You claim to want change, but you can't even turn off a football game?

a reply to: DeadElf

I have worked as a professional statistician (population modeling and analytics) most of my professional life. I'm 65. You have no idea what you are talking about. The null hypothesis in this example is that white and non-white have the same probability of being shot and killed by police. I modeled that with the marble example.

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: Galacticsun
a reply to: Lucidparadox

Lucid, yours is one of the better arguments I've heard in defense of this protest, and I could understand the argument if I agreed with the premise you build it on.. But from my personal observations I have not seen anything that would lead me to agree. What others see as "white privelage" I see as privelage from being respectful, privelage of being a person of integrity and intelligence, privelage of being a person of peace and respect, privelage of being a good and decent citizen who works to make his society and surroundings a better place. This privelage does not come from race or color but the content of one's character, and in my personal experience I've seen that any race or color has the ability to receive this privelage based on their character.

this is probably the truest post ive ever seen on here

how about the privilege of being generationally redlined into ghettoes and denied mortgages and loans, leaving you with an inability to grow your own wealth or pass it down to your children?

I built my own wealth. My dad had dirt floors for much of his childhood. But, both my parents worked hard on their marriage and despite me being a hellion they were able to provide a good moral compass.

Fix the family and you fix the black race. Mexican Americans don't have this problem. The Irish, not long after having rocks thrown at their heads upon arrival, put a man in the White House very quickly. Don't even get me started on Asians or Indians for that matter. Even most Muslims in America are generally successful save for the growing number of refugees.


The Blacks arent. They're really not that successful anywhere. I wonder if it's a racial thing in terms of the drive to huddle as a family. You'd think with the examples in history of families being ripped apart as slaves that they'd put extra special interest into the family.

The Black race in America needs a reformation inside itself, and they need to start working with the community instead of against it.

Bring Dad home and for Petes sake get married!

If my words are hard to hear then you should consider that your own emotional pain indicator, like a nerve, telling you that this hit home.

This is the hard road Blacks in America have not yet traveled but must overcome. I know I'm asking for a generational change, but nothing more will fix it.

Also, if Blacks could fix the family, they'd see a large population boost and could soon be a near shared majority.

There's really no downside to fixing the family for the Blacks. Name one, I dare you.

a reply to: jtma508

None of that makes any difference to me as for one I can't verify that.

Secondly if you are you really need to re-read your first reply to me because that makes no sense ( you said a random selection would not lead to a random outcome).

Thirdly I was trying to make the point that just because you can see that the numbers are unequal does not mean that you can draw a conclusion from it (a fact that if what you claim is true you would very much already know).

You cannot say that the numbers of white to non white shootings are unequal because of racism based off of a statistic. There seems to be far to much finding evidence to fit the narrative going on.

a reply to: fiverx313

The great thing about America is that you're always only a generation away from improving upon your situation. Otherwise we'd still have every other nationality that was discriminated against (Chinese, Japanese, Irish, etc) still living in ghettos, right? The Jews have been discriminayed against more than any other since such a thing was possible, and they've managed to do okay for themselves somehow. But it's way easier to just cry about it than actually do something, isn't it?
That being said, I don't disagree with the protest whatsoever. I wish they'd care a little more about their peers who beat women... but it's also easier to protest something that's not actually happening in your face. I haven't watched a single game since the Ray Rice embarrassment. In fact, I've never seen or heard a single player refuse to play with another player who beat his wife or girlfriend.

a reply to: dashen

We just dont give a shi on Sundays, all we wanna do is watch football not a protest.

And that's the problem.

originally posted by: notsure1
Im not done with football, But I am done with the NFL for now, I will watch college football still.

Unless they screw that up too.

Here, you said:

You can say you are not disrespecting the flag when you do this, BUT YOU ARE and a whole lot of people feel like you are.

So, kneeling is disrespectful towards the flag?

What about this?





US Flag Code

Outraged at college football?

Outraged at Nascar?



Yeeah....

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: Galacticsun
I'm someone who enjoys watching football, but with the cowardly stance that the NFL has taken allowing a platform for an anti-American, self hatred cultural change, I will temporarily and completely refrain from "anything" football until they get back to their senses. This to me is an easy decision, as no game compares to the respect that I have for the America I love and grew up with, and no athlete's talent is so great that I will overlook the message he is allowed to send on one of the greatest platforms in American society.. that platform being the one provided by professional sports.

It is incredibly disheartening to me to see even very patriotic and conservative people that I know, not even blink twice about their watching habits in the face of this controversy. I truly do believe that the vast majority of Americans, even so-called patriotic Americans, have been lulled to apathy by entertainment and comfort. If you can't even turn off a football game then how do you expect to send any meaningful message that will spur change?

To my liberal minded friends, I see you as Americans too and don't have an ounce of hate in my heart for anyone. To me this is not about hating anyone but creating the best America for future generations. Our country is divided on the vision we want for our country but when we are not trying to take over the steering wheel of where this country is going, we still have a lot in common. I have my insights into why I feel that the direction the liberal agenda wants to steer us down will lead to a long-term cultural suicide and severe weakening of our country.. But that's for another post.

Its quite obvious you dont understand the protest.

I dont mean that in a mean way either. I want to help you understand your neighbors.

I understand you. You have patriotic ideals you hold dear to your heart, you love your country.

I do too. I served for the U.S. Army myself... why? I did so because I care. I wanted to help protect this country and give back to it what it gave to me.

That being said I am still able to recognize that our country is not perfect.

My neighbors, and brothers are not all treated the same in our society, and it is a problem!




You know how in times of emergency our flag is flown upside-down? (an act that may seem disrespectful)

Or when there is a tragedy our flag is flown at half-mast?

THAT is what this is.

That is what so many people.. those who kneel, and those who support those protesting are trying to explain.

Kneeling during the anthem is a symbol that although our country is great, it is in distress. There is a tragedy occurring.

People are getting unjustly killed by those in power, by use of excessive force of the police departments in some communities. In addition to that, Rascism is still very real, we saw that in Charoloettesville. People are being discriminated against in multiple facets of life due to their race and socioeconomic backgrounds.

YOUR NEIGHBORS

It is not meant as a sign of disrespect, it is meant as a plea for help!


Yes these athletes are millionaires, and may no longer have to face as much adversity as they may have in the past... but that is exactly why they are doing it. They are kneeling for the men and women who DONT have a voice on a national stage.

This is what we want want you to hear, and understand!

Thats all great and a great post and we do understand the movement and what they are trying to bring awareness too.

We just dont give a shi on Sundays, all we wanna do is watch football not a protest.

I understand your concern.

However, how is it really any different than Breast Cancer Awareness Month where all the NFL teams wear pink?

Or when the NFL does awareness campaigns for Natural Disaster cleanup

Or when the NFL does hanti-human trafficking campaigns

Or what about NFL PLAY 60 collaboration with the United Way, wrking on instituting exercise in our childrens daily routines?

How is this no different?

How is it different????

Well, it's different because players don't kneel down during the National Anthem for any of these things you list!

That's how it's different!

a reply to: Galacticsun

I believe in the right to free speech. I also believe that even if I don't agree with it, it's still free speech.

If you want to protest by turning off your television and refraining from all things NFL, you have that right and I support that right.

As for me, I don't watch football anyways...hockey is way more interesting.

Well...I believe that I have about1,000 things more important to care about than what some dude in the NFL does. Some guy who makes 100x more than I do and lives in a nice house with nice cars who's able to pay off his debts...and probably got a free ride through school.

So while everyone worries about those guys, I'm gonna go back to work where I'm underpaid so I can try to make enough to pay the bills and hope I can pay a bit on my school loans this month.

#whoevencares ...hope I did that right...I'm not a twit who uses a Twitter to tweet those things.

a reply to: Galacticsun

If you are going to be upset about the flag and the NFL, you ought to be more upset about the penalty flags

Look at the Steelers, they have one lone guy standing while the others kneel, yet that can still play good football. It's the United States, we forget that unity is the ability to walk different paths and still work as a team.

originally posted by: jtma508
a reply to: DeadElf

I have worked as a professional statistician (population modeling and analytics) most of my professional life. I'm 65. You have no idea what you are talking about. The null hypothesis in this example is that white and non-white have the same probability of being shot and killed by police. I modeled that with the marble example.

only if your samples share the same existing conditions.

now we can go to the mid to late 90s to see stats of police interactions between blacks and white, we can look at the declaration of 'war on drugs' VS treating the mass opioid use as an 'illness' instead or any other conditions or factors to show a disparity in and actuality in the treatment of certain groups VS others.

the police admitted themselves blacks and minorities were targets. the conditions in the 90s went like that for so long because of lack of visual evidence against the police, now that phones with cameras are a commodity, we see things get less 'black and white' and require a second look.

I remember a documentary on the show 'Cops' where producers and cameramen gave the honest truth to what the purpose of that show was....

Posted here....
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and here
www.abovetopsecret.com...



Please add further comments to the ongoing discussions in the above linked threads.
Thanks

**Thread Closed**