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Kneeling during the anthem is honoring what our founding fathers fought for

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posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:12 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

By who? The media?


And some folks on the left.

For example, ending subsidies for single mothers, a staple of the war on poverty that has led to huge amounts of single parent households, is co,disered racist.

As is ending other welfare policies that I believe seek to keep some blacks dependant on the government.

Heck, trump was called racist by all sorts of people for even mentioning he wanted to solve crime in these neighborhoods.


It's hard to respond to this. I feel like you can do better.

Trump was called a racist by who for what?

It's irelevant. He is a politician.

The people waiting for the messiah to come every 4 years......

Go home he ain't coming.

It's congress silly?

It's your town selectman....

Stop letting them wag the dog!!!




posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:12 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

Yet those listening to this who have pulled themselves out of the gutter and may be a little mis led at 25 years old, the first real education with maintenence being college, protesting a real thing are getting hammered with close to zero empathy.

The heart of the protest has nothing to do with flags.


Zero empathy? Are you kidding?

Turn on your tv to just about any channel. Open just about any newspaper. Check out any celebrities twitter feed. Its all empathy for these protestors!

The quote you posted was about not being a victim, and living up to potential. That seems to be the opposite of what many are suggesting with some of the black community.

They are held back by systemic racism, Jim crow, slavery, bad police, poverty, racist presidents, drugs, poor schooling, test geared to white people, language geared toward whites, and so forth.

The black people that grew up in terrible neighborhoods and went on to achieve are greater americans than I will ever be; regardless of my thoughts on their protests or politics.

They had a tenacity and drive that got them out of a desperate situation, and I wish i had one tenth of that.

But I dont see how these protests blaming institutional racism help that.

I feel they are right to want to have a discussion, but claiming that cops are targeted blacks to shoot just doesn't seem like a fare position to start from.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: face23785

When did racism stop in the United States?


We will never purge humanity of racism, but it is neither systemic nor rampant in the USA.


Interesting claim.


You do know what 'systemic' and 'rampant' mean, right? Not hyperbolic.


I know the standard definitions of the words, yes. Did you have more to offer on your interesting claim?


I don't need to 'offer' anything. If you believe the USA is a racist country that is your problem, not mine.


Well, you don't have to get snippy. You seem to be trying to engage with me; I asked you if you had anything to say aside from your interesting claim. It seems you don't.

You don't know what I believe, nor have you ever shown any interest in finding out; your comment is superfluous.


So your rebuttal is vapid. Fair enough.


I haven't made any rebuttal (do you understand what the word means?); you made a claim with no evidence. I agreed that it's an interesting claim. Should you choose to offer some evidence that is not merely opinion-based, I'll be glad to consider it, since it seems so important to you.




posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

You don't see how the protests help because you don't see a problem.

As a grappling expert. I personally teach with a law enforcement officer high school wrestling. We also have been training partners in bjj for 5 years. He completely agrees police unions and bad screening and physical fitness standards has destroyed policing.

Police are not equipt, paid, supported, or trained to deal with the heaping load of crap society has thrown at them and stuff is going south.

The loop of public distrust and police distrust is a bad thing.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

That is not one of the things I fought for so don't deflect this into some philosophical BS about why or what a professional soldier serves for. Believe me...I didn't do what I did because I was fighting to defend some overpaid ass clown's right to be a dick on game day instead of actually doing something of substance to raise awareness.

Read my post again. It's about picking the appropriate time to protest. I referenced multiple times I am not opposing or impinging upon anyone's right to protest.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:18 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

"This one goes to Trump" ... are you saying the President "won"?

What did he win?


Yes. He successfully trolled the NFL, the MSM and the whole Soros-funded and establishment supported, leftist, BLM, anti-Trump maniacs.

They went bat# crazy.

He did clarify by saying fired OR suspended.

It's on the field, not afterwards.

They appear to have fallen straight into the trap.

He punk'd them, by setting them up to punk themselves.

Greatest trolling effort in history, or one of them I'd have to say.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Not only that, but I've recently learned how POORLY LEOs are paid.

Starting salary in the ATLANTA area is around $32K a year.

That's absurd.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:19 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

By who? The media?


And some folks on the left.

For example, ending subsidies for single mothers, a staple of the war on poverty that has led to huge amounts of single parent households, is co,disered racist.

As is ending other welfare policies that I believe seek to keep some blacks dependant on the government.

Heck, trump was called racist by all sorts of people for even mentioning he wanted to solve crime in these neighborhoods.


It's hard to respond to this. I feel like you can do better.

Trump was called a racist by who for what?

It's irelevant. He is a politician.

The people waiting for the messiah to come every 4 years......

Go home he ain't coming.

It's congress silly?

It's your town selectman....

Stop letting them wag the dog!!!


www.teenvogue.com...

medium.com...@ManyVoicesOrg/trumps-racist-attacks-on-inner-cities-a6bceddbec98

newrepublic.com...

nymag.com...

www.washingtonpost.com... -havent-evolved/?utm_term=.bc90db5d2945

thinkprogress.org...

qz.com...

I could go on and on and on with articles and examples of people saying Trump discussing bad inner cities is racist.

And this tactic isn't just used on Trump; I have personally been told that as a white person discussing inner city crime (even wanting to solve it) makes me a racist.

You posted LBJ's quote.

Why is wanting to end the polices of the war on poverty meant with claims of racism?



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: AnkhMorpork

So you're happy that the President of the United States "trolled" the NFL, etc.?

He successfully caused emotional reactions and distress on the part of some Americans? Antagonizing athletes and their supporters?

This is what you think the PRESIDENT of the US and nominal leader of the free world should be doing?

Wow, so to you, he's the Troller in Chief?

Jesus Christ.
edit on 26-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Is it? Or are there other bigot like quotes from trump.

Do black motivational speakers talk about it?

Is ending the war on poverty something Alabama could do and people survive?


How much federal money do red states need for their operating budgets in the south?

edit on 26-9-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:27 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

We all tend to focus on groups that we identify with Grambler. You know that as well as I do.

These protestors ARE talking about the same thing that concerns you ... Black MEN are being discriminated against! I haven't seen any protestors saying that ONLY Black men are targeted, have you ?

So, since you see this problem, what are you going to do about it? You'll be standing with the protesters I'm sure, as you see that the disparity in numbers of Black men OBVIOUSLY points to discrimination ... you just want to add in all other men, right?



I will not be kneeling with the protestors.

One, I am not in a position to do so.

Second, I chose to think that the flag and the anthem should be stood for (my opinion that I am not forcing on others)

Third, I think that it is a strategic blunder, and makes enemies out of people that would otherwise be receptive to their message.

I alos do not believe like some of them that this country is systemically racist.

I will however not only defend their right to protest, but also listen and try my best to not only make the neighborhoods they are discussing better places, but try to be a person who will try to bridge the gap between law enforcement and the black community; seeing as how I am involved in neither.

I also will continue to fight racism when i see it; not with violence unless in an extreme instance, but with polite words and logic. I find that almost all racism is out of ignorance, and you have a much better chance of getting through to someone by being polite and logical than antagonistic when possible.

But I think that you will find that it will be much harder for me to find allies in the bigger disparity of men that are targeted; people seeking to bring up mens issues are not only not given a voice in pop culture, they are routinely mocked, and often demonized as the real problem.




edit on 26-9-2017 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:27 PM
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posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:31 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

You don't see how the protests help because you don't see a problem.

As a grappling expert. I personally teach with a law enforcement officer high school wrestling. We also have been training partners in bjj for 5 years. He completely agrees police unions and bad screening and physical fitness standards has destroyed policing.

Police are not equipt, paid, supported, or trained to deal with the heaping load of crap society has thrown at them and stuff is going south.

The loop of public distrust and police distrust is a bad thing.


Of course I see that as a problem.

Did your officer friend also say that police are targeting black men to execute?

I think there are all sorts of problems with police; some of it there fault, most of it not.

For example, they have ZERO effective training on how to deal with mental health issues. They are put in terrible spots where they are perceived as the enemy by the local population, and as such they get resentful.

They have a code of silence that is detrimental to having positive relationships with the communities they serve.

They are asked to enforce often crappy laws, and get blamed for it.

Many are not psychologically or physically equipped to handle the stress of the job.

And so forth.

nd I am not saying their isn't reason for the black community to be angry.

But saying its all about racism, and the flag represents a racist country that doesn't care for blacks is t not helpful in finding real solutions to me.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Okay. Check on not kneeling. What else could you do to help bring attention to the problem of MEN being discriminated against?

The flag and anthem should be respected as symbols of all of us. I find the idea of a man taking a knee far less disrepectful than folks standing at the concession stands or in the bathroom lines during the National Anthem.

Activism always alienates some people who are recalcitrant in their positions. Activists understand this; most believe that getting the message out there is the most important thing.

Stating that systematic racism exists is not the same as saying that the (entire) country is systematically racist, IMO.

I think you may be wrong in your estimate of others interested in your quest to right injustices against men. There are many "mens rights" groups that are forming and growing. You have more allies than you think! Blacks, women, LGBT folks all found the same thing to be true.
edit on 26-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Personally I thought kap was a naive hipster but I understood I never walked in his shoes...

When the president of the US weighed in as the president that made me more prone to support people speaking out and being silence by authority.

America unified is people unified not all facing a direction towards an object.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:36 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

Is it? Or are there other bigot like quotes from trump.

Do black motivational speakers talk about it?

Is ending the war on poverty something Alabama could do and people survive?


How much federal money do red states need for their operating budgets in the south?


He was called racist for discussing inner city crime.

The bottom two questions are good, but perhaps for another thread.

The point is that one can be sympathetic to inner city black communities and really want to make their situation better, but have vastly different solutions on how to do that.

It is unfortunate that some people chose to label solutions that run counter to their own as racist.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:36 PM
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Great job OP! That is what is great about America! While I don't agree with their actions I will respect their rights to protest peacefully like you had stated. Some will disagree with me about that and that is perfectly fine...I'll respect that opinion as well.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

So it would suck as a black combat vet to come home and have a shell shocked cop go nuts on you?

It has been proven blacks are more likely to go to jail for the same crime as whites. Greatly so. And mote likely to be falsely acused...

The defense from police union apologists is that blacks are just that much worse and thus perceived more dangerous.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Gryphon66

Personally I thought kap was a naive hipster but I understood I never walked in his shoes...

When the president of the US weighed in as the president that made me more prone to support people speaking out and being silence by authority.

America unified is people unified not all facing a direction towards an object.


I'm a jaded individual. I usually believe the worst about people until proven different.

Kaep wasn't the issue here though. Even Trump wasn't the issue, as I have come to accept that international embarrassment by our President will be the standard course for some time.

To me, it is the hypocrisy shown here over reverence of the flag and the national anthem coupled with the tacit negation of our natural rights that are also encoded in those symbols that raise my ire.



posted on Sep, 26 2017 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Grambler

Is it? Or are there other bigot like quotes from trump.

Do black motivational speakers talk about it?

Is ending the war on poverty something Alabama could do and people survive?


How much federal money do red states need for their operating budgets in the south?


He was called racist for discussing inner city crime.

The bottom two questions are good, but perhaps for another thread.

The point is that one can be sympathetic to inner city black communities and really want to make their situation better, but have vastly different solutions on how to do that.

It is unfortunate that some people chose to label solutions that run counter to their own as racist.


Rand Paul seems to find a way.

You know the Crack pot ruining the party as the conservative media plays it.




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