terrible pay for the risk.

Dept corruption.

If you support good cops you have to know they are in a tough spot.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:02 PM
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a reply to: burgerbuddy

Lol,

I have read that script that was torn up.

How about mandatory mins

asset forfeiture?



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

Is it? Or are there other bigot like quotes from trump.

Do black motivational speakers talk about it?

Is ending the war on poverty something Alabama could do and people survive?


How much federal money do red states need for their operating budgets in the south?


He was called racist for discussing inner city crime.

The bottom two questions are good, but perhaps for another thread.

The point is that one can be sympathetic to inner city black communities and really want to make their situation better, but have vastly different solutions on how to do that.

It is unfortunate that some people chose to label solutions that run counter to their own as racist.


Rand Paul seems to find a way.

You know the Crack pot ruining the party as the conservative media plays it.


His dad was called a racist for being published in a magazine that some other guy who was apparently racist also was.

He was my all time favorite politician. I really like Rand too.

Here are some articles about Rand Paul being a racist.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

billmoyers.com...

www.yahoo.com...

nymag.com...

www.salon.com...

And here are many, many more.

Are you staring to notice a pattern?



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:05 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Lol no because I don't live and die by fox or msnbc.

Maybe you should stop rehearsing their scripts.

Should I present all the fox associates that ripped him for not signing the crap Healthcare bill? Or do you admit the media is bs and you need to think for yourself.

Do you honestly hear a party narrative with my speach? I don't like it either that doesn't mean the opposite is better.

Why are Rand Paul and Kamala Harris teaming up on a bill?

Cory Booker, Rand Paul push to overhaul criminal justice system

Rand Paul and Cory Booker push bipartisan effort to limit solitary confinement for juveniles



edit on 26-9-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:16 PM
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originally posted by: dasman888
Well... I'll be surprised if anyone even reads this comment... BUT...

...I think POTUS really stepped in it on this one. I was one of the folks greatly relieved when Hillary was NOT the President Elect. (Understatement).

And... I don't agree with Colin K's original premise, nor the pile ons which have happened recently.

However... the OP is S P O T O N!!!!

I think AntiFa belongs in jail, for responding to speech they don't like with violence. Period... end of story on AntiFa.

But I also think conservatives need to pop their heads out of their asses, and decide which of the Bill of Rights they are going to continue to agree with and support... or they should just STFU. (FWIW... I am VERY conservative... and damn serious about The Constitution, being the basic Rule of Law LITERALLY.

I don't have to like the speech of others... in fact I can detest it, or even find some protestors at times to be dirt bags... but I'll be damned if I'll agree we should trample any Americans rights because I don't like what they are saying.

I may look you in the face and tell you I think you are a piece of s**t for what you are doing or saying in the way of your "speech"... but I will turn away from you to defend your right to have it, till my last damn breath.

People are going to do and say things you don't like. WELCOME TO AMERICA!!! You have every right to be offended... and say something about it. And "they" have every right to tell you to stuff it.

Folks need to grow up and understand, you either support freedom, or you do not. If you don't... then maybe you would be more comfortable somewhere that The State punishes people for saying things "the authorities" don't think they should.

I would suggest China... and if there's too much freedom for your taste there, than you could just defect to North Korea. What folks say is VERY closely monitored there...

END OF RANT


so that was a bunch of pointless drivel that doesnt even identify your problem and quite frankly by the last couple paragraphs completely contradicts whatever point you were trying to make in that rant. you say the president stepped in it, how? he has not promoted anything that takes away freedoms. hes encouraged people to exercise their rights if they dont like something. nothing wrong with that its not like hes passing laws and forcing us to buy a product and punishing us if we dont. i myself find the op's premise completely wrong. its not honoring the founding fathers and what they fought for, its just exercising the rights they fought for. most dont have any problem with the protest itself, but when u choose to do it during the national anthem which stands for the very things your supposedly fighting for then people will be offended, mainly people who are simply proud americans. so while its fine to exercise that right and i will stand up for your right to do it, i will still call u a moron when u do moronic stuff, like disrespecting the national anthem which supports the very things your supposedly fighting for.
edit on 26-9-2017 by TheScale because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:17 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

Lol no because I don't live and die by fox or msnbc.

Maybe you should stop rehearsing their scripts.

Should I present all the fox associates that ripped him for not signing the crap Healthcare bill? Or do you admit the media is bs and you need to think for yourself.

Do you honestly hear a party narrative with my speach? I don't like it either that doesn't mean the opposite is better.


Of course I am not accusing you of a party speech.

Its a shame you are accusing me of rehearsing MSM scripts.

I am pointing out that people like Rand Paul who apparently me and you like are called racist, when clearly he isn't.

I am not suggesting an opposite. I am saying that people could have vastly different solutions to racial problems, but it is unfortunate that not following one scipt can lead to charges of racism.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:22 PM
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originally posted by: Fools
I served as well, I do find it disrespectful. If you served so a bunch of communist crybabies could take over this country, then I am not too sure why you served.

As much as you respect their right to do it, I respect everyone elses right to see it for what it is.


If you served for a piece of cloth and a song, perhaps you should be questioning why you even bothered. Being an American isnt about how ferverently you can say the Pledge of Alligence or how stiff you can keep your body the duration of a song. It is about being commited to a specific set of ideas, a set of ideas so lofty we have not in 200plus years managed to see them fully achieved.

These players protests are pointing out exactly that. If anything I am truly shocked that there are people in this country that can stomach the thought that the commander in chief is a draft dodger that was too afraid to serve himself but is completely comfortable saying someone else is doing is unpatriotic.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:27 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: burgerbuddy

Lol,

I have read that script that was torn up.

How about mandatory mins

asset forfeiture?




We talking just drugs, right?

I think, mand mins should be used for big fish, same with forfeiture.
Play big, lose big.

Even then, mins should be min, aka time in jail and a record. Extenuating circumstances should add more time.
Weapons involved, other crimes connected with it, importing/exporting, manufacturing, etc.

Consider the diff between a key of weed and a key of blow. or an oz or each.

I'm for legalization of weed or at least a misdemeanor for possession under a certain amount without a lic to distribute.

Hell, you need a lic to sell food, some places you can be arrested for giving it away.

It comes down to fair and just laws.










posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: KeliOnyx

originally posted by: Fools
I served as well, I do find it disrespectful. If you served so a bunch of communist crybabies could take over this country, then I am not too sure why you served.

As much as you respect their right to do it, I respect everyone elses right to see it for what it is.


If you served for a piece of cloth and a song, perhaps you should be questioning why you even bothered. Being an American isnt about how ferverently you can say the Pledge of Alligence or how stiff you can keep your body the duration of a song. It is about being commited to a specific set of ideas, a set of ideas so lofty we have not in 200plus years managed to see them fully achieved.

These players protests are pointing out exactly that. If anything I am truly shocked that there are people in this country that can stomach the thought that the commander in chief is a draft dodger that was too afraid to serve himself but is completely comfortable saying someone else is doing is unpatriotic.



If they won't take you, you can't be a dodger.




posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 11:33 PM
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originally posted by: KeliOnyx

originally posted by: Fools
I served as well, I do find it disrespectful. If you served so a bunch of communist crybabies could take over this country, then I am not too sure why you served.

As much as you respect their right to do it, I respect everyone elses right to see it for what it is.


If you served for a piece of cloth and a song, perhaps you should be questioning why you even bothered. Being an American isnt about how ferverently you can say the Pledge of Alligence or how stiff you can keep your body the duration of a song. It is about being commited to a specific set of ideas, a set of ideas so lofty we have not in 200plus years managed to see them fully achieved.

These players protests are pointing out exactly that. If anything I am truly shocked that there are people in this country that can stomach the thought that the commander in chief is a draft dodger that was too afraid to serve himself but is completely comfortable saying someone else is doing is unpatriotic.


You are so NOT shocked. Nice try.




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