Trump NFL Anthem Free Speech Protest and Willful Ignorance

a reply to: notsure1

If you look closely, there are people seated in both. Did you expect every single person in attendance to be seated or something? Canadians are certainly more stringent about the code of etiquette, but I doubt they're going to go ballistic on anyone who doesn't stand.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: notsure1

If you look closely, there are people seated in both. Did you expect every single person in attendance to be seated or something? Canadians are certainly more stringent about the code of etiquette, but I doubt they're going to go ballistic on anyone who doesn't stand.

OK......... It is disrespectful you dont have to think so because of your stance on BLM or Trump or whatever but it is.

We stand for the anthem out of respect otherwise why even have it why even bother?

Its out of respect so when you sit it is disrespectful. Like it or not you are being disrespectful.

a reply to: notsure1

Uh...

So?? He is still protesting our flag/anthem/country..

Factually incorrect. He is protesting the fact that equal treatment under the law, regardless of social position, race, colour or creed, are figments of the imagination, more than they are real concepts which have positive effects on outcomes for people in his country. He is NOT protesting the flag, or the anthem. He just refuses to acknowledge those things, until what they are supposed to stand for, is actually the case, which could not be more legitimate.

There is alot of ways to protest Kali you dont have to disrespect our flag anthem.

Its very dear to our hearts.

Which is a problem, and a big one. You seem to be suggesting that you love your flag and your anthem, more than you do the concepts they are supposed to represent, or the people who are supposed to be, as part of the nation those things represent, freer than they would be in other locations, better represented by their governance, better supported by their fellows.

There is nothing wrong with respecting your country, but fetishising either a piece of cloth or a song, to the point where you cannot see the actual intent of a protest, such is your ire... that is not only illogical, but is damaging to the very country that the flag and the anthem you so adore, represent.

a reply to: TrueBrit

What you said is spot on.

Its kind of sad that people who are offended by the protest can't see it. The flag and so g are honestly not important the meaning behind them is.

Lets look at the anthem, first let's be honest we don't even sing all of it, that's kind of disrespectful in its own right as we are to lazy to sing four total verses.... But I digress

It was officially adopted as our national anthem on march 4th of 1931 and written as a poem not a song... In September of 1814 originally titled "Defence of Fort M'Henry. So before we get all worked up let's realize this is just a poem set to a British tune that wasn't even recognized as much more than a battle hymn 100 year's ago...

a reply to: crimsongod21

It is a constant source of frustration to me, that indoctrination is considered equal to love and loyalty.

I love my country, and I am loyal to its people, but that does not mean that I am prepared to ignore the great wrongs done in its name over the centuries, nor their unavoidable consequences now, nor the things that my nation STILL does which cause trouble world wide.

It is precisely because I love my country and the people who live in it, that I am determined to be vocal about getting things moved forward, eradicating ignorance, ejecting fascistic mindsets from the conversation and the national mindset with all possible haste (since they have been responsible for a great deal of the things I am less than proud of, about my nations history), and bringing awareness of the wrongdoing of our government, to the attention of our people.

Patriotism is not blind love. Patriotism is not a willingness to accept indoctrination.

True patriots do not turn everything into an attack on their country. They instead ensure that their country is beyond reproach, and if it is not, they raise hell until it is.

originally posted by: Kali74
agree the justice system needs to be fixed specifically because of the disproportionate amount of broken that falls on minorities.

They commit a disproportionate amount of crime. What people like you seem to be saying is that they should live under a different set of rules. This is why people dont support this "protest". Its just another deflection of responsibility and reality in favor of left wing propaganda.

originally posted by: fiverx313
if protesting didn't get somebody upset, nobody would pay attention.

that's kind of the point.

When the tea parties were protesting Obama, the media's non-stop message was that the tea party were racist terrorists. How about when that Christian football player kept kneeling to pray? I remember that being a controversy in the media too.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Kali74

A lot of people don't find it disrespectful though. What good is a flag or a song that is supposed to represent the ideals of a nation, ideals such as equality and liberty when that nation is not ensuring those ideals for everyone?

That's your unsupported claim though. Its not the truth. What the alt-left seem to want is special privileges and standards.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: crimsongod21

It is a constant source of frustration to me, that indoctrination is considered equal to love and loyalty.

I love my country, and I am loyal to its people, but that does not mean that I am prepared to ignore the great wrongs done in its name over the centuries, nor their unavoidable consequences now, nor the things that my nation STILL does which cause trouble world wide.

It is precisely because I love my country and the people who live in it, that I am determined to be vocal about getting things moved forward, eradicating ignorance, ejecting fascistic mindsets from the conversation and the national mindset with all possible haste (since they have been responsible for a great deal of the things I am less than proud of, about my nations history), and bringing awareness of the wrongdoing of our government, to the attention of our people.

Patriotism is not blind love. Patriotism is not a willingness to accept indoctrination.

True patriots do not turn everything into an attack on their country. They instead ensure that their country is beyond reproach, and if it is not, they raise hell until it is.

The problem is this protest is based on a far left lie that being used to advance a political agenda, not make the country better. This protest is further tearing the country apart...

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Factually incorrect. He is protesting the fact that equal treatment under the law, regardless of social position, race, colour or creed, are figments of the imagination, more than they are real concepts which have positive effects on outcomes for people in his country.

If your group is committing vastly more crime than other groups, then yes its going to appear that group is being treated unfairly. The irony here is that its YOU who wants them treated differently. You want their crimes to not be prosecuted and for them not to go to prison, but if I commit the same crime I do go to prison because I'm not the right color.

a reply to: Kali74

This is what the word "freedom" is all about! Can you imagine what would happen if athletes from North Korea would take a knee to protest Kim executing his own people? This is a clear example of a country that doesn't have freedom or gives their people the right to protest injustices. Trump continues to show his ignorance about the 1st amendment. He's
attacked freedom of the press and now he's attacking free expression to protest injustices. He's starting to sound more and more like a wanabee dictator.

I thought this poster couldn't of said it any better about these NFL players taking a knee in protest!

They died for our Country, and the FREEDOM it represents. The kneeling is a protest to that FREEDOM being stepped on by oppressors. You should be kneeling right there with them. I was in the Armed Forces myself, and I take NO OFFENSE AT ALL to those kneeling during the anthem.

Taking a knee to protest injustices IS NOT disrespecting those who fought and died for our freedom to do so!

originally posted by: WeRpeons
Taking a knee to protest injustices IS NOT disrespecting those who fought and died for our freedom to do so!

The "injustice" being that criminals committing crimes get arrested?

a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

What people like you seem to be saying, is that you do not want things to improve with the communities affected by poverty, because you refuse to accept that any culpability for the situation as it stands rests outside the communities so affected, despite the facts which indicate otherwise.

a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

The numbers do not lie.

But those you may be cherry picking to support your argument, are being taken out of context. A disproportionate number of innocent people, from one demographic are being shot dead, stopped and searched, denied basic services by businesses, based entirely not on their own conduct or their virtues as people, but on the colour of their skin.

That is an inescapable fact, and the only choice anyone has is whether they prefer to retreat into a comfortable lie, or whether they confront the truth of the matter with honesty, and some small measure of dignity.

The frankly limp, frightful response to reality that some on the right are having to the reality which surrounds them, the tendency to simply invent their own reality, despite having no right to do so, is one of the most utterly pathetic, intellectually invalid, and morally objectionable expressions of weakness, I have ever encountered in my researches into the human condition.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

What people like you seem to be saying, is that you do not want things to improve with the communities affected by poverty, because you refuse to accept that any culpability for the situation as it stands rests outside the communities so affected, despite the facts which indicate otherwise.

I fail to see how protesting the flag and police is going to fix that. How about protest the gangs or the drug dealers? How about take actual steps to fix your communities rather than fact-free protests that only serve to further divide people? There is ZERO discussion o crime rates in these communities in the main stream. Anyone who brings up those facts is instantly labeled a witch....errr Racist. THAT'S why people take issue with this protest.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

The numbers do not lie.

You're right, they don't.



The majority of crime is committed by 6% of the country (black male), the vast majority of homicide victims are black people, killed by other black people (at rates higher than any other group) and police shootings of unarmed black men is INCREDIBLY RARE. Even armed black men shot by cops is rare compared to the unending slaughter of black men by other black men. An issue that is straight up censored by the tyrannical left in this country.

But those you may be cherry picking to support your argument

That's what you're doing.

are being taken out of context. A disproportionate number of innocent people, from one demographic are being shot dead, stopped and searched, denied basic services by businesses, based entirely not on their own conduct or their virtues as people, but on the colour of their skin.

Yeah, mostly white people. I didn't say I disagreed there is a problem with police brutality. It;s a problem for us all though. Making it a racial issue divides people and unfocuses opposition to police brutality.

a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

No it isn't.

People take issue with this protest, because they have been lied to about the causes of gang violence, the main drivers of the drug trade, and who is to blame for disenfranchising entire demographics over successive generations, and rather than research the facts for themselves, have sunk into a comfortable, willful ignorance on the matter.

First:
The American government is responsible for the state of the drug trade today. Not the people, not the users, not the gangsters or the pushers, the government. Its support for worldwide narco terror outfits, as part of its efforts to damage socialist nations South of its border with Mexico, as well as oil producing regions which also have access to opiate sources, is a much more powerful driver for the drug trade than any street level thug and his cohort could ever be.

Second:
The American government is responsible for the state of communities affected by the drug trade, because rather than accepting responsibility for the damage drugs whose smuggling they have aided and abetted for decades, have done to communities, they prefer to set up a situation where friends of the government can make many billions of dollars, from the human cattle that the afflicted and addicted have become. Those absent fathers, arrested because they had a pitiful amount of a dangerous drug, or a pitiful amount of a harmless one for that matter, on them when stopped and searched, represent a huge profit to those running for profit prisons, a profit which lawmakers are actively encouraged to continue, by failing to improve recidivism by making better use of the law and their power to write it, than they do currently.

Third:
The American government and its corporate partners, are responsible for the state of peoples understanding of these matters, because for decades they have been operating a propaganda campaign against the very elements in society, who want to free people from that corporate detention, bring the truth about the drug trade to light, and improve both the law and the balance of its application. This campaign has been operative since right around the 1930s in one form or another, and operates regardless and independent of whichever particular administration is in office, as it is all part and parcel of the power of the MIC.

a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

If that is all you take away from an in depth analysis of the numerical data available, then your understanding of the material is faulty, and no one can help you with that, unless you want to go and do a numeracy course. Its even been explained to you in this very thread, but you still refuse to engage with what the statistics clearly point to, what the numbers clearly say.

Even if you cared about the truth, had any interest in justice or the just application of the law, with an understanding of the material so shallow, you cannot arrive at reasonable conclusions.

Just like the confederate statues, the left seems to be using this fake protest as a pretense for getting rid of the Anthem all together as another racist symbol. Just like they've began going after other US monuments as racist I think we all know it will eventually get to the flag.

a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

You sincerely don't think there's been a questionable use of lethal force by some police officers??? Case in point, the Minneapolis "white" women who was raped and unarmed who approached a police car for help was shot dead! She definitely wasn't a criminal and she was shot by a black officer.

Some police shootings are justified, but there's been way to many occasions where police officers have been too quick to use lethal force. Don't get me wrong, some of these criminals become confrontational which causes the situation to get out of hand. However, to deny there isn't racial tendencies in any work place just isn't being honest. If you don't think race doesn't come into play at times, than you're not being honest with the racial divide in some parts of today's society. I'm sure you know people as well as I who are or can be racist. Racism can be found on both sides of the racial divide.

One only has to google some of these cases to realize there's a problem. That's exactly the injustice they're protesting!

Thank you for writing a clear thread on this issue. I think it was going over the line for Trump to call on the NFL to fire its players for their political beliefs. Our troops fight for the right to protest the national anthem. The protestors have a valid message - they want to bring attention to the perceived social injustices against African-Americans in America.

While the protestors are trying to make America a better place, Trump is trying to make them look "unpatriotic." In reality, Trump is the one being unpatriotic by trying to take away their first amendment rights, and he is also being manipulative by counter-attacking their credibility because he does not like the message that America might still have work to do when it comes to combating racism (we have come a long ways, but there is always room for improvement).